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I'm still relatively new to the game and cannot find the answer to this anywhere, or at least can't find anything to suggest otherwise:

Can a Space Marines Drop Pod make a charge?
I get that it's a troop transport that slams into the ground to deploy marines and is not supposed to the go anywhere, and it has movement 0. By concept, it stays put.
And has no melee weapons so obviously can't fight.

But is there a rule to prevent it charging?

I can't see anywhere in any of its keywords that suggest it can't, the charge rule doesn't state that the unit needs a melee weapon to charge.

So can it?

Because if so, it's an enormous footprint to tie up enemy ranged units if it can get a charge off!

Please let me know if I've missed something, and I assume I must have done!

From the core rules section on “profiles”, under “datasheets”:

If a model has a Move of '-' it is unable to move at all

So is a charge not different to a move then?
I was under the impression they were regarded differently.

A bit like how a movement modifier doesn't affect the charge unless it explicitly says so.

Rules Commentary wrote:Charge Move: Move made in the Charge phase as part of a successful charge.

It is literally called a Charge move which as you see above is a type of move, like a Normal move.

Charge moves are not modified by modifiers to the Movement characteristic because it doesn't use the Movement characteristic. Instead, it is governed by the Charge roll, which is affected by modifiers to it.

MoleGrips wrote:
So is a charge not different to a move then?
I was under the impression they were regarded differently.

A bit like how a movement modifier doesn't affect the charge unless it explicitly says so.

If you’re asking “can I move a model the rules say can’t move” then you already know the answer.

Are you asking, can the Drop Pod model itself charge? I am not sure what RAW says about this. But RAI is an obvious no.

Furthermore, a drop pod deploying on the table comes in after the movement phase has already progressed to the "deploy reinforcements" stage, and the rules explicitly state that no movement can occur anymore at this point. This also means that models deployed on a drop pod can only disembark the following turn they arrive on the table.

Add all these restrictions in, and I would actually also think that being able to charge in any capacity after entering the table from reinforcements prevents you from performing any sort of charge move, unless a special rule explicitly allows this. Correct me if I'm mistaken though!

Raw is clear a drop pod may declare a charge.

There is no rule that says it can't move it has a movement of - which the designers commentary clarifies to mean can never be modified. Interestingly it also clarifies that move can never be modified below 1" so presumably a drop pod has a 1" move by proxy

Chargeing as someone else stated is not based off the movement characteristic and any model can charge with four exceptions

1) it fell back or advanced

2) the unit is in engagement range

3) the unit is an aircraft

4) it has a specific rule saying otherwise which the drop pod does not

Intended almost definitely not but RAW trumps RAI

 tauist wrote:
Are you asking, can the Drop Pod model itself charge? I am not sure what RAW says about this. But RAI is an obvious no.

Furthermore, a drop pod deploying on the table comes in after the movement phase has already progressed to the "deploy reinforcements" stage, and the rules explicitly state that no movement can occur anymore at this point. This also means that models deployed on a drop pod can only disembark the following turn they arrive on the table.

Add all these restrictions in, and I would actually also think that being able to charge in any capacity after entering the table from reinforcements prevents you from performing any sort of charge move, unless a special rule explicitly allows this. Correct me if I'm mistaken though!

Units that arrive via Drop Pod disembark immediately after the Drop Pod is placed on the table, and they still need to be more than 9" away from all enemy models.

Nothing about arriving from reinforcements inherently prevents a unit from charging that turn, though the 9" charge is, itself, less than likely. However, some rules (such as the Trygon's Subterranean Assault) my limit or outright prevent an arriving unit from be able to declare a charge.

U02dah4 wrote:
Raw is clear a drop pod may declare a charge.

There is no rule that says it can't move it has a movement of - which the designers commentary clarifies to mean can never be modified. Interestingly it also clarifies that move can never be modified below 1" so presumably a drop pod has a 1" move by proxy

Chargeing as someone else stated is not based off the movement characteristic and any model can charge with four exceptions

1) it fell back or advanced

2) the unit is in engagement range

3) the unit is an aircraft

4) it has a specific rule saying otherwise which the drop pod does not

Intended almost definitely not but RAW trumps RAI

Aash wrote:
From the core rules section on “profiles”, under “datasheets”:

If a model has a Move of '-' it is unable to move at all

See what was already posted.

Just so I have a clear understanding, can TFC charge? Can Hammerfall Bunkers? I don't understand how something with 0 movement can charge.

Because charge is not based off the movement stat it is a charge move based off the charge distance

Although I can acknowledge that the - may not move could be interpreted to more broadly include charge moves this isn't explicit and if you follow the charge sequence



A unit is eligible to charge if it is within 12" of one or more
enemy units at the start of your Charge phase, unless any of the
following apply:
■ That unit Advanced or Fell Back this turn.
■ That unit is within Engagement Range of any enemy models.
■ That unit is an Aircraft unit.

All of these are fine so you are eligible to declare a charge



You then make a Charge roll for the charging unit by rolling
2D6. The result is the maximum number of inches each model
in that unit can be moved if a Charge move is possible.


Which is defined as

For a Charge move to be possible, the Charge roll must be sufficient to
enable the charging unit to end that move:
■ Within Engagement Range of every unit that you selected as a
target of the charge.
■ Without moving within Engagement Range of any enemy
units that were not a target of the charge.
■ In Unit Coherency.
If any of these conditions cannot be met, the charge fails and
no models in the charging unit move this phase. Otherwise, the
charge is successful and the models in the charging unit make
a Charge move

So you would have to interpret it as the charge is successfull but you dont get to make a charge move so overrule what the rules are explicitly telling you to do because the stated conditions are met and being able to move iant one of them. Also Noting that none of the other units M stat effects their charges e.g.a 6"M guardsman can charge 12". Its M is not considered modified in this interaction so neither would the-

Same logic with the hamerfall intended probably not, badly written certainly but RAW permissable and the ability to declare a charge undeniable the only questionable bit is whether you can execute the charge having rolled the charge distance


Also if your going to apply the no move - to charge moves why does it not apply to reserves

"Count as Having Made a Normal Move: Reserves units always
count as having made a Normal move in the turn they are set up
on the battlefield. " as this would prevent the drop pod ever being set up

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Just so I have a clear understanding, can TFC charge? Can Hammerfall Bunkers? I don't understand how something with 0 movement can charge.

A hammerfall bunker cannot. It has a movement of -.

I don’t recall if the TFC had a move value of 1” or better, but if it does, it can.

So therefor a Drop Pod, cannot charge, correct?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So therefor a Drop Pod, cannot charge, correct?

Correct.

U02dah4 wrote:
Stuff

Anyone who tries to charge with a Drop Pod should be forced to eat said Drop Pod.

If you tried to charge with a stationary model in a game with me, I'd just pick up your dice and say "Your charge fails, next model"

U02dah4 wrote:

Spoiler:

Because charge is not based off the movement stat it is a charge move based off the charge distance

Although I can acknowledge that the - may not move could be interpreted to more broadly include charge moves this isn't explicit and if you follow the charge sequence



A unit is eligible to charge if it is within 12" of one or more
enemy units at the start of your Charge phase, unless any of the
following apply:
■ That unit Advanced or Fell Back this turn.
■ That unit is within Engagement Range of any enemy models.
■ That unit is an Aircraft unit.

All of these are fine so you are eligible to declare a charge



You then make a Charge roll for the charging unit by rolling
2D6. The result is the maximum number of inches each model
in that unit can be moved if a Charge move is possible.


Which is defined as

For a Charge move to be possible, the Charge roll must be sufficient to
enable the charging unit to end that move:
■ Within Engagement Range of every unit that you selected as a
target of the charge.
■ Without moving within Engagement Range of any enemy
units that were not a target of the charge.
■ In Unit Coherency.
If any of these conditions cannot be met, the charge fails and
no models in the charging unit move this phase. Otherwise, the
charge is successful and the models in the charging unit make
a Charge move

So you would have to interpret it as the charge is successfull but you dont get to make a charge move so overrule what the rules are explicitly telling you to do because the stated conditions are met and being able to move iant one of them. Also Noting that none of the other units M stat effects their charges e.g.a 6"M guardsman can charge 12". Its M is not considered modified in this interaction so neither would the-

Same logic with the hamerfall intended probably not, badly written certainly but RAW permissable and the ability to declare a charge undeniable the only questionable bit is whether you can execute the charge having rolled the charge distance


Also if your going to apply the no move - to charge moves why does it not apply to reserves

"Count as Having Made a Normal Move: Reserves units always
count as having made a Normal move in the turn they are set up
on the battlefield. " as this would prevent the drop pod ever being set up

Here's a question: Why don't you simply go read the rules for the Drop Pod? It tells you how & when to deploy it.
You also know that unit/strat/etc specific rules over ride the general rules, right?

So two non rules based answers just throwing toys out the pram because what should happen doesn't under RAW And that's what you do when you cant support your argument with rules

And 1 unhelpful - the rules for the drop pod don't mention chargeing if they did it might work as intended this isn't a question of deployment its one of chargeing

I think we are done here there's nothing to add RAW contradicts intention

U02dah4 wrote:

So two non rules based answers just throwing toys out the pram because what should happen doesn't under RAW And that's what you do when you cant support your argument with rules

And 1 unhelpful - the rules for the drop pod don't mention chargeing if they did it might work as intended this isn't a question of deployment its one of chargeing

I think we are done here there's nothing to add RAW contradicts intention

"Counts as having Moved," is not the same as "Has moved."

A Drop Pod with a Heavy Weapon would not get +1 to-hit with it on the turn it drops in, because it counts as having moved.
But at no point did it actually move, so its Movement characteristic of - is not an issue.

If you cannot move how are you following the rules by making any type of move?

U02dah4 wrote:

So two non rules based answers just throwing toys out the pram because what should happen doesn't under RAW And that's what you do when you cant support your argument with rules

And 1 unhelpful - the rules for the drop pod don't mention chargeing if they did it might work as intended this isn't a question of deployment its one of chargeing

I think we are done here there's nothing to add RAW contradicts intention

The rules state on page 38: "If a model has a Move of "-" it is unable to move at all." There is no specific mention of Normal move etc. It just says that the model is unable to move at all. At all seems like it captures everything. Are you trying to argue that making a Charge move is not moving the model? Really?

Setting up a model would not be moving the model in game terms. In any case, the Drop Pod rules allow you set up the model in the Reinforcements step so no conflict.

It is clear. A Drop Pod has a Move characteristic of "-" so it cannot move at all. It cannot, therefore, make a Charge move (or a Pile In etc).

As others have said, Drop Pods have a Move of “-“, which includes a special rule that it cannot move at all. Charging is made via a Charge move which involves moving a model. Therefore a Drop Pod cannot charge. QED.

Oh YMDC, how I missed your semantic fights!

A drop pod can be eligible to charge. It can make a charge roll. But it cannot move. It can trigger rules which activate when a unit is eligible to charge, or when it made a charge roll.

IloveIceTea wrote:
A drop pod can be eligible to charge. It can make a charge roll. But it cannot move. It can trigger rules which activate when a unit is eligible to charge, or when it made a charge roll.

Can you tell me the Melee attack of a Drop pod in 10th?

I can't believe I'm asking this: Can a Drop Pod 'perform actions'?

That would depend on the rules for the "action" since there are no general action rules in 10th Edition. They are OC 2 for what that is worth.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:
I can't believe I'm asking this: Can a Drop Pod 'perform actions'?

Unless it restricts Vehicles or something from doing it... Yes.

Most actions as long as it doesn't specify infantry or character


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

IloveIceTea wrote:
A drop pod can be eligible to charge. It can make a charge roll. But it cannot move. It can trigger rules which activate when a unit is eligible to charge, or when it made a charge roll.

Can you tell me the Melee attack of a Drop pod in 10th?

It doesn't have one but how is that relevant It is the same if it is charged it can't make attacks in melee but it can be hit.

There are plenty of models with no melee they can still charge its not a requirement


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 alextroy wrote:
As others have said, Drop Pods have a Move of “-“, which includes a special rule that it cannot move at all. Charging is made via a Charge move which involves moving a model. Therefore a Drop Pod cannot charge. QED.

"Charge move" causes you to move it Is not a "move" it does not derive from the "Move stat". therefore move stat of - has no bearing in the same way that deployment counts as moving but is not a move a "charge move" is not a move

From core rules move is defined "When a unit moves it can make a Normal move, Advance or
Remain Stationary."

A "charge move" is not on that list, you cannot advance during a "charge move" or fall back during a charge move therefore it is not a "move"

This is like when infantry could charge and tie up aircraft. It wasn't explainable, but it was possible under the garage door sized hole in the rules. That's what YMDC does. Finds silly semantic possibilities. I can't tell a player not to charge me with a drop pod, but I can ignore his attempts to use verbal gymnastics to move an immovable object, and then tie up a unit in Melee, with a unit that is incapable of being in melee.