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This is a 10e only question.
And it only pretains to forces you actually play.

Pick a faction you play. What is your LEAST favorite unit in it & why?

Mine: Space Wolves
Least favorite unit: Thunderwolf Cavalry. And any variation (ie characters riding wolves)
Why: I just think they look stupid.
Rules wise I've no issues, but estheticly.... Nope.
And if im facing off against them? I will go out of my way to kill these things 1st. My opponents generally think I'm doing it for tactical reasons (they are dangerous enough afterall) & are surprised when they learn otherwise.

Naturally I dont own, let alone play with, these things.

How about you?

Noisemarines...used to be a core of my EC before the crapification/codex release made me not want to play at all.

Firestrike turrets: Defense if for guard. Goes against the theme of the army IMHO. I know some chapters do siege work, but static defenses are not something I want in my marine lists. Also, anything with a stubber. We use bolters. So things like the brutalis dread where you need to take them go right on the black list.

Norn assimilators/emissary. Over detailed, over sized, unneeded. Would rather have had a FW titan in plastic then these guys. We don’t need yet another bigger monster. Call me an old grognard, but I was happy when carnafexes were big and mean. Now they are like 3rd string.

Eldar heavy support weapons. It might be the windrider in me, but too chonky and slow. Getting mud on your boots is for lesser races. Everyone should be in a transport or on a bike IMHO. Exceptions can be made for cool models, like wraithlords. But the big guns are not cool enough to get a waiver.

Concept wise almost any marine unit released since they first released centurions.

They ran out of ideas and it shows.

I played space Wolves since 2nd ed and the thunder wolf cavalry addition just made me stop playing. They are such a stupid flanderisation.

I was tempted to put a biker marine and a hunting wolf on a large base together and counts as thunder wolves, but it I never got around to it.

If they had bike mounted head hunters instead of thunder wolf cavalry that would be great.

Eldar: Webway gate. I think it's legends now, but it was just never allowed to be useful. They went out of their way to keep it unplayable at all times to the point that it was actively more of a liability in your list than an asset. And not just in a "points inefficiency" kind of way. I love the model and the idea of using the webway in the middle of a fight, so this is very much a case of what might have been contrasting with what we got.

Also skyweavers. I *want* to like them, but something about them just doesn't quite click for me. The double-rider thing kind of takes away the samurai-with-glaive vibes you'd get from a single rider, and the bigger silhouette compared to other bikes makes it feel slower and less break-neck-speed-y. It's almost more of a chariot than a horse+rider situation, and I feel like it's hard to make chariots cool.

Drukhari: Hand of the Archon. It's not really *bad* models-wise or rules-wise. But I don't want to buy it because it feels like most of the box is just leftover bits from kabalite/wych/wrack sprues. Commorragh has so many cool nooks and crannies. We could have gotten a proper beast tamer box or a kit to explore sslyth or a box of oops-all-lhameans or... As-is, it kind of just feels like a wonky, clunky variation on a kabalite squad with a bit too much going on, and yet not enough interesting stuff going on.

Marines: Primaris lieutenants as a whole. Because as cool as they are individually, they've just been stealing so many release schedule slots since they came out... Hrm. Or the new primaris devastator guys. Those guns are just so goofy it's a real downgrade from the classic devastator look.

Chaos Marines: I don't much care for the appearance of obliterators, personally. I like their rules. I like their lore. The models just aren't quite there for me. Maybe if they focused more on making them look like they were actively shape-shifting?

Tau: Riptide and/or storm surge. Because while I love the mecha angle of the faction, these are kind of the quintessential units you point to when you want to talk about GW leaning into the suit thing to the detriment of exploring the alien auxiliary angle. The riptide/storm surge/ghost keel could all have been cool alien releases instead. Plus the riptides have been consistently annoying to play against since they came out.

GSC: Clamavus and Locus. Just the least cool of our character models and the options I'm least excited about adding to a list. But this is nitpicking. GSC are pretty great overall.

Thousand Sons: Have no bad models. Even the stiff-looking robots are nifty. My only nitpicks would be that the hellbrute is probably too organic for this particular army, and Magnus is a pain by virtue of warping the entire army around his existence. If you buy his model, you no longer play Thousand Sons; you play Magnus and backup for Magnus.

Tyranids: The screamer killer. It just doesn't fit the rets of the army's aesthetic. It would probably have fit in okay with the original model line's aesthetic, but it just doesn't match any more.

Sisters: Pain engines. The machines themselves look fine, but I want the "pilots" to be posed with a more visceral sense of agony. Something closer to the old 3rd edition talos model, maybe.

Nurgle Daemons: Beast of Nurgle. GW hasn't released a model that I like for them. I like the concept and the fluff about it, but I think all models for it end up looking silly (and I'll admit it IS silly in the fluff as well).

Orks:
Killrig. The Squiggy is too small and there's just too much stuff on that thing, even for orks.

Death Guard:
Well, I'll have to say Plague Marines? Not because of looks in any way, they're the reason I started the army after all. But I dislike how GW changed their loadout options every edition and ended up putting too much weapons on them that you always have to mix and because of that they make for tiresome attack phases. GW messing around with them might be one reason I gave up on 40K altogether and moved to OPR.

Knight Defender.

A faction with too many problems in small games to introduce yet another Questoris variant - especially carrying a Titan's void shield.

With my Ultramarines as the exception, I won't bring named characters. Too much of the game seems to revolve around them, and I dislike that.

As for non-unique units:

Firstborn Marines: Bikes, specifically Attack Bikes. Just too goofy looking.

Primaris Marines: Desolators. The only Primaris unit I will only collect if converted to have just regular missile launcher arms.

Imperial Guard: Ogryns/Bullgryns. Just not for me. I play guard for the roughly normal looking/sized humans - Ratlings are at least a little bit easier to stomach and hide away. And the Taurox/Taurox Prime. Chimera is just better.

Sisters: Arcoflagellants, Sanctifiers, Ministorum Priests. I came here to play Sisters, not weaponised criminals and lackeys.

Imperial Knights: Not a massive fan of any of the Dominus Knights, or the many of the FW Knights. The Lancer is the exception to that.

Chaos Marines: Chaos Bikers, for the same reason as Firstborn. Fellgor Beastmen, just because they feel like they're not really in the Chaos Space Marine bracket - I give a pass to the human cultists, but not to Beastmen. Would be better off in an Agents of Chaos codex.

Dark Eldar: Wracks or Hellions. Haemonculus Covens doesn't feel like it needs a foot soldier archetype, and Wracks just don't appeal. Hellions are too similar to Reavers imo to be worth the difference.

Necrons: C'tan. Just too unfun to play with or against, and I prefer Necrons to their gods/pokemon. Outside of that, probably Skorpekh units and Tomb Blades.

T'au: Stormsurge. The Riptide is as big as battlesuits should go, imo. Anything weapons needed to be bigger should be tank or aircraft mounted, like railguns on Hammerheads.

Tyranids: Maleceptor. Just looks weird.

Dark Eldar: Wracks or Hellions. Haemonculus Covens doesn't feel like it needs a foot soldier archetype, and Wracks just don't appeal. Hellions are too similar to Reavers imo to be worth the difference.

While hellions are considered quite good at the moment, I really feel like their special rule should have just been to move through ruins like infantry the same way shining spears do. It would help lean into the idea that they're more agile where reavers have more raw speed (a thing that games like Gangs of Commorragh have leaned into). It would have been a subtle-but-impactful way to make the units play very differently and would also make it easier to use hellions as conventional deepstrike melee units that you can safely rapid ingress behind a wall without having to worry about them not being able to move far enough to reach their target on the next turn.

For the AD Mech - The Sydonian Skatros, all three Archaeopter types and both Pteraxii types.

I really hate the design direction they have been going with the Ad Mech for a while. The Da Vinci look they have been going for them is just stupid which I could forgive if they actually started releasing the bulky robots hat I love that they got in 30k in 40k or at least different robots for 40k.

I played 2nd and only a single game of 3rd but have been trying to get back into the game. For me, anything primaris. IMHO It was just a stupid idea and completely went against the background of what I remember 40k being (Especially starting Space Marine 2 on PC and hearing their explanation of Primaris.)
Fallen space marines weren't reincarnated, Apothecaries would harvest the gene seed to be placed into a new marine. It was a whole thing and gene seeds were held as sacred. Then there's just watching my entire collection I've been able to rebuild over the years all go to legends... On top of that, I really don't like the look of many of the new(er) marine models, all the new dreadnaughts, tanks, flying drill-bit guys, bikers, they all just look stupid to me.

The kill rig/hunta rig. I'm already not a huge fan of the beastsnagga optics, but the rigs just look way to fragile to match their lore which essentially being huge squig-drawn charriots for dozens of boyz.

They look like they'd fall apart on the first hit and flip over when the squig takes a sharp turn. IMO not orky enough.

Dark Eldar - Hand of the Archon.

Literally the only new unit we've received since 5th and the best they could come up with was a glorified Kabalite unit. And their wargear options look like what you'd get if Microsoft Access could vomit.

Apart from the fact that they have the exact same limitations as regular Kabalites when it comes to heavy/special weapons, their only unique wargear is a random selection of melee weapons.

It's even more baffling that Wych weapons were condensed - allegedly to remove complexity - yet then they add a new unit with about 3 variations of 'mediocre melee weapon', all of which are one-per-unit.

And that's before we even mention the fact that it's a ranged unit that can trade actual ranged attacks for the ability for a few members to be mediocre at melee (while the rest of the unit is outright abysmal in melee and still wants to shoot).


Necrons - Lokhust Lord

Remember when this guy used to actually be worth a damn? When he could fly across the battlefield with a unit of Wraiths or the like. Those were the days.

Alas, at some point GW decided that a unit that had literally exchanged its lower body for a jetbike was not allowed to be remotely fast.

And then they decided that a melee lord was only allowed to buff ranged units. Not so bad when there were some decent artifact Staff of Light options available for the Destroyer Lord, but then 10th decided that all options that might be considered fun were to be systematically expunged.

Still, Necrons have some decent hybrid units. Wraiths can take gun, Triarch Praetorians have gun-staff things, so at least he can buff their shooting before they get into melee.

Oh wait, no he can't. Because literally the only units the Destroyer Lord is allowed to join are Lokhust Destroyers and Lokhust Heavy Destroyers - both solely ranged units with no melee capability whatsoever.

Because what I really want from my melee lords is the thrill and excitement of having them sit at the back of the battlefield, reading a newspaper and doing naff-all.


Runner up is the Annihilation Barge which has not been able to annihilate anything since 7th, because the gelatinous mass that is the GW design team apparently still hasn't worked out that AP0 does not make for an effective anti-vehicle weapon.

 Hellebore wrote:
Concept wise almost any marine unit released since they first released centurions.

They ran out of ideas and it shows.

I'm with this.

Stormraven is kinda reasonable but the execution is just so awful.

kaotkbliss wrote:
I played 2nd and only a single game of 3rd but have been trying to get back into the game. For me, anything primaris. IMHO It was just a stupid idea and completely went against the background of what I remember 40k being (Especially starting Space Marine 2 on PC and hearing their explanation of Primaris.)
Fallen space marines weren't reincarnated, Apothecaries would harvest the gene seed to be placed into a new marine. It was a whole thing and gene seeds were held as sacred. Then there's just watching my entire collection I've been able to rebuild over the years all go to legends... On top of that, I really don't like the look of many of the new(er) marine models, all the new dreadnaughts, tanks, flying drill-bit guys, bikers, they all just look stupid to me.

What? Primaris aren’t “reincarnated” Space Marines, and gene seed is still plenty sacred. If anything, they’re just a couple extra organs and some new duds for SM.

 RaptorusRex wrote:


What? Primaris aren’t “reincarnated” Space Marines, and gene seed is still plenty sacred. If anything, they’re just a couple extra organs and some new duds for SM.

Admittedly, I haven't read through the rulebooks on the Primaris yet, but that's the entire premise for the Space Marine 2 game, "what's-his-face" from the first game gets stabbed through the chest and dies, and the tech-priests rebuild his body and bring him back to life as a primaris.
Nope. The Apothecary should have harvested his gene seed and placed it in a new marine.

 Nevelon wrote:
Firestrike turrets: Defense if for guard. Goes against the theme of the army IMHO. I know some chapters do siege work, but static defenses are not something I want in my marine lists. Also, anything with a stubber. We use bolters. So things like the brutalis dread where you need to take them go right on the black list.

Norn assimilators/emissary. Over detailed, over sized, unneeded. Would rather have had a FW titan in plastic then these guys. We don’t need yet another bigger monster. Call me an old grognard, but I was happy when carnafexes were big and mean. Now they are like 3rd string.

Eldar heavy support weapons. It might be the windrider in me, but too chonky and slow. Getting mud on your boots is for lesser races. Everyone should be in a transport or on a bike IMHO. Exceptions can be made for cool models, like wraithlords. But the big guns are not cool enough to get a waiver.

I think these are all good points while I do have some additional thoughts...

Firestrike turrets I immediately liked because of nostalgia for Mission: Dreadnought, but I feel that your point stands. GW goes overboard with Marines and Stormcasts, to the point where it's unnecessary bloat for the sake of pushing those two intended "bread winners". We end up with things like Dragon Princes, which should have been their own faction as an Order alternative to Sons of Behemat - fantasy alternatives to Imperial and Chaos Knights, respectively. Buggies, Invictor Warsuits and T-Shirt launchers...could easily have done without them by letting other poster boy chapters get their refresh.

I love monster tyranids, but they were already reintroducing the beloved Screamer Killer. Its annoying to wait so long for that classic tyranid unit to return, only to then be told "online only" and we have to buy a floating Hive Tyrant as well. The Norns' at least have the size of a Knight, but the Trygon was already filling that niche.

I like the Eldar heavy support as I'm collecting a Guardian-Seer army, where I'm going for a Jedi-Clone army theme and avoiding the all-to-common "biker gang" theme we see for the Eldar - something I feel that the Harlequins and Drukhari are locked into, and the Craftworlds appeal is in exploring other compositions. When you have three different factions doing the same thing...hmm. I have two "heavies" and quite like the models, but I feel that they need an oval base and maybe just a single operator to make them look less cluttered.

kaotkbliss wrote:

 RaptorusRex wrote:


What? Primaris aren’t “reincarnated” Space Marines, and gene seed is still plenty sacred. If anything, they’re just a couple extra organs and some new duds for SM.

Admittedly, I haven't read through the rulebooks on the Primaris yet, but that's the entire premise for the Space Marine 2 game, "what's-his-face" from the first game gets stabbed through the chest and dies, and the tech-priests rebuild his body and bring him back to life as a primaris.
Nope. The Apothecary should have harvested his gene seed and placed it in a new marine.

That's not how I understood it. He basically did the same thing as Ragnar Blackmane, his wounds were mortal so they tried to save Titus via the Rubicon Primaris, which is not really resurrection.

Edit: which is kind of incoherent in GWs fluff as well, on the one hand the rubicon is described as extremely dangerous and only the strongest SM (read: named characters) survive this, on the other hand they like to do it with half-dead guys and somehow it even works.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:


That's not how I understood it. He basically did the same thing as Ragnar Blackmane, his wounds were mortal so they tried to save Titus via the Rubicon Primaris, which is not really resurrection.

Edit: which is kind of incoherent in GWs fluff as well, on the one hand the rubicon is described as extremely dangerous and only the strongest SM (read: named characters) survive this, on the other hand they like to do it with half-dead guys and somehow it even works.

You could be right, but I still don't like it, or most of the new models for marines.
I think it would have gone over a lot better (at least for me) if they had just separated Primaris into a new faction. (Not that the "Good guys" needed yet another army)
You could have your firstborn chapters, then the Primaris chapter.
I know legends are still playable, but I'm afraid that time is limited before they just drop them completely in an edition or 2. (I hope I'm wrong)

IG: the Rogal Dorn. We already had two "not-quite-super-heavies" in the Macharius and Malcador (and the not-quite-super-heavy APC, the CRASSUS ARMOURED ASSAULT TRANSPORT, which is kinda the Macharius with a different hull). If GW wanted a plastic not-quite-super-heavy, they should've just taken one of those and spent the creative energy on making something that actually fills a niche in the IG roster (eg, a new light/medium vehicle or new/updated regiments).
We especially did not need a superfluous not-quite-super-heavy named after a fething Space Marine.

kaotkbliss wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:


That's not how I understood it. He basically did the same thing as Ragnar Blackmane, his wounds were mortal so they tried to save Titus via the Rubicon Primaris, which is not really resurrection.

Edit: which is kind of incoherent in GWs fluff as well, on the one hand the rubicon is described as extremely dangerous and only the strongest SM (read: named characters) survive this, on the other hand they like to do it with half-dead guys and somehow it even works.

You could be right, but I still don't like it, or most of the new models for marines.
I think it would have gone over a lot better (at least for me) if they had just separated Primaris into a new faction. (Not that the "Good guys" needed yet another army)
You could have your firstborn chapters, then the Primaris chapter.
I know legends are still playable, but I'm afraid that time is limited before they just drop them completely in an edition or 2. (I hope I'm wrong)

Separating the two SM ranges is what they did/tried in 8th and it was quite terrible to be honest (Primaris not fitting inside Land Raiders and stuff...)
I think what GW is in the process of doing is actually bringing back the old Marines step by step by just releasing them as bigger versions again, Vanguard, Scouts, Terminators, rumors say even the Tacticsl Marine is about to make a return. In the end you'll probably end up with a broader SM roster but the Firstborn units will still be there in some way. Devastators might be the one unit that's not returning as it has been split up into 4 other units already.

Overall I get what you're saying and support it. To me CSM always were the prettier Marines and that difference has become even more obvious with Primaris. I'm quite miffed that in SM 2 I can use cool MKIII armour only in the PvP Mode