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Looking to get back into hobbying/painting. Last army I assembled painted was Custodes. Thinking about BA this time. Is there a good start collecting/combat patrol box for good marines these days? The Blood Angels one actually comes with a bunch of stuff I don't want, and the newest one comes with stuff I maybe can't use? I haven't seen what BA can or cannot take as a faction in 10th. But I recall that Specific chapters are locked to their own characters, right? So I can't take, Tiggy, or The Salamanders guy...it has to be Dante, or Sanguineous. Morbo is legends I think...anyway, pointers in the right direction are appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

In the event that I cannot find any at the FLGS,

if I totally suck at painting, are Eldar hard to assemble? I've been told they're fun to play, but frail as heck models. I know for a fact, I can't do decals, and my brush will never do that stuff with the Avatar where it looks like a custom Ferrari with the flames. Yeah, I can't ever have that level of hand control again.

I think the way it works is that if you include Blood Angel specific units, you're looking at picking a detachment from the BA Dex/Supplement whenever it comes. BUT if your army doesn't include Blood Angel specific units, you can use any marine detachment.

I could be wrong- I'm not really a Marine guy (outside of the two marine forces which act as Chambers Militant to the Inquisition).

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Looking to get back into hobbying/painting. Last army I assembled painted was Custodes. Thinking about BA this time. Is there a good start collecting/combat patrol box for good marines these days? The Blood Angels one actually comes with a bunch of stuff I don't want, and the newest one comes with stuff I maybe can't use? I haven't seen what BA can or cannot take as a faction in 10th. But I recall that Specific chapters are locked to their own characters, right? So I can't take, Tiggy, or The Salamanders guy...it has to be Dante, or Sanguineous. Morbo is legends I think...anyway, pointers in the right direction are appreciated.

Here's the current BA specific rules: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/4VZEQzITSoGhW71H.pdf


On Eldar - No, not particularly difficult to assemble. If your coming from building Custodes though? Yeah you'll notice a lot of Eldar bitz are much more spindly/small/fine.

PenitentJake wrote:
I think the way it works is that if you include Blood Angel specific units, you're looking at picking a detachment from the BA Dex/Supplement whenever it comes. BUT if your army doesn't include Blood Angel specific units, you can use any marine detachment.

I could be wrong- I'm not really a Marine guy (outside of the two marine forces which act as Chambers Militant to the Inquisition).

This is not the case.

The are a couple of restrictions. For the Detachments in the Space Marine Codex you cannot mix Chapters, but any Chapter can use them. You can have a Blood Angels Gladius Detachment or Firestorm Assault Force drawn from the Space Marine Codex that includes unique Blood Angels unique units. So you could have Dante leading a Blood Angels Stormlance Detachment that has units from the main Space Marine Codex, a detachment from the main Space Marine Codex but unique units from the Blood Angels Supplement. What you could not do is have an Ultramarines named character in with your Blood Angels unique units, regardless of Detachment.

You can assign your Chapter keyword of choice to your non-unique units as you see fit, but you still cannot mix in the same Detachment. So you could say that your blue Marines are Blood Angels successors and use the Blood Angels Detachment. You could not say that Marneus Calgar is a Blood Angel as he has the Ultramarines keyword regardless of paint job.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:


if I totally suck at painting, are Eldar hard to assemble? I've been told they're fun to play, but frail as heck models. I know for a fact, I can't do decals, and my brush will never do that stuff with the Avatar where it looks like a custom Ferrari with the flames. Yeah, I can't ever have that level of hand control again.

I don't think the Eldar are particularly frail. Most of the plastic kits are solid. The new guardians kit is leagues better than the old and corrected the problem the old kit had with the backpack vanes. The new aspects are all good. The Farseer has some vulnerable bling. The Autarchs are solid. Support weapons are a good kit and are actually designed to allow for weapons to be swapped. Wraithguard, Wraithlord and War Walkers are all good kits. The only plastic kit that's bad is the Dire Avenger box. It's old, the arms don't fit well and they have those fragile targeters. The stuff that's still in finecast like the Warp Spiders and Fire Dragons I would skip and look for the OOP metals on ebay.

Further to my last, the non-Codex Chapters Detachments have restrictions. The three Dark Angels Detachments, for instance, have the restriction that: "Your army can include Dark Angels units, but it cannot include any Adeptus Astartes units drawn from any other Chapter."

The seven Detachments in the main Codex do not have such a restriction, only that all units must be from the same Chapter. So a Dark Angels player can choose from ten Detachments, while an Ultramarines player can only choose from seven (assuming he is playing his blue marines as Ultramarines).

So the combat patrol box for the BA comes with the three "not Primaris Terminators" that came out in 8th, Aggressors? Anyway, those aren't listed on the BA faction pdf posted above, does that mean I can't run them? Or just I can't run them as Death company?

If I go BA, how many books do I need? BRB, SM, and BA?

Blood Angels can take all the units from the main Space Marines Codex, less those that have a Chapter on their data sheet. Calgar has Ultramarines, so Blood Angels cannot take him. Aggressors, though, have Adeptus Astatres as their keyword so you can make them whatever you want, including Blood Angels.

As a BA player you will need:
●BRB (assuming you want the Crusade stuff & alot of fluff and pretty pictures) - otherwise you can just use the core rules found there on GWs site. (They are exact matches page for page what's in the BRB)

●The SM codex.
●The BA index pdf I linked you.

As a BA player your force can contain:
●Any unit in the SM codex that is not keyed to a specific Chapter.(yes, that includes those Aggressors you see in the CP box. )
●Any unit in the BA index.
And yes, you can use any of the Detachments.

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Further to my last, the non-Codex Chapters Detachments have restrictions. The three Dark Angels Detachments, for instance, have the restriction that: "Your army can include Dark Angels units, but it cannot include any Adeptus Astartes units drawn from any other Chapter."

The seven Detachments in the main Codex do not have such a restriction, only that all units must be from the same Chapter. So a Dark Angels player can choose from ten Detachments, while an Ultramarines player can only choose from seven (assuming he is playing his blue marines as Ultramarines).

They somehow devised a system that made subfactions irrelevant to every army in the game... And immediately made some Space Marine and some CSM factions still manage to be special by virtue of having additional detachments available to them. Any subfaction that gets a supplement or a dex of its own will have advantages that other factions don't get.

BA, DA, SW, DW, GK are all like to be able to choose from three or so in their own book plus any of the seven in the dex, plus any in the White dwarfs because, ridiculously, they think that most Marines need an 8th Detachment and DA need an 11th more than Custodes, or GSC or Sisters need a second. At least Drukhari managed to sneak an extra one in with the update. Vect's influence extends far indeed.

I suspect that DG, Ksons, WE and EC will have their own exclusive detachments in their books, but they might be able to use the detachments from the CSM codex too.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Looking to get back into hobbying/painting. Last army I assembled painted was Custodes. Thinking about BA this time. Is there a good start collecting/combat patrol box for good marines these days? The Blood Angels one actually comes with a bunch of stuff I don't want, and the newest one comes with stuff I maybe can't use? I haven't seen what BA can or cannot take as a faction in 10th. But I recall that Specific chapters are locked to their own characters, right? So I can't take, Tiggy, or The Salamanders guy...it has to be Dante, or Sanguineous. Morbo is legends I think...anyway, pointers in the right direction are appreciated.

Thank you in advance!

In the event that I cannot find any at the FLGS,

if I totally suck at painting, are Eldar hard to assemble? I've been told they're fun to play, but frail as heck models. I know for a fact, I can't do decals, and my brush will never do that stuff with the Avatar where it looks like a custom Ferrari with the flames. Yeah, I can't ever have that level of hand control again.

I'd start with looking at what's happened to UM and DA before I buy anything:
UM lost their named Sergeants, Tyrannic War Vets, and Cassius.
They gained... new sculpts and a couple new kits that aren't much more than new sculpts? Desolators (Missile Devs), Brutalis (Furioso/Bjorn), Ballistus (First Born Dread with LC and ML)

DA Lost their generic but Special Interrogator Chaplains (While keeping Asmodai if not his Blades of Reason) They lost their Special Deathwing Command Squad - And the characters that had been split out, plus some versatility on their Special Deathwing Terminator Squad and their special Lieutenants the Strike/Talon -Masters.
They gained - The stuff above, plus more Index-crossing access to the -Guard Veterans, a new quasi Bladeguard unit, an upgrade sprue in an otherwise baseline Terminator Box for their Deathwing Terminator Squad.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them gain some subset but not all of: BA/DC(Even Libby) Upgrade Sprues to Brutalis - I'd technically be mildly surprised to see an upsized Arenos Karlaen - depending on Tycho and Corbulo fates and any new Primaris Power Armored Epic i.e. Antargo, Aphael or Matarno most likely based on previous exposure in standalone sets, books, and video games.
I wouldn't be surprised to see BA losesome subset but not all of: Furioso, DC Dreads, a Cut-And-Paste replacement for the Libby Dread using Brutalis frames, Tycho (his history is just way out of phase with the Primaris Force for Armageddon Reasons (If you want to know you have enough to google and I don't have to spoil it for people who don't want to know.) One or the other (both would surprise me) of the two Jump Chaplains capable of joining the DC. I think Lemartes Crosses the Rubicon while Astorath disappears faster than Donna Pinciotti's sister. I wouldn't be surprised if all the current Death Company kits disappear to be replaced with the Jump Intercessors and the Death Company Sprue from the Death Company Intercessor box. The Intercessors get reboxed as generics, the upgrade sprue goes with what could have been generic Jump Intercessors. Of course people who bought the group pounder DC are screwed and squeal - so maybe they stick around for another edition or two and just the first borns disappear.
My guess is Seth stays. I don't know what they do with Corbulo. If they jettison Tycho his status is safer as BA then won't have an Epic Captain unless they also add Karlaen and/or a new Epic Probably-Primaris Power Armor Captain. I haven't got any idea what they do with the Baal Predator, if anything. The Gladiator Reaper probably put the writing on the wall for the Baal Pred, I just don't have any idea how close we're getting to being able to read the fine print.

As for Kits:
The Spearhead Force might be what you're looking for: 15 Jump Intercessors, 1 Jump Captain, 3 Outriders and 1 ATV. I think you'll have to go to secondary markets to get it if you want but Amazon (fronting for Brick And Mortars offloading Back Stock) has you covered there. The actual Blood Angels Combat Patrol isn't awful, but its not great for "Blood Angels". The Leviathan box or the generic (New Termies) SM Combat Patrol will also be fairly "Blood Angels"-y The theme for BA has over time been Jump Packs, Librarians, Dreads (especially Libby and two Fisted Dreads) Terminators (Especially close assault which I'm still waiting for the new ones for rather than buying more old ones), and fast vehicles (Speeders, Supercharged Engine Predators, etc)

Those two boxes gets you a bunch of Terminators, and Terminator HQ's (including a Libby), a bunch of Jump Packers, some fast bikes which are close to speeders, a squad of the Flamerator Marines which aren't great on the table top, but also tend to gel a bit with Blood Angels by nature of their close range guns. If you're looking to play, I'd get a Leviathan and try and sell or back burner the Nids so you get the rulebook, add the Spear Head, and see where you stand. Adding a couple of the Brutalis Dreads, Primaris Dante, Sanguinary Guard (which you may want to hold off until BA release as they could easily jump up to Primaris'ified or Rush into if you prefer the older look to anything primaris) Mephiston and/or a couple generic Libbies (A phobos libby leading a unit of Reivers is'nt really a standard, but might be fairly appealing in a BA list with callbacks to Dante causing 2ed Terror, Space Vampires, and so on).


To sum up - Assuming you want to play the army too, and depending on how much you want to spend and in an order determined by what you think will/wont get resculpts that you may or may not like better - Leviathan/StarterSet/Termie laden Combat Patrol + Space Marine Spearhead with the jumpers and bikes, a few individual kits - Dante, Mephiston, Brutalis Dreads, Generic Libbies (Maybe with Reivers) Sanguinary Guard,
Eventually post Codex Leak/Release: Death Company, Named Jump Chaplain who is TBD. Potentially one more Jump Captain for the other 5 Jump Packers Which were potentially in a 10 for Dante, 5 for the Captain pool until you get the Sanguinary Guard (unless you turn the extra 5 into alternate armed Sergeants expecting a return to points for pistols, but I'd kick that can WAY down the road) That'll get you a jump theme, with still first order thematic support in Terminators and Dreads, and some second order thematic support from Reivers and Inflammenators. You'll also be able to prioritize stuff that is practically immune to change like recently re-/released characters(Dante/Mephiston) Core codex units like the Jump Intercessors and such which are thus fairly "safe" for at least a few editions into the future. and get them assembled and painted while you wait for the Chapter Codex/Supplement to leak/release and let you know which of the riskier Chapter Specific stuff stays and goes.

I'm personally still using the Index: Space Marines and Index: Blood Angels for my BA army. I see no reason to invest into a codex which invalidates most of my miniatures, I can just keep pretending that Index: Space Marines is the latest document for the SM base rules & datasheets

 tauist wrote:
I'm personally still using the Index: Space Marines and Index: Blood Angels for my BA army. I see no reason to invest into a codex which invalidates most of my miniatures, I can just keep pretending that Index: Space Marines is the latest document for the SM base rules & datasheets

??
why don't you just use the Legends entries for the things you mistakenly thing have been invalidated?
I mean, they're all right there. All that's happened is that the PDF you find them in has changed.

I find it hilarious that Blade guard didn't get tossed onto the BA Index. You'd think the premier Primaris close combat unit would get some BA love. I mean a squad of DC Blade guard would get silly when dropped out of a Impulser.

Depending on the speed and love of painting I would start by assembling and painting units, that all marine armies use. Scouts, interceptors etc As a palet cleanser do BA specific stuff, but stick to the safe stuff (primaris). Dante, Mefiston etc There are cool BA things, and some are even good, but I wouldn't buy units of non primaris sanguine guard, sanguinor etc.

I think some stuff you can try to build/paint pre codex release. A unit of assault space marines painted as death company, are IMO safe. But Libby dread, baal predators will be gone. The important factor is how fast you want to start to play. And maybe some weaker units are good to retrain painting red etc. Stuff like any troop primaris option, hellblasters aren't very obligatory to BA or a "must have", but they can help you get in to painting back again. Any of the tank can do it too. Just maybe don't start with 3 nu predators, but one of the gladiators and maybe a dread or an impulsor can be okey, for starting a BA collection.

That's essentially what I thought would be safest for my skill level, start with a few squads of DC Assault Marines, and see how that goes. Do I need to buy the "DC marine box, or can I just go Assault Marines and paint them black/red highlights?

Well the DC boxes, especialy the non primaris one, has a lot of nice parts. And there is always the question of potential load outs in the future. Now DC can go crazy with load outs, and I think there is a big chance that they will not keep it when the codex comes out.
But lets say doing 10 or 15 DC with a leader with fist, is probably as safe as it gets. Potentialy in the future you maybe will/could buy more and just fill in the gaps of special weapons etc.

Just don't go over board and stay away from old models, aside for trying to get pars. For example the parts in the old BA tactical box were superb, I would get that just for the bits.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I find it hilarious that Blade guard didn't get tossed onto the BA Index. You'd think the premier Primaris close combat unit would get some BA love. I mean a squad of DC Blade guard would get silly when dropped out of a Impulser.

They didn't need to be, BA can already take Bladeguard, they were an all-chapter option when they were released in the Indomitus box.

But yeah, that's probably why they have a DC Bladeguard unit. I expect DC to go to Jump Intercessors and a vaguely Heirloom Weapons rule borrowed from Vanguard Vets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
That's essentially what I thought would be safest for my skill level, start with a few squads of DC Assault Marines, and see how that goes. Do I need to buy the "DC marine box, or can I just go Assault Marines and paint them black/red highlights?

I'd backburner DC until after the Codex Drops, or you run out of "safer" kits to assemble and pain - with that said the DC specific box is going to have more bling (BA+DC Molded details, loincloths etc) and weapons options like power fists, swords, and Thunder Hammers. Which is one of the reasons I think its more likely to fade than stick - they're about the only jump pack all power weapon+ type squads you can get.

Edit To Add: I'd start with the new Jump Captain and/or Dante plus 10 Jump Intercessors. They're likely to be in most of your BA armies anyway, and they'll be a good prototype for your eventual foray into Sanguinary Guard, Death Company and such. Dante is likely to be a bigger focus than a Jump Captain, but he's not THAT much more complicated with small details and such. A little but not massively so. After that some Heavy/Regular/Assault Intercessors for some BattleLine/TROOPS. Next some Aggressors or Terminators. Aggressors are probably slightly better, but the Terminators will be slightly more fluffy. After that a couple Brutallis Dreads - that could/should keep you busy on safe stuff until the codex release.

I have lost track of how many BAs I have painted, but it’s close to 350 across about 6 editions. Best advice I have for starting is find why you want BAs and then get that. The rules will change and an army is such an investment in money and time that I think you will regret chasing meta. The suggestions to get the non-BA specific units first are spot on since the Death Company and Sanguinary Guard kits are starting to show their age and I have to imagine GW will want to take my money with new kits sometime this edition.

If I were to start again, which my history suggests I will, I would start with intercessors and infiltrators, no matter what edition it seems these are useful. Also jump intercessors, otherwise I make Sanguinius cry. I like having all the helmet types and those cover red and yellow so blue helmets on the aggressors since they feel right with the BAs.

Happy painting!

If I made the Jump pack intercessors have Red White and BLUE helmets, would that be too on the nose? And wrote little 82nd patches on them?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If I made the Jump pack intercessors have Red White and BLUE helmets, would that be too on the nose? And wrote little 82nd patches on them?

Do it.

Finally thinking about getting into the hobby side of things and decided on a BA army

starting off small, there is only one place that plays 40k in my "city", went there last time and they mostly seem to be doing 500 point games slowly building up to 1000 with like one or two guys that have bigger armies

so for start thinking of:

jump chaplain
2x death company
2x either assault intercessor squad or jump intercessors

so my questions:
-death company, can I buy the jump intercessors and paint them black/red or do I loose out on some weapons or something else important by not buying the dedicated DC box?
-assault vs jump, whats the difference? what do I loose or gain by choosing one over the other?
-what weapon on the jump chaplain?
-overall is it an ok army for the start?

I know there is the combat patrol box, but meh don't really like a lot of the models in it and don't want to force myself to play with something I'm not 100% into. There is also a new BA codex soon, but don't really want to wait like half a year...

So I recently made this exact mistake. The Assault intercessor box that I bought only came with chain swords and bolt pistols. No plasma pistol or power first sgt options. So right there, better off DC box. Secondly the DC box I think comes with THs and other tasty bits. So feel free to snack those up. Only problem, no primaris sized. I'm gonna grab up a couple more boxes of assault intercessors, and special order the primaris jump packs, and then just hobby bash them. There is no point in giving myself the labor of un-screwing the mess of a kit box that GW put together.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
So I recently made this exact mistake. The Assault intercessor box that I bought only came with chain swords and bolt pistols. No plasma pistol or power first sgt options. So right there, better off DC box. Secondly the DC box I think comes with THs and other tasty bits. So feel free to snack those up. Only problem, no primaris sized. I'm gonna grab up a couple more boxes of assault intercessors, and special order the primaris jump packs, and then just hobby bash them. There is no point in giving myself the labor of un-screwing the mess of a kit box that GW put together.

I did some 3D Printer searches for bits to make and it turned out well if you have that option.

Edit to Add: After having looked at the datasheet, they're assuming a mix of Assault Intercessors and Regular Intercessors turned into DC Intercessors - the power fist and thunder hammer are in the Assault Intercessor kit. Bear in mind the Death Company Intercessor box kit is just Regular Intercessors with a BA Primaris upgrade sprue with a pistol, sword, shoulderpads and heads. (because the DC Intercessor kit is older than the Assault Intercessor kit if I remember.

I suspect I'd either buy two DC Intercessor kits (making them normal Intercessors) then using the Upgrade sprues on a box of Assault Intercessors. Of course I like the molded shoulderpads and such (which is why I 3D Print but assuming not that I would just buy the Assault Intercessors and two upgrade sprues rather than make the Assault Intercessors without the special pads either). But even then you're missing the molded DC "unit" shoulderpad and the eventual Jump Pack Assault DC Intercessor kit I fully expect to see when BA Drops so my first choice is still to wait on BA Specific units - except for a few obvious ones like Dante. and Mephiston - long enough for those kit(s) and datasheet(s) to drop and equalize from the "index PDF".

I'm frankly amazed that with +1 to wound, +1 S, and +1 attack in Melee, Assault intercessors aren't more widely used in BA lists that I've seen? For the points, they look like a great harrasing unit, objective holder, and even chaff clearer. Where is the rub I'm missing? They're inate buffs make a regular troop unit pretty awesome, but all I ever see are regular intercessors?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I'm frankly amazed that with +1 to wound, +1 S, and +1 attack in Melee, Assault intercessors aren't more widely used in BA lists that I've seen? For the points, they look like a great harrasing unit, objective holder, and even chaff clearer. Where is the rub I'm missing? They're inate buffs make a regular troop unit pretty awesome, but all I ever see are regular intercessors?

I think it was changed - +2S, +1A on the charge for BA in the BA Det Plus strats for stuff like Lance and Lethal Hits. As to your question: My guess is space. Its not that they're bad, I think they just get edged out if you're looking for balanced shooting/melee. HINTs are just priced too attractively. Regular Intercessors with a pair of AuxGL's and a hidden powerfist also has a slight edge over the Assault Intercessors point for point. I think Assault Intercessors will atrophy a bit until/unless they get some sort of Anti-Big-Bad ability - Not necessarily Anti-X but something that gives them a way to whack light to medium vehicles without wounding on 6's with D1 weapons. If they don't want to recut the kit (and they probably dont) it could be as simple as a Melta-Bomb bespoke ability for the two Assault Intercessor groups. Roll a D6 for each model in Engagement range, on a 3+ (max twice) deal D6D plus Melta 2 damage to yadda yadda. Something like that. But with Bladeguard, Assault Intercessors with Jump Packs, Vanguard Vets, Terminators, and Death Company there's too much competition in BA armies for the punchy guys.