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Nurglings

A minor change, probably worthy of a small points increase.

Furies

An old unit, and able to be taken by any subfaction of Daemons. That's the main bit-Nurglings are great (especially with my proposed change) but they're Nurgle only. Whereas the Furies can be taken by Slaanesh Daemons, World Eaters, whoever.

Hi, JNA. Just want to make sure I understand the changes to Nurglings properly. It looks like:

* You increased OC from 0 to 1.
* Lowered wounds from 4 to 1.
* Got rid of Mischief Makers.

The OC increase seems fine and helpful. Although making swarms OC 0 definitely seems like an intentional choice by GW this edition (scarabs and rippers are OC 0 too), so do be aware that your nurglings will be the exception to that rule.

I'm guessing the Wounds decrease was a typo. Not sure if getting rid of Mischief Makers was intentional, but I like that rule and would rather it stay.

Furies seem reasonable. Maybe a smidge overpriced, but I'm not sure how cheap you can make T4 with a 5++ save and good movement.

The daemonic allegiances do seem to vary in power level quite a bit. Nurgly makes the unit significantly more durable against S4 which makes the unit more likely to survive to keep scoring/running interference. Slaaneshi sounds nice, but it will only matter in scenarios where those 2" make the difference between reaching your destination or not. Khornate sounds nice at a glance, but it really only matters against T4 and T9 targets, and furies don't have the volume of attacks to accomplish much even if they do wound on 3+. I want to say Tzeentchian looks underwhelming, but go from Ld8+ to 7+ on a unit whose main job is to stand on objectives might lowkey be a pretty big deal.

Wound decrease was a typo, yes.
Mischief Makers being removed was intentional.

For the Furies' allegiance, I am least satisfied with Tzeentch, followed by Slaanesh. Should I, perhaps, upgrade Khorne to +2 Strength? And any ideas for what else I could do with Slaanesh and Tzeentch?

Well, I vote for bringing back mischief makers because I find it fluffy and a neat little support debuff.

Tzeentch's problem, I think, is that it's so passive. While it represents a decent boost to your chances of passing a morale test, it only comes up "after the action" in your command phase, only matters if you roll a 7, and it's easy to not give yourself a beat to pause and appreciate that choosing Tzeentch caused you to pass the test and thus earn some points. So the obvious solution is to make the benefits more obvious. Maybe an OC increase? Regain slain models during the command phase? Models slain in melee have a chance of inflicting mortal wounds? Not sure. I'm prone to making overly-complicated suggestions where simple solutions will do.

Slaanesh: My first thought was to give them oldschool rending. Crit wounds count as AP -3 or something. Their low number of attacks keep it from being all that lethal, but it will make them a bit more killy. Maybe give them a free move when an enemy falls back from them so they can hide and be more annoying to deal with? A bonus to the Prey on the Weak roll?

Khorne: Upping the strength to 6 instead of 5 would make the upgrade matter against both geq and meq as well as helping out against most vehicles. My only hesitation is: does making them killy actually make them too redundant with other khorne units?

Could maybe treat them more like vultures feeding off of the violence of the "real" khorne daemons. Let them heal when an enemy within X" is destroyed, or maybe let them move towards the last model to be removed or something. In theory, khorne armies will like including them purely because they can force your opponent to move forward to deal with the infiltrators.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Well, I vote for bringing back mischief makers because I find it fluffy and a neat little support debuff.

Tzeentch's problem, I think, is that it's so passive. While it represents a decent boost to your chances of passing a morale test, it only comes up "after the action" in your command phase, only matters if you roll a 7, and it's easy to not give yourself a beat to pause and appreciate that choosing Tzeentch caused you to pass the test and thus earn some points. So the obvious solution is to make the benefits more obvious. Maybe an OC increase? Regain slain models during the command phase? Models slain in melee have a chance of inflicting mortal wounds? Not sure. I'm prone to making overly-complicated suggestions where simple solutions will do.

Slaanesh: My first thought was to give them oldschool rending. Crit wounds count as AP -3 or something. Their low number of attacks keep it from being all that lethal, but it will make them a bit more killy. Maybe give them a free move when an enemy falls back from them so they can hide and be more annoying to deal with? A bonus to the Prey on the Weak roll?

Khorne: Upping the strength to 6 instead of 5 would make the upgrade matter against both geq and meq as well as helping out against most vehicles. My only hesitation is: does making them killy actually make them too redundant with other khorne units?

Could maybe treat them more like vultures feeding off of the violence of the "real" khorne daemons. Let them heal when an enemy within X" is destroyed, or maybe let them move towards the last model to be removed or something. In theory, khorne armies will like including them purely because they can force your opponent to move forward to deal with the infiltrators.

Tzeentch... OC increase feels too much. No Infantry Infiltrators have an OC greater than 1, and that's a trend I don't want to buck.
I like the returning models idea, so I might do that.

Slaanesh, I like moving after an enemy Falls Back. Buffing Prey On The Weak is probably too much, though.

Khorne, I don't think would make them redundant. Even at S6, they have less AP and Damage than a basic Bloodletter.

Adjustments incoming to the original post soon.

Edit: I decided to give them a buff outisde the Shadow of Chaos, and a larger buff within.

I like the updated version! A couple of nitpicks:

Khorne: Requiring shadow to get S6 instead of S5 does mean that that you'll only really benefit from this rule while within the shadow when playing against GEQ. Which might be fine. Maybe this is too much, but you could possibly give them the Lance rule and then +1 S while within shadow. This would basically make them +1 to-wound on the charge against all targets and then +2 to-wound against meq and qeq while within shadow. The issue there being that you might not want them to perform quite that well against high T targets, but I *think* their squishiness and low number of attacks probably keeps that from being too much?

GEQ, TEQ, and Gravis, actually, all care about S5->S6.

Right, but GEQ doesn't care about going from S4->S5. So if you choose your allegiance during list building, then set up a pickup game against a T3 army, your allegiance benefit will only kick in while you're in your shadow. Whereas the other allegiances are generally available regardless of whether you're in your shadow.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
Right, but GEQ doesn't care about going from S4->S5. So if you choose your allegiance during list building, then set up a pickup game against a T3 army, your allegiance benefit will only kick in while you're in your shadow. Whereas the other allegiances are generally available regardless of whether you're in your shadow.

GEQ with S3 weapons also don’t care about T4->T5.

With how wonky the wounding chart’ results are, I’m not really that concerned if there’s wonkiness in my units involving the wounding chart.

I'm all for simplifying the game by cutting down on unique abilities, but axing just one might rub fans of Nurglings the wrong way.

Consider giving Furies with different allegiances different roles. Perhaps Tzeentch Furies are all about objectives, so they can DS and Infiltrate outside engagement range instead of 9" by giving up their charge. Slaanesh Furies are all about enticing people to come to them, so they can fall back and charge. Nurgle is about spreading disease, so they reduce Toughness of nearby enemy units.Khorne Furies might be ideal for slaughtering weak characters and have precision strikes.

Even if Slaanesh Furies are best, they can't do the things the other ones can. I think that with simple stat buffs you're going to get a best option without any niche use for the alternatives.