First time Gun buyer... any advice?

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**Monster Rain**

You can't lose, misplace, or fumble with a memorized and practiced combination.

**halonachos**

You can't lose a key that you keep in a spot well known to you, I can go all day about this, in fact you can get an electronic lock that you just push buttons on and its still a trigger lock.

**Monster Rain**

halonachos wrote:You can't lose a key that you keep in a spot well known to you,

Yes you can.

**Frazzled**

halonachos wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
halonachos wrote:Put a trigger lock on the shotgun and keep the key in a place that you know where it is. There's also lock boxes that go over the trigger and loading mechanism.

You're going to funble with finding a key, fidgeting it into the lock, getting that whole thing off and then going forward? You're a better man than me.

And fumbling with a combination lock is much easier? I guess that making sure the lock is reset, then turning it to the first number, then going around once before setting it to the second number before setting it on the final number is much easier then finding a key and turning it.

The one thing with pistols is that you do have to put them into a safe because its easy to fit a pistol into a pocket or backpack and many young children have brought handguns to school for innocent reasons, its much harder to hide a shotgun or rifle in a backpack.

Look at the safe again. It is a simple punch safe. I have in fact awakened and opened one in absolute darkness. Where is this key going to be?

**Monster Rain**

halonachos wrote:in fact you can get an electronic lock that you just push buttons on and its still a trigger lock.

Where do you stick the key?

**d-usa**

halonachos wrote:You can't lose a key that you keep in a spot well known to you, I can go all day about this, in fact you can get an electronic lock that you just push buttons on and its still a trigger lock.

That would be the way to go IMO.

I have a small save attached to the nightstand that has a electronic combination lock.

**Frazzled**

Monster Rain wrote:You can't lose, misplace, or fumble with a memorized and practiced combination.

I can literally open the safe in less than 2 seconds. I've timed it.

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halonachos wrote:You can't lose a key that you keep in a spot well known to you, I can go all day about this, in fact you can get an electronic lock that you just push buttons on and its still a trigger lock.

This I like better.

**halonachos**

I've never lost a key that I've kept in a specific spot, also Monster I said that there are electronic trigger locks, the point of it being electronic is to get rid of the key if you didn't want one. Either way, as long as you practice something you will be better at it because I'm sure that you didn't open your safe in two seconds as soon as you got it or the first time you worked with a safe.

**Melissia**

Samus_aran115 wrote:Melissia, what did you end up buying? I remember quite a while ago, you were looking to pick up a piece for the same sort of reasons

Nothing yet. I decided to upgrade my computer instead >.>

**Frazzled**

halonachos wrote:I've never lost a key that I've kept in a specific spot, also Monster I said that there are electronic trigger locks, the point of it being electronic is to get rid of the key if you didn't want one. Either way, as long as you practice something you will be better at it because I'm sure that you didn't open your safe in two seconds as soon as you got it or the first time you worked with a safe.

Well, you wouldn't have the key around where kids could get to it, but a push trigger key is more amenable to my thinking.

Would that work on an M1?

**AustonT**

You'll probably never hear me actually say "you shouldn't use that ammunition" because people need to make their own choices. I would however give you "great caution" in using shot size generally used for clay shooting (7 and above). The hats I shot up for 25,50,75, and 100 in trap all deflected #7.5 from the plastic brim. My favortie one that I still wear from skeet still has a #8 pellet in the brim. Its not to say it wont stop someone, and it will probably not exit your home...or the room, but I heartily implore you to consider at least testing your chosen loads performance on fruits and vegetables. I remember in my hunters safety course John Wayne told be that a cabage is about as dense as a human head, and theres always water melons wrapped in a goodwill tshirt and jacket.
Ultimately its up to you. I've landed on anything from BB to 4. With BB I can get honking 3 and 3 1/2 inch shells with four more conservative 2 3/4 are about all you can find (3's if you know where to look). Although I keep 2 3/4 00 in my SxS in the garage because there's a chance I have to make longer shots.

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Opps a litle belated thats for Monster Rain

**dogma**

frgsinwnt wrote: I'm 5'10" 250lbs but mostly muscle.... I go to the gym 4-5 days a week and bench over 300... I'm not THIN cause i don't like to diet and certainly don't like cardio, but I certainly am not fat... Most people guess my body weight as 175

Assuming everything you've said is accurate, you must know a lot of people that are awful at guessing body weight.

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Monster Rain wrote:You can't lose, misplace, or fumble with a memorized and practiced combination.

Combinations and keys can both be misplaced/forgotten, even with practice. I transpose my SSN all the time, and often have to hunt for my car keys.

**Monster Rain**

If you shoot a cabbage from 15 feet away with a #7 shell I think the damage would be sufficient to neutralize a threat. I say 15 feet because "home defense" type situations will typically take place at pretty close range.

**AustonT**

put a jacket or shirt on it, nothing too heavy, let not get ridiculous unless you live in a very cold clime. I'm not trying to dissuade you, just encouraging a realistic expectation. There's a 20G in my house with 6rds of 8shot in it, because I figure that if one doesnt do it the 2nd or third or fourth will, but that's because Ive seen what it does. It's worth $10 and an hour of your time to try...or just aim for the meaty parts.

**Monster Rain**

Shooting fruit dressed up in clothes actually sounds like a lot of fun.

I think I'll see if I can find any NY Giants jerseys on clearance.

**dogma**

Monster Rain wrote:Shooting fruit dressed up in clothes actually sounds like a lot of fun.

Your inner homophobe is coming out.

**Monster Rain**

Oh you!

I would have said vegetables, but hasn't Terri Schiavo suffered enough?

**AustonT**

Monster Rain wrote:Oh you!

I would have said vegetables, but hasn't Terri Schiavo suffered enough?

well played.

**dogma**

Agreed.

**frgsinwntr**

AustonT wrote:
frgsinwntr wrote:How large are your hands? From the base of the palm to finger tips.
7 inches

What Caliber do you prefer? Don't care

What is your final price range after tax? 700-800 after tax

Have you shot before? yup!

What and what did you or didnt you like about it. I enjoyed pretty much all of it

How often will you be shooting? once a month to every other month

Do you intend on getting a concealed carry permit? Yup

If yes what body type do you have, if not, why not? I'm 5'10" 250lbs but mostly muscle.... I go to the gym 4-5 days a week and bench over 300... I'm not THIN cause i don't like to diet and certainly don't like cardio, but I certainly am not fat... Most people guess my body weight as 175

This I can work with.
Based on the knowlege you want eventually to conceal the Glock 34 you posted probably isn't what you want. It's basically a long slide G17 (G17L really). It's a fantastic target pistol chambered in a service round, but not realistic for concealed carry. With your body size and reasonable wardrobe choices you could easily carry a full length semi like the G17 though.
Based on your hand size you will likely be more comfortable with a single stack semi or revolver with slimmer grips than a double stack semi, or overmolded revolver grips. That doesn't mean these other guns are unshootable or controllable simply my opinion in terms of your comfort.
In comparison my hands are 7 3/8s long I tend to prefer my Sig 220, or slim grips on a J frame to my Glocks, but my buddy Greg with his tiny dwarf 6 7/8s hands almost exclusively uses Glocks. He recently machine the space from behind the magazine in the grip out, it makes a world of difference.
Just for size I would probably take serious looks at: Sig 220, Sig P5, Kahr P and PM series, and the single stack Glocks, Colt Cobra/Detective, SandW J frame or any number of Clones,
Based on your whole Criteria I recommend: Glock 17/22, Sig 226/228, any one of the Browning Double action family sold under the name Hi Power or BDA, at least look at a 1911 Frazz mentioned some great companies up thread I recommend looking at some inexpensive ones because they are mechanically sound and currently under valued specifically Rock River Arms and Hi Standard, and Medium to Large frame revolvers.
This may be TLDR but here's a short summary of WHY I suggest each gun.

Sig 220: This gun is heavy, steel frame and slide make this a carry gun not for the faint of heart but also reduces felt recoil from the 45ACP, night sights are a must as the stock Sig sights are awful. The factory DA pull is a little heavy but the chage is so common Sig stocks a part number for the lighter spring (Green). The decocker is easy to access when you want and requires enough force that you wont do it by accident. No safeties of any kind unless you count the decocker, means that this firearm is simple and can be easily operated in any light or weather conditions. Expect to pay as little as $500 to as much as $1200. Depending on options you choose and used or new, expect 660to 750 out the door.

Sig P5: This has a 2xx number but I can't be bothered to look for it, they didnt sell in large numbers in the US. Most of them you will find are German police trade ins from a couple years ago. It's basically the same gun as the 220 above but with the slide length of the P228. Chambered in 9mm with 7(IIRC) in the mag it's not exactly topping out the 9mm field in capacity. This gun is WORTH about $300, if you find one try to meet that price. They sold for 280-480 when the market was flooded. Don't pay more than 350.

Kahr: Kahr was once a CNC manufacturer that has turned into a reliable American gun maker. They are essentially single stack Glocks, similar grip shape, trigger,and striker. The smaller grip should fit well in your hand.The trigger tends to be a little sloppy compared to Glock ( itself not the best trigger). They come in a variety of calibers but are essentially all the same size, the PM being marginally smaller than the P. In my opinion the 9mm and 45 PM are as small as you can go in a semi and still have full control over aim and recoil for follow on shots. Its been awhile since I checked retail prices for Kahr, expect about 600-700. Several cops that I know prefer these as backup guns and off duty carry.

Colt Detective/SandW J frame. Essentially the same pistol, the Colt is older and OOP for several years. Colt revolvers were handmade to exacting standards, finding one in good condition for a decent price is neigh on impossible if you do buy it immediately. SandW J frames and thier Taurus and Rossi clones are all basically the same but the quality is in descending order. I'd buy a gently used Smith before a brand new Taurus. Don't go out of your way to find a 357 but its good to have the capability. The small grips and generally small pistol should fit you well and easily conceal, I carry mine in a front pants pocket, cargo pocket or a berns-martin holster. Not exactly a target gun, you can shoot it for familiarity and 38SPC wont break the bank. expect to pay 250-700 depending on brand, material, and condition. Used a good quality 38 Smith should run 350-450. The wife got me a new Taurus...the quality was not impressive but I'm a detail guy. The overall fit and finish was excellent...I still say used Smith...

Glock: Pretty much all Glocks are mechanically identical. I heavily suggest the police trade in 3rd generation G22s that are just everywhere these days. The grip will probably seem large, it can be machined out if you want to. Parts for Glocks and people who can work on them are everywhere. Glocks get a bad rap from gun snobs ( including me at one time) but its ergonomic design and its proliferation make it a solid addition to any gunsafe. I reccomend the G22 for a number of reasons. First 40SW is a solid caliber, cheap to shoot,accurate, and a mild recoil. A G22 can take a no tools barrel change to 357 Sig or 9mm. 357 sig uses 40 mags and 9mm mags are cheap. You can register a stock for it and turn your Glock into a semiauto subgun. Versatility is the word of the day for full side Glocks. expect to pay 300-600

Sig 226/228: Everything I said about the other Sigs applies except the grip is noticeably fatter. IF someone offers you the Blackwater edition...pass out of principle...and useless features.

The Browning Hi Power: John Browning's crowning achievement. I despise DAO pistols with every fiber of my being, But the BDA has served the British Army, notably the SAS, and even the Nazis...still going. I cant argue with such a wide following, personally not my favorite. This is basically the pistol that most modern handguns trace their lineage to.

1911: I feel like everything that could be said about 1911s...already has been by better men.

Things you should consider even though they aren't usually on people "sexy must have guns for home defense and target shooting".

A 4 inch barreled 357. Longer sigh radius than a snubbie makes it more practical for punching paper and its still concealable in many of the places you might put a full frame semi. You can make repeatable 100M shots with practice and its still a fast drawing concealable. Think Smith 686 or Taurus 66...probably used for the Smith they get pricey. The 45 ACP Smith 625 works too

22WMR Revolver: the Taurus Model 941 specifically. You get 8 shots, its cheap to shoot and can act as a trainer for another J frame...or just a primary. 22 Mag not big enough for you? It share virtually identical ballistics with the much touted FN 5.7. You can reduce the trigger pull much below what you could with a centerfire (necessary for some ladies)

Edit: forgot one
.22 semi auto that is not a target pistol first. Most of these are now OOP but a solid reliable 22 like the Beretta 70 and similar guns are suitable for plinking and effective for self defense if you train often with it which with a 22 you likely will.
22s are plenty for killing people, Israeli air marshals used to carry them with great efficacy, I would hazard to guess that more people have been killed off the battlefield with 22s than any other round, it it ist first it's probably in the top 3.
I hope that narrows the field.

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MartiniPunk wrote:
AustonT wrote:
erm....

Sorry, I meant .40/.357 swaps, the other is a 9mm swap.

ahh...makes more sense now.

whoa thank you very much for all of this information. I'll be going to the range in february and I'll try some of these out. : ) the concealed permit won't be useful in NJ however... as its not a state where the reciprocity takes effect... I'd be going for a florida non-resident one

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dogma wrote:
frgsinwnt wrote: I'm 5'10" 250lbs but mostly muscle.... I go to the gym 4-5 days a week and bench over 300... I'm not THIN cause i don't like to diet and certainly don't like cardio, but I certainly am not fat... Most people guess my body weight as 175

Assuming everything you've said is accurate, you must know a lot of people that are awful at guessing body weight.

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Monster Rain wrote:You can't lose, misplace, or fumble with a memorized and practiced combination.

Combinations and keys can both be misplaced/forgotten, even with practice. I transpose my SSN all the time, and often have to hunt for my car keys.

Dunno about that... here is a pic from this past summer when i went on a hike with my wife....

I'd guess around 175-180 seeing this picture with my height...

But honestly then my wife asked for the best ork face since I had just moved a huge tree off the Appalachian trail so people didn't have to step over it.... so I did...

Most lifters lift with their upper body since they are lifting to look good... i focus on strength so legs are a big deal...

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dogma wrote:
Monster Rain wrote:Shooting fruit dressed up in clothes actually sounds like a lot of fun.

Your inner homophobe is coming out.

what you did there...

I see it