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Hey gang.

I've recently been going through my old stuff and getting the itch to model, paint, and play again. Trust me, it's been a minute.

A decade ago, when they first came out, I bought an entire Harlequin army, as the space elf hobo murder clowns have been my favorite, well, anything in 40k since 1989. I was stoked that GW was actually supporting them. Then work/life/everything got in the way, and the army languished in a tub in my project room. I'd like to actually put them together, paint them, and play.

One problem. I live in the middle of nowhere. In Montana. There are no groups near me, or even other players. So, I'd likely have to drive a few hours to go to tournaments, or plan short vacations and travel to GT's and such. No problem, I love that stuff, so it is what it is.

Here's the crux of the problem: I'd like to filed a mono-clown list, and I could easily, but for the life of me I can't see the value in bringing some of the units. I'm looking at YOU, Voidweaver. For the same points, I could bring two Vypers (double the wounds, OC, and two units if I want them to be), a Wave Serpent (VASTLY more survivable, nearly as good at shooting, and a 12-man transport), or a Falcon (ditto, less transport but much better firepower). The Voidweaver just seems...overpriced. By a lot.

Taking the other Aeldari units has only one downside, that you can't use Mocking Flight or Exit the Stage with them. That's literally it. Hell, a Falcon can darn near replace both a Voidweaver AND a Starweaver, for 75 less points.

How do people feel in the modern environment about mixed lists like this? I see a lot of battle reports with people stuffing Falcons full of Fire Dragons in their Harlequin lists, I'm not going that far. I'd also have dedicated models for it, with Harlequin crews, paint jobs, etc.

Why am I asking this? I'm old. I'm from the era of RTs and GTs where Painting Scores, Sportsmanship Scores, and occasionally even Composition Scores were 50% of your overall points. I also don't want to be seen as "that guy," who's only showing up to try and push people's teeth in and win games. I just have some difficulty purposefully hamstringing my army with obviously sub-par points purchases.

Thoughts? Experiences? Go tell an old man to yell at clouds instead? I'd really some some feedback from people into the modern tournament scene. Thanks.

So are you asking if people would object to a Falcon in a Harlequin army, painted in their pattern?

I don't think anyone would bat an eye at that. Hell in my day that was the norm, Harlies didn't have any other transport option.

 Orkeosaurus wrote:
So are you asking if people would object to a Falcon in a Harlequin army, painted in their pattern?

I don't think anyone would bat an eye at that. Hell in my day that was the norm, Harlies didn't have any other transport option.

Yeah, that's the gist of it. I have this weird knot in my skull wanting to just use the 8 Harlequin units available, but I'd also like to win an occasional game.

Even the lists I could come up with that I liked and fit the models I have usually had 65-70 points left over, so I was going to paint up a Clown Vyper and toss it in just to use the points, I just don't want to get "side-eye" from people for bringing a couple other things along. Like I said, I've never been, and don't want to be, "that guy."

Looking online at lists and battle reports and such, it seems to be fairly normal, just making sure.

As a casual Imperial Knight player, I used to have some ideas about being "that guy." Then I met people who are horrible players.

Your list has zero to do with attitude. Have fun, enjoy your models, and everyone will enjoy the game.

 Lathe Biosas wrote:
As a casual Imperial Knight player, I used to have some ideas about being "that guy." Then I met people who are horrible players.

Your list has zero to do with attitude. Have fun, enjoy your models, and everyone will enjoy the game.

That's the exact goal. And why I'm polling the populace.

I play a scions list, and we have a grand total of 3 units and one transport lol. So like your murder clowns you have to find away to fit in other things. Keep it fluffy even if it’s only your head fluff and people can’t complain.

I base mine around the idea of a drop regiment so I allow sentinels and knight armigers as they could potentially fit under a sky talon, rattling because they could have been the forward scouts and balks as transport but ban my self from taking tanks

Is it an optimal list no, is it fun and fluffy yes, can it win a tourney 1 out of 7 so far. Llimiting your army and not brining the current meta army turns out to realy mess with some players

"Powergaming" is Roboute Guilliman personally taking command over every minor skirmish in the galaxy.

Personally, I say do what you want.

I'd tend to echo the rest that if you are friendly player just looking to have fun then you should be fine.

There can be some tension when people try to set up a casual/fluffy tournament and some people bring a current meta list (which they try to justify with some random backstory). But tbh they are usually easy to spot.

I don't think anyone's that upset about Harlequins at the moment. I think some people would prefer to play you - regardless of how many falcons you bring - just for the variety versus more conventional CWE or Ynnari.

 BorderCountess wrote:
"Powergaming" is Roboute Guilliman personally taking command over every minor skirmish in the galaxy.

Personally, I say do what you want.

Don't forget, He needs his good buddy Marneus Calgar to help lead a squad or two.

Tyel wrote:
I'd tend to echo the rest that if you are friendly player just looking to have fun then you should be fine.

There can be some tension when people try to set up a casual/fluffy tournament and some people bring a current meta list (which they try to justify with some random backstory). But tbh they are usually easy to spot.

I don't think anyone's that upset about Harlequins at the moment. I think some people would prefer to play you - regardless of how many falcons you bring - just for the variety versus more conventional CWE or Ynnari.

I was kinda hoping this was the case. And yeah, if I wanted to win, it would be 2000 points of Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, etc. riding around in a half-dozen Falcons and Wave Serpents. I can field that army with all of the minis I have, but I would be EXTREMELY selective about which events I brought some hideous crap like that too. I'd have to know in advance that's the kind of event it is, and that's expected.

Thanks for all the comments, everyone.

Kagetora wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I'd tend to echo the rest that if you are friendly player just looking to have fun then you should be fine.

There can be some tension when people try to set up a casual/fluffy tournament and some people bring a current meta list (which they try to justify with some random backstory). But tbh they are usually easy to spot.

I don't think anyone's that upset about Harlequins at the moment. I think some people would prefer to play you - regardless of how many falcons you bring - just for the variety versus more conventional CWE or Ynnari.

I was kinda hoping this was the case. And yeah, if I wanted to win, it would be 2000 points of Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, etc. riding around in a half-dozen Falcons and Wave Serpents. I can field that army with all of the minis I have, but I would be EXTREMELY selective about which events I brought some hideous crap like that too. I'd have to know in advance that's the kind of event it is, and that's expected.

Thanks for all the comments, everyone.

It's a 40k tourney. It's already that kind of event.
Has been since 2018 or so.
So bring whatever legal mix of whatever you like.

Kagetora wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I'd tend to echo the rest that if you are friendly player just looking to have fun then you should be fine.

There can be some tension when people try to set up a casual/fluffy tournament and some people bring a current meta list (which they try to justify with some random backstory). But tbh they are usually easy to spot.

I don't think anyone's that upset about Harlequins at the moment. I think some people would prefer to play you - regardless of how many falcons you bring - just for the variety versus more conventional CWE or Ynnari.

I was kinda hoping this was the case. And yeah, if I wanted to win, it would be 2000 points of Dire Avengers, Fire Dragons, Dark Reapers, etc. riding around in a half-dozen Falcons and Wave Serpents. I can field that army with all of the minis I have, but I would be EXTREMELY selective about which events I brought some hideous crap like that too. I'd have to know in advance that's the kind of event it is, and that's expected.

Thanks for all the comments, everyone.

Composition and painting scores haven't been a thing in tournaments for a long time. On top of that, you'll find pretty much every tournament from a small RTT in a local store to the largest GTs will have people taking the best meta picks. Every event is "that kind of event". The only events where I would say you might need to think about the power level of your army would be ones aimed specifically at new or returning players as a way to get them into the hobby. In that case, the organiser of the event should be making sure everyone fits in with the expectations.

Kagetora wrote:

Yeah, that's the gist of it. I have this weird knot in my skull wanting to just use the 8 Harlequin units available, but I'd also like to win an occasional game.

Even the lists I could come up with that I liked and fit the models I have usually had 65-70 points left over, so I was going to paint up a Clown Vyper and toss it in just to use the points, I just don't want to get "side-eye" from people for bringing a couple other things along. Like I said, I've never been, and don't want to be, "that guy."

Looking online at lists and battle reports and such, it seems to be fairly normal, just making sure.

That knot is a result of GW in its worst excesses, telling you that how you paint your guys should define your rules and if you want different rules you should buy a second set of guys and paint them a different color. I mean, once upon a time Harlequins were very much just someone's cool custom paint job on an Eldar force. Someone said, "my Eldar are murder clowns" and people thought that was cool enough that GW released some unique plastic and rules for them, but has made zero effort since to make them stand on their own since.

As someone who also started with Death Masque, I'm a big fan of the return to applying the rules I want to the color scheme I choose. Absolutely paint your Eldar as murder clowns. Play with the range of toys GW has actually supported and give them the cool vibe that drew you in a decade ago. It's not like GW molded the checkered patterns onto the paints to begin with. If you can freehand them on the Troupe, you can freehand them on a Phoenix Lorde.

The Harlequins have been around since Rogue Trader - put some respect on the name of the Murder Clowns.

As someone who's played full Kroot for a long time and have been recenlty blessed with our upgrade to 9 whole datasheets, I've often been compared to Harlequin players in the restriction of what my army could actually bring to the table.

I have this same itch of everything must be Kroot, no Tau, or there's just something not quite right about the army. To get around that, to a small extent, I came up with a lot of lore for my Kindred and reasons why some other units might be present. For example, there's a (comparatively) low ranking Ethereal ambassador to Pech that has studied the ways of the Kroot to foster closer relationships, so I run her as either an Ethereal or Darkstrider when I want access to either of those, but I only ever run 1 to fit the story. I'll also occasionally work in some Vespid as many Kroot have a good working relationship with them and it still fits in with the Auxilliary theme, even if they aren't technically Kroot.

 LunarSol wrote:

Kagetora wrote:

Yeah, that's the gist of it. I have this weird knot in my skull wanting to just use the 8 Harlequin units available, but I'd also like to win an occasional game.

Even the lists I could come up with that I liked and fit the models I have usually had 65-70 points left over, so I was going to paint up a Clown Vyper and toss it in just to use the points, I just don't want to get "side-eye" from people for bringing a couple other things along. Like I said, I've never been, and don't want to be, "that guy."

Looking online at lists and battle reports and such, it seems to be fairly normal, just making sure.

That knot is a result of GW in its worst excesses, telling you that how you paint your guys should define your rules and if you want different rules you should buy a second set of guys and paint them a different color. I mean, once upon a time Harlequins were very much just someone's cool custom paint job on an Eldar force. Someone said, "my Eldar are murder clowns" and people thought that was cool enough that GW released some unique plastic and rules for them, but has made zero effort since to make them stand on their own since.

That's an interesting point, and it makes me think another part of the reason I hesitate to "paint outside the box" as it were is that I've actually been "Squatted," long ago. That is to say, overnight an entire army I bought, modeled, and painted (admittedly poorly) simply disappeared, became invalid, and never returned. It wasn't the Squats, it was the Slann, but the effect was identical.

Now I look at spending another $100+ on a couple more Falcon kits and wonder "Will these models still be allowed in the list in a couple of years, or will GW nix Harlequin from using them by putting them in a separate book or something similar?" At which point I'd have a couple of Harlequin-themed paperweights.

GW treats its customers and players pretty poorly, and has for 30+ years now. They occasionally get something right, but most often not. If they weren't pretty much the only game in town, I'd probably play something else. I have in the past, but most of those games are now out of business or functionally extinct from a player base standpoint.

I definitely think in terms of squatting it makes sense to move towards some of the safer pillars overall, but at the same time, I think the move towards separating paint from rules also makes it a lot easier to weather change. I'm not really worried about anything Craftworld going away; even things getting replaced will likely see the old stuff hitting tables for a while after. Painting a Craftworld in Harlequin colors just means you get the army you want in a form that can shift towards the most preferable rules. If Quins stick around, play them as is, but if they get cut, there's no reality in which a Shadowseer isn't one of the best looking Farseers out there.

I'd basically been wanting to do this with my Deathwatch for a while. Lean into core Space Marines and play them under whatever chapter rules I wanted. I had started down that path early in 10th, so when DW got squatted it didn't hugely phase me, but now that they're back I'm happy to play the new index too. I'll probably look to take it further and add some silver armed Sanguinaries and black armored wolves in the future.

Kagetora wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Kagetora wrote:

Yeah, that's the gist of it. I have this weird knot in my skull wanting to just use the 8 Harlequin units available, but I'd also like to win an occasional game.

Even the lists I could come up with that I liked and fit the models I have usually had 65-70 points left over, so I was going to paint up a Clown Vyper and toss it in just to use the points, I just don't want to get "side-eye" from people for bringing a couple other things along. Like I said, I've never been, and don't want to be, "that guy."

Looking online at lists and battle reports and such, it seems to be fairly normal, just making sure.

That knot is a result of GW in its worst excesses, telling you that how you paint your guys should define your rules and if you want different rules you should buy a second set of guys and paint them a different color. I mean, once upon a time Harlequins were very much just someone's cool custom paint job on an Eldar force. Someone said, "my Eldar are murder clowns" and people thought that was cool enough that GW released some unique plastic and rules for them, but has made zero effort since to make them stand on their own since.

That's an interesting point, and it makes me think another part of the reason I hesitate to "paint outside the box" as it were is that I've actually been "Squatted," long ago. That is to say, overnight an entire army I bought, modeled, and painted (admittedly poorly) simply disappeared, became invalid, and never returned. It wasn't the Squats, it was the Slann, but the effect was identical.

Now I look at spending another $100+ on a couple more Falcon kits and wonder "Will these models still be allowed in the list in a couple of years, or will GW nix Harlequin from using them by putting them in a separate book or something similar?" At which point I'd have a couple of Harlequin-themed paperweights.

GW treats its customers and players pretty poorly, and has for 30+ years now. They occasionally get something right, but most often not. If they weren't pretty much the only game in town, I'd probably play something else. I have in the past, but most of those games are now out of business or functionally extinct from a player base standpoint.

Looking at my Death Guard Obliterators, Bikers and Raptors I get what you're saying. Though I'll also have to say 40K usually is big enough to find substitutes or other ways to use your toys. Legends are the most obvious one and GW updates them every edition (some things get tossed out for no reason, though). Allies are another one, which sometimes exist or not or are 25% or whatever the designers currently felt sounded cool. Just using them in another army is also an option (So you got some aspect warriors, tanks and what not, just with funky clown colors? Chances are you'll have a playable Craftworld army).
Overall I'll have to say GWs treatment of Harlequins appears pretty stable to me, I think you have less to fear than, say... the whole Dark Eldar faction. But even those I expect to get renewed in the next edition. GW in recent times supported any faction, really. Their hostility towards options and weapon swaps in recent rulebooks is what's holding the possibilities I mentioned back and sometimes makes me fear updated kits (let's just hope GW never updates the Ork nobs kit, for example), but chances are always high that every faction will receive something new at some point. World Eaters and Cemperor's children appear pretty terrible right now, but that might be different within the next 3 years.

And if all of it turns out to be rubbish you can just go and use a different rules system.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:


Looking at my Death Guard Obliterators, Bikers and Raptors I get what you're saying. Though I'll also have to say 40K usually is big enough to find substitutes or other ways to use your toys. Legends are the most obvious one and GW updates them every edition (some things get tossed out for no reason, though). Allies are another one, which sometimes exist or not or are 25% or whatever the designers currently felt sounded cool. Just using them in another army is also an option (So you got some aspect warriors, tanks and what not, just with funky clown colors? Chances are you'll have a playable Craftworld army).
Overall I'll have to say GWs treatment of Harlequins appears pretty stable to me, I think you have less to fear than, say... the whole Dark Eldar faction. But even those I expect to get renewed in the next edition. GW in recent times supported any faction, really. Their hostility towards options and weapon swaps in recent rulebooks is what's holding the possibilities I mentioned back and sometimes makes me fear updated kits (let's just hope GW never updates the Ork nobs kit, for example), but chances are always high that every faction will receive something new at some point. World Eaters and Cemperor's children appear pretty terrible right now, but that might be different within the next 3 years.

And if all of it turns out to be rubbish you can just go and use a different rules system.

Yeah, all of that makes sense, but I'm kind of tired of GW's business practices. I mean, they basically destroyed WHFB. Now it's 40K with Fantasy minis. That still boggles my mind. As far as the Murder Clowns go, I expect that when I model them up to have a couple Fusion Pistols and Neuro Disruptors per squad on 25mm bases, those rules will change next edition again, and I'm either ripping arms off and buying base extenders or painting up some new minis. I really try my best to magnetize as much as I can possibly do, from the weapons on the tanks to base attachment points. I got some 2mmx1mm neodymium magnets, and some 1mmx1mm on the way, I may even try magnetizing some arms, or maybe just some hands. I dunno. Maybe that's kind of ridiculous too. Oh well, won't be the first time I've done some oddball stuff.