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With or w/o retinue? Incubi or warriors? Skyboard or arrive via warp portal?

Also, are scourges worth taking? They are kind of fragile but can do some serious damage.

Around here it is min maxed with dark lances and agonizers. Lord and incubi in raider being extremely strategic with them, and a couple ravegers. It seems to do pretty well.

Been playing them for a bit recently, here is my build:

Archon - never any Incubi.  Archon usually on foot to support webway units, or deployed in Raider w warriors.  Combat drugs + fleet + normal move usually gets him where I need him.

3 units of Wyches

Agonizers anywhere I can.

Warriors (on foot for webway), raiders otherwise - blasters/splinter cannon

Raiders with Dark Lance, Ravagers 1 DL, 2 Disin - I outfit them all with Horrofexes (for the extra couple points, the chance to pin is great)

1 Haemonculus for webway

No skyboards, jetbikes, or scourges.

 

I just thought of a possibility with scourges. Could a group of them with a leader w/ combatty upgrades and splinter cannons as the weapons.

16 splinter cannon shots and the charge. May be able to do something. Of course, may clear all the models that they can charge out to.

The Splinter Cannon upgrade on Scourges costs 80 points for the 4 of them... that's a lot of points, on top of their already high cost, for a T3, Sv 5+ model. 

Sure, that's 16 shots, hit about 10-11, against T4, wound 5-6.  Marines save all but maybe 2.  Any return fire would be murderous, and they're only S3 models in assault (and there are only 5 of them). 

They don't seem to work as heavy weapon platforms (too fragile), and they don't work with splinter cannons (expensive and fragile).  I don't know what to suggest with re: to them...

 

I do not use a retinue, or scourges. I found that a retinue can be made to fail leadership and fall back, taking my lord with it. And scourges are just too fragile and expensive. A carefully placed and used Ravager is cheaper and more effective.

My Archon is always attached to a Raider squad (warriors or wytches) and usually fights seperately once disembarked.

I outfit her with a punisher and hunt regular troops although I have on occasion had to send her against Hive Tyrants that have been tooled up for CC. It takes a few turns but when accompanied by anything with an agonizer (sybarite, succubus) she usualy can take one down.

For Dark eldar,
Here is what I usualy bring.

2    Dracons on jetbike with agoniser and tormenter helm and somtimes       combat drugs
1    Squad of 5 jetbikes with 2 blasters sgt with agoniser.

4  10 man dark eldar warrior squads with 2 dark lances (400pts total)
     Hard to complain about 40 bs4 shots for that few points.

2  10 man dark eldar raider squads with 2 blasters and a sgt with an         agoniser.   The raider has  a night sheild thing (thing that adds range to     incomming shots)

3 Talos's (there cheap wriathlords) That can stand up to fire.

Any extra points are spent on witch raider squads.

Umm. Wraithlords have guns that kill the enemy. Talos have guns that are actually better at killing your own guys than the vast amount of opponents you face.

You are more likely to kill your own guys with Talos than you are to manage a kill on an MEQ.

Furthermore, Wraithlords are tougher and do more damage in close combat. I'm not seeing why you should take one. They may kill more line type troops though, but they are not worth their points, especially considering how slow they are.

Too bad, I hadn't crunched the numbers, but I hoped.

Army I'm running now in tourneys is as follows

Archon on bike w/PW, TH, Drugs, Hell Mask (which I always forget about) and SF

3 x Wych sqads: 7 wyches w/WW, 2Xblaster; succubus w/Agonizer & SP (in raiders)

3 x Warrior squads: 8 x SR, 2 x DL

2 x Warrior squads: 10 x SR, 2 x SC, 2 x Blaster; Sybarrite w/Punisher & TH, Trophy Racks and WWP

2 x Ravager; 1 x DL, 2 x Dis.

I think I have a warp beast pack in there, too, but not positive from memory.

Usually, the only thing that starts on the board are the various warrior squads. It requires some good use of cover and paying attention to firing lanes. Even so, I have once had both WWP squads shot off the board (back when I had the WWP's in 10 man squads). Hasn't happened since I moved the WWPs to the larger squads. Start with 50 models in five units on the board, and the rest of the hurty stuff in the portals.

It isn't the most stupendous list on the planet, but I am 14-2-2 in RTT play with it, including 2 best generals.

Sal.

Posted By The Happy Anarchist on 07/20/2006 1:15 PM
Umm. Wraithlords have guns that kill the enemy. Talos have guns that are actually better at killing your own guys than the vast amount of opponents you face.

You are more likely to kill your own guys with Talos than you are to manage a kill on an MEQ.

Furthermore, Wraithlords are tougher and do more damage in close combat. I'm not seeing why you should take one. They may kill more line type troops though, but they are not worth their points, especially considering how slow they are.

Too bad, I hadn't crunched the numbers, but I hoped.

The Happy Anarchist: You are correct that they don't have good guns.  But correct me if I am wrong?  (no codex on me)  I thought a talos only fired at your own troops when I fire frenzied?    Even then doesn't it only fire at you if it cant see any enemy?    Overall I bring them b/c the dark eldar need some type of hard unit on the field, and for a measly 100 pts they fit the counter attack/slow advance bill for me.  Now they may not work for everyone, but I have seen more MEQ complain about them than anything else.  On top of that they are for some reason a fire magnet (well in my area).

I used to play the Talos a good bit, but I have gotten away from it in my general list for the following reasons.

1. It is quite slow. It cannot keep up with my assaulty elements.

2. It gives my opponents a target worth shooting at with their big guns. My ravagers are also worthy targets, but they can at least make use of the SMF rule, and they don't have to be right in front of the enemy moving across the board to be effective the way a Talos does.

3. The number of attacks is quite unpredictable in close combat. Also, even though it is a monstrous creature, the BGB makes it clear that it still uses its Talos Claws rule for armor penetration. I would much rather have str 7 + 2d6 for armor pen.

4. The Talos goes down like a virgin on prom night when there is a hidden power fist or critters with rending in assault with it.

5. The model stinks on ice.

6. The gun stinks worse. It's only redeeming value is the ability to snipe seargents and special weapons models due to the specific way that the Wildfire rule works. It takes a lot of luck, but it happens from time to time.

Anyway, I'll take the two dissie ravager over the talos almost every time, even at 15 points more.

Also, Taloi do not blood/fire frenzy. That is a chaos dreadnaught thing. Re-read the Wildfire rule in the codex and you'll see what I mean.

Sal.

Posted By Saldiven on 07/20/2006 2:42 PM
I used to play the Talos a good bit, but I have gotten away from it in my general list for the following reasons.

1. It is quite slow. It cannot keep up with my assaulty elements.

2. It gives my opponents a target worth shooting at with their big guns. My ravagers are also worthy targets, but they can at least make use of the SMF rule, and they don't have to be right in front of the enemy moving across the board to be effective the way a Talos does.

3. The number of attacks is quite unpredictable in close combat. Also, even though it is a monstrous creature, the BGB makes it clear that it still uses its Talos Claws rule for armor penetration. I would much rather have str 7 + 2d6 for armor pen.

4. The Talos goes down like a virgin on prom night when there is a hidden power fist or critters with rending in assault with it.

5. The model stinks on ice.

6. The gun stinks worse. It's only redeeming value is the ability to snipe seargents and special weapons models due to the specific way that the Wildfire rule works. It takes a lot of luck, but it happens from time to time.

Anyway, I'll take the two dissie ravager over the talos almost every time, even at 15 points more.

Also, Taloi do not blood/fire frenzy. That is a chaos dreadnaught thing. Re-read the Wildfire rule in the codex and you'll see what I mean.

Sal.

Your probably right as far a wildfire.  I havent played DE since 4th edition came out!  Like i said the talos, just works for me!

It works for you, because apparently people in your area don't know how to ignore it.

I don't see the point of a 100 point model that will kill more of my guys than the other gusy (the wildfire basically just shoots at whatever is closest, the only preference to enemy models is if there is a tie) and can't beat much in close combat, losing out to WLs, any choppy characters, dreads. Even a small squad of marines with a fist has good odds.

The Happy Anarchist:

It works for you, because apparently people in your area don't know how to ignore it.

Well first off this will be my last reply! I can reply with the same sarcasm.

It doesn?t works for you, because apparently you don't know how to properly use one.

If I have misinterpreted your sarcasm I am sorry! But in all honesty I don?t think I have! I was simply giving my ideas on the DE, if you dont like the talos, then please dont take one!


As for a few other things:

My apparently stupid local players who stubbornly refuse to ignore them. God forbid I be a good player play my 3 talos in such a way as to make it so they can?t ignore them. The way I play is a double-pronged pincer movement; The 3 talos units usually get there on turn 4, which is just about right as it usually seals the deal for me. Or even play something other than Meat grinder, gosh like take and hold. (I actually got them out yesterday. All I have to say is a unit of 3 in city fight is nasty and takes a lot of effort to dislodge them from confined areas)

Wildfire: I looked at my rulebook again; I simply don?t fire the gun! (Well until I am absolutely on top of my enemy.

Comparing to a wraithlord: Of course a wraithlord is better, but Dark eldar can?t have one. My point was simply that it makes a good substation for a list that can?t take said WL. I know of many armies that would love to have a 100 pt MC. Apparently you never saw 3 Wriathlords with no heavy weapons (well when you could field them that way) in a very affective army.

My problems with the other Heavy Support choices:

Ravager (hmm lets see most times the hide, then get one round of fire before you enemy evaporates them)

Scourges (I do like them with SC. But they always seem to go poof right after the get a turn of fire)

I find a DE army with a lot of agonisers wounding on a 50% chance with no save is really bloody annoying. I've seen two models armed with agonisers take down an entire tactical and command squad alone. The real trick with DE is to always have your men in close combat, especially wyches with a 6+sv. Once in, keep 'em consolidating and your opponent can't shoot them. No DE unit should be walking, a 5+ sv is just not up to the task of stopping anything in a space marine or Tau army, and even eldar shuriken catapults tear throught them. Either deepstrike or drop 'em through a WWP or mount them in a raider.

Incubi: my nemesis at my hobby store uses these guys to devastating effect: have them with your lord with agonisers - no armour sv and re-rolling misses in CC with combat drugs hurts. More if they manage to charge. They HAVE to be shot, or your men will be spewing their guts out in CC.