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Continuing a for fun project, this is a 3k point ultramarines armored infantry list. I get that vehicles are a bit average but it’s what I had the itch to run. Any thoughts or adjustments? I have some extra points and I’m debating adding a techmarine or two to maybe cobble cripples vehicles back together. Any feedback would be appreciated
Seems a pretty decent force, but is perhaps necessarily missing HTH clout?
No right of war. The armored spearhead locks your warlord trait to one vehicle that gets a 5+ invul save and +1 ballistic skill which is underwhelming. It also lets predators move out of heavy support.
It definitely lacks close combat stuff but my hope is to use the mobility in the Spartan to try and pick fights where I want
This is similar to the kind of list that I like to run. The vehicles in HH are so cool, it's hard not to include several of them. And I think smurf vehicles look particularly good.
My only suggestions are:
1. The Praetor and his retinue need a transport. I would give them a Land Raider (assuming this is permitted - I don't have my books handy). This would also help keep the Spartan alive longer, as opponents will have to decide which to shoot. Also, Land Raiders are awesome.
2. A single Contemptor in 3000 points does not seem worthwhile. At that level I think you need multiple Dreads or none at all. If you drop this you just about have the points for the Land Raider I suggested.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Snord wrote: This is similar to the kind of list that I like to run. The vehicles in HH are so cool, it's hard not to include several of them. And I think smurf vehicles look particularly good.
My only suggestions are:
1. The Praetor and his retinue need a transport. I would give them a Land Raider (assuming this is permitted - I don't have my books handy). This would also help keep the Spartan alive longer, as opponents will have to decide which to shoot. Also, Land Raiders are awesome.
2. A single Contemptor in 3000 points does not seem worthwhile. At that level I think you need multiple Dreads or none at all. If you drop this you just about have the points for the Land Raider I suggested.
Yeah cutting the dread lets the command squad take a landraider. I really like them in a AV15 flare shields Spartans but not to the point that I have to cut the scorpius to fit another. Losing the dreadnought give me a landraider with multi melta
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/02/04 22:26:08
Yeah, I think the Scorpius belongs in the list - it seems a very Ultramarines kind of vehicle. I was going to suggest that the Scorpius doesn't need a searchlight though, as it's going to be hiding behind cover, but IIRC the rules don't actually require line of sight (which seems daft, although apparently it's possible to bounce searchlights off clouds).
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Snord wrote: Yeah, I think the Scorpius belongs in the list - it seems a very Ultramarines kind of vehicle. I was going to suggest that the Scorpius doesn't need a searchlight though, as it's going to be hiding behind cover, but IIRC the rules don't actually require line of sight (which seems daft, although apparently it's possible to bounce searchlights off clouds).
Yeah I want at least one so that I at least have a chance of not dying to lascannon heavy weapons teams. I stopped myself at one though. I need to check the rules interaction on the searchlight but my thought is it’s 5 points of insurance to make sure the vehicle can fire in night fighting. The Spartan and Rhinos should do most of the lighting. The Scorpion is just in case is in line of sight without a marker.
Doesn't a searchlight require LoS and itself removes night fighting protection (not that that would matter since all units anyways seem to use auguries.)
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Gadzilla666 wrote: You're running a Moritat and going "traitor". Maybe lean into some Destroyers and similar things? Phosfex maybe? At least a Leviathan?
My issue with the dreadnought and especially the leviathan is that the slow siege walker doesn’t match the rest of the list. The 8” move just doesn’t keep up with the vehicles. I thought about the destroyers but I wanted to avoid copying the 22nd? Company. The support squad also just gives more utility overall I think then a destroyer squad
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Not Online!!! wrote: Doesn't a searchlight require LoS and itself removes night fighting protection (not that that would matter since all units anyways seem to use auguries.)
Yes, and while the scorpion should be behind cover most of the game, there’s still a chance it may end up in a direct fire engagement and I’d rather let us just shoot if that’s the case. Ideally the searchlights are coming from things like the Spartan which can take the hit or the rhinos which are more expendable.
Though it’s is a continual frustration that night fighting is another rule that really only seems to negatively impact vehicles. But such is the price for enjoying treads.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/02/07 16:54:54
Honestly i think they should drop the vehicle prices overall by atleast 20 pts, (exception to the Russ vanquisher variant, and scorpious) and probably add another hull point just flat.
But then again vehicles are hardly the biggest loser ATM due to shenanigans like basically guaranteed night fighting and fragility for low output on top. (that'd be militia, solar aux and specifically Artillery except the scorpious)
In regards to your command squad, why not add in a land raider proteus in this list for the command squad of invictors. It's cheap and can be a min lascan squad in one go, drop the dread and you are golden.
Further, your Spartan is illegal, cataphractii can only take a spartan as their specific transport IF you have more than 5 Cataphractii terminators in the squad.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2024/02/07 17:08:35
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Oh yeah it would help to keep the running changes. Shoehorned another terminator in by cutting the artificer armor and grenade harness. I don’t really enjoy the hero sergeant tanking the wound mechanic. I would argue that the overall vehicle weakness further compounds some of those faction problems but the end result is the same that the game heavily favors walkers and terminator units right now. The loss of pie plate with AP is unfortunate as someone who loves vindicators too. Personally I’d just remove hill points at this point. The vehicle is operational until it isn’t but that’s for another forum.
Honestly, i'd not go with the spartan at all in your list here.
If you curb it and instead go with another 5 man cataphractii squad you can also field another proteus.
Which in themselves bring more Wounds, and firepower to the table than the Spartan since you are not going for a Brick of doom type of build.
Which in themselves would allow you to skip the lascannon predators to stack up maybee another such a cataphractii or tartaros proteus combo.
That would saturate the table far more with AV 14 which is more reliable, whilest improving the available firepower by a significant margin. Proteus got 2 gravis and a synch lascannon which is far more reliable and potentially dispersable firepower than the lascannon preds.
I am also unsure of the volkite makrosaker, despite absolutely loving my full volkite preds aswell, i have had far better success with the normal pred autocannon and volkite sponsons.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2024/02/08 09:45:32
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I can’t cut the Spartan. It had been one of those models I had always wanted but. Ever wanted to shell out for a resin brick. Predators are more of an ascetic choice. I just want the tanks in it. The reality is that heavy weapons squads do the same job better.
evil_kiwi_60 wrote: I can’t cut the Spartan. It had been one of those models I had always wanted but. Ever wanted to shell out for a resin brick. Predators are more of an ascetic choice. I just want the tanks in it. The reality is that heavy weapons squads do the same job better.
Nothing wrong with that , but from a game perspective you will need a real brick unit then to make it work. Some elite terminators with a primus medicae in the spartan.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/02/10 07:09:08
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Nothing wrong with that , but from a game perspective you will need a real brick unit then to make it work. Some elite terminators with a primus medicae in the spartan.
I honestly might just shuffle the terminators and command squad turn 1. The ultramarine terminators are really a shooting unit and a bit too much cheese for my taste. But swapping transports puts the heavy hitting suzerians in the Spartan.
Nothing wrong with that , but from a game perspective you will need a real brick unit then to make it work. Some elite terminators with a primus medicae in the spartan.
I honestly might just shuffle the terminators and command squad turn 1. The ultramarine terminators are really a shooting unit and a bit too much cheese for my taste. But swapping transports puts the heavy hitting suzerians in the Spartan.
If that is the main concern, then i'd argue that you may aswell cut the Cataphractii, curb the scorpious and instead replace it with the spartan, that way you can field the suzerains directly in it.
Alternative, you could go for the Rite of war, with a Sicarian as HQ or Predator even if you don't like it, but that would also open up the option for more proteusi and reopen the HS slots for the scorpious.
Personally, i think you could get away with the following rather well if you want to avoid the rite of war.
Skip the scorpious or replace the predator squad with volkite macro sakers entirely with a squadron of scorpiousi. They do everything the volkite preds do but better. Unless we are talking about 50 man militia blobs but that is such a rarity that it hardly matters.
Run the Spartan as a regular HS slot unit that transports your suzzerains.
Replace the cataphractii single squad with 2x 5 squads of Tartaros terminators in 2 proteus with lascannons whilest strengthening your melee capabilites.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2024/02/13 14:51:06
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
I honestly might just shuffle the terminators and command squad turn 1. The ultramarine terminators are really a shooting unit and a bit too much cheese for my taste. But swapping transports puts the heavy hitting suzerians in the Spartan.
Worth noting that the UM shooty terminators got a pretty hefty nerf not too long ago, taking their missles from S8 to S7.
Meanwhile, Suzerains are still up there as one of the "don't take too many if you want to have friends" units in terms of their durability, damage output, cost, and just overall efficiency in all regards.
