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I don't agree. WWX, from what I've seen, comes in a disproportionately large scale and is more like a Deadlands-Meets-40k kind of game. I believe that they are sufficiently different that one will not detract from the other. As you pointed out, they might actually be complimentary. I could see myself buying some WWX minis (like their werewolf Indian leader) for use in my BWG gaming.

Although I can only speak for myself, if BWG's were-creatures are half as good as their other minis, I plan on dropping a lot of money on this one.

-Solo Sam

To me, WWX really isn't all that similar. Not really my cup of tea, some of the models are nice but it feels more like a sci fi game than a western to me. I'm going for more of a "what if all those folklore critters were real" kind of thing. The one I'm more worried about "coying" would be Deadlands, which I'm actually not all that familiar with. So I'm just taking some folklore stories and giving it my own spin and we'll take it from there

At the end of the day, if people buy WWX models to play BWG, or vise versa, then everyone wins

Yeah, I'd much rather see BWG go ahead with its own take on the weird west. If anything this take sounds more like Going Native: Warpath than WWX or Deadlands.

Plus, it's easy to play a 'normal' wild west game with BSG. I don't know if the same is true with WWX.

 cybogoblin wrote:
Plus, it's easy to play a 'normal' wild west game with BSG. I don't know if the same is true with WWX.

That part is Definitely true

As long as there is enough to distinguish BWG's weird west expansion from WWX, then sounds good! Just wanted to ask the question as I figured others might have it, too

Yeah it will be different enough I think ... the heart of the game is still going to be a hollywood-historical kind of setting, just with monsters thrown into the mix too, but still totally optional.

You're really going to have to do Laurel and Hardy in that expansion.

Don't forget Abbott and Costello

I am with RiTides in that WWX is NOT an aesthetic that I like. It is way too "slick" and "cool," like the artwork for 3.5 DnD. It is all sharply pointed, impractically layered, rivet-filled drivel.

I like a believable weird west. That photoshop by solosam is, I think, pretty close to the mark.

Brisco County is always my go-to reference! I like a dose of camp in my weird west, but not too much, like cream in your coffee. Full Brisco is too much (it's like a strawberry mocha frappachino with whipped cream), but dial back the puns and pop culture references and you've got it!

I like a little bit of technological advancement, a dash of steam punk, if you will, like the "knockout gas" super cannon, the "steel horses," Ned Zed's "Machinery Gun," and such like from the Brisco series. Wild Wild West is also a good reference for me personally; you've got crazy advanced science, but it is crazy advanced science that most folks think is unbelievable. Another EXCELLENT reference is the FIRST Red Dead game, Red Dead Revolver.

I also like a dash of Victorian horror to spice things up a bit; some monsters, cultists, and a dose of magic, but almost always left on the furthest edges of explanation, like a good X-Files episode.

All you need to know is enough to get the point across. What was that creepy thing that washed in from the ocean and was killing all of those people? Who the F knows, but you learned just enough to send it to Hell today!

The point is, for me, the weird west is WEIRD because things that are not normal for a traditional western setting are, well, NOT NORMAL. People do not look at a gatling pistol as the height of awesome technology, but as a WEIRD thing that shouldn't really exist. Most "normal" folks wouldn't believe in the things that go 'bump' in the night, but that does not make them any less of a real, if outlandishly rare, threat. The movie Burrowers is a perfect example, and a pretty cool B movie too.

In WWX, too much is par for the course. Even the buildings have funky scrap metal all bolted to them. Too much, too much, too much. It is a fantasy steam-punk setting with a dose of wild west. I do not look at something like WWX as weird west, but western steam-punk.

Edit: Necros, borrow the Hell out of Deadlands. I wouldn't worry about it. On a very high level, much of what one would borrow from Deadlands would amount to inspiration rather than out and out copying. Deadlands is so strongly based on American myth and folklore and steam-punk tropes that it is hard to say that Deadlands gets to keep all of that exclusive to itself. There are bits that are pure Deadlands, but like 40K, that vein of pure Deadlands is a very specific amalgam of stuff. BWG from what I have seen is not copying Deadlands, but your ideas for the weird west elements of BWG are very Deadlands-ISH in the sense that you are, in my opinion, in the sweet spot of "proper" weird west; inspiration from and a unique spin on history, myth, folklore, and well-trodden tropes.

The movie Burrowers is a perfect example, and a pretty cool B movie too.

This was a really good movie. I agree that I prefer the more low-key horror, as opposed to WWX's "Western Warhammer" aesthetic.

-Solo Sam

I'll have to see if Burrowers is on Netflix Never got to see Brisco, and Netflix doesn't have it :(

But yeah, I want to go with more of a subtle weird west from a fluff perspective. I'm kind of thinking of it a lot like the TV show Supernatural... there's drifter monster hunters out there, they move from town to town following rumors and killing off the bad things ... saving people who have no idea they needed to be saved in the first place.

We'll have Engineers for some slight steampunkyness, but that will be subtle too... one guy might have a hand cannon or gatling rifle, even that stuff I want to try and make it look mostly believable.

Another thing to look at, especially with your other homage characters:

I was thinking if we got into ghosts we could do a ghostbuster.. could maybe add that in with the undead stuff

Burrowers is on Netflix. It is the only reason I saw it. Very fun movie though, lower budget, but a good wild west monster story.

Weeble, better not let the WWX fan boys see your post They might tell you how you're trolling.

Necros, I'm pretty much with everyone that says, a believable weird west is the way to go

Love the stuff I've seen so far for your game

 Alfndrate wrote:
Weeble, better not let the WWX fan boys see your post They might tell you how you're trolling.

Necros, I'm pretty much with everyone that says, a believable weird west is the way to go

Love the stuff I've seen so far for your game

Yea, well they can suck my peacemaker without a stupid attached knife blade.

Necros,

Thought you might like this guy. He's a giant mountain man who adorns himself with bones. This pic is from a "Wolverine" comic. If he were a mini, I'd buy it.

Also, you might have realized by now that I'm just going to keep throwing out ideas until you tell me to stop.

- Solo Sam

Keep the ideas coming .. less work for me to do! :p

Seriously though, lots of good ideas, I'll use the ones that fit Been reading up on a lot of different folklore creatures lately. But we're not going to start really developing this until we get the recent Kickstarter more squared away.. probably really get things started next month or into june. I had hoped to do a new Kickstarter for this some time this summer, but it will most likely end up being in the fall. Want to get it really fleshed out and looking good from the get go.

We've been back and forth over the idea of doing it as a starter box set or a plain old expansion with just a book and some new minis. I think we're going to end up going the boxed set route, like what I was discussing in the other box set idea thread.

So the current plan is the box will come with the Werewolf starter set, Unsung starter set (human monster hunter gang), a 2x2' double sided 4-panel folding board, with flat cardstock building interior templates, and some standees for obstacles like crates & barrels, etc, and a full rulebook. Basically BWG 2.0. But, the original rulebook will still be valid for players that just want to play the game as is with all humans. The new book will just have rules for Skinwalkers & beasts plus rules for campaigns.

The new book and models will be sold separately for the folks that don't want the box set too.. and of course we'll do lots of monsters. I'm thinking though for the Skinwalkers, the only real starter set will be the werewolves.. we'll sell support packs for others.. and other Alpha skinwalkers will be sold separately along with unique monsters like Sasquach or the Wendigo.

Also thinking of adjusting the new rules a bit where instead of Skinwalkers, Undead and others being all new factions there will just be 2, humans vs supernaturals. You can still form a gang with whoever you want, but your gang leader determines if it's a mundane or a supernatural gang.. and adding one to the other will be treated like hired guns.. so if a human gang wanted to have a skinwalker, it would be treated like a hired gun so you need at least 5 models to let him join as #6. If you want another skinwalker, you need 5 more humans first. Human hired guns can only join human gangs, and Supernatural monsters can only join Supernatural gangs.

Then some day later when we start doing zombies, they will just be supernatural too. No need to make a whole new rulebook to explain a whole new faction.

All I can say is.... HURRY UP! I'm already saving my money!

- Solo Sam

So I'm hard at work writing the new rules, while working on painting new figures and organizing the last campaign, which is why updates have been slow lately.

But, here's some new ideas and slight changes to some of the old rules for gang creation.

I'm thinking of doing away with hired guns (sort of) to simplify things a bit. So there will just be 3 levels. For humans you have your Bosses, Professionals and Henchmen. Supernaturals get Monsters, Fiends and Beasts. Since all hired guns are as tough as a gang leader, I'm thinking we don't need 2 types of the same thing.. starting to feel redundant. So, you can have any boss level person lead your gang, even "hired guns". Every boss level person gets a special bonus ability, just some are geared more toward helping your whole gang, others are for helping themselves. So, you could have Wilt Clancy lead your gang, and his ability can be shared like now... or you can have Shamus McFox lead your gang, and your gang won't get any special bonus. It's probably best to have an actual gang leader type lead your gang, but you'll have the option to use any Boss level guy you want.

Then, you can still have other bosses join your gang, 1 boss for every 5 models just like now where you have 1 hired gun for every 5. Supernatural monsters would be the same way.. an Alpha skinwalker would have a bonus skill that helps the whole pack, but a Wendigo will be more of a loner.

For custom gangs, I think what I'll do is list out each and every boss skill so if you want to make custom bosses, right now a custom leader doesn't get anything special besides lucky dice.

Also going to have only Humans able to get the Leaders Luck rule, supernaturals will cause fear so each big monster will count as 2 models for morale outnumbering purposes.

I decided I couldn't wait, so I bought this mini from Black Cat Bases. I tried to give him a realistic gray wolf paint scheme, supplemented with some Indian-style war paint.

Looking good one thing I'm planning is for some bigger monsters to be on 40mm bases, or even 60mm if the model is big enough.. all alpha skinwalkers will be on 40mm bases

Solosam. That's an awesone looking fig. Great job.

 Necros wrote:
I'm going for more of a "what if all those folklore critters were real" kind of thing. The one I'm more worried about "coying" would be Deadlands, which I'm actually not all that familiar with. So I'm just taking some folklore stories and giving it my own spin and we'll take it from there

At the end of the day, if people buy WWX models to play BWG, or vise versa, then everyone wins

Actually I am buying BWG for Deadlands, your skirmish game will get some play, but I have to admit the reason I got the minis was to add to the collection I use for Deadlands.
Your idea so far works great, and I am looking forward to it, I am not worried I am happy to see new minis that should work for one of the games I play. Hope that helps.

In anticipation of "Curse of the Skinwalker" I went back and re-read some of my old 'Werewolf: the Apocalypse' books. I have several of their 'Werewolf: The Wild West' books, and I was actually pretty disappointed by the art. It is high-quality (some of Deadland's art is just awful) but I found it very unimaginative. Most of the art consists of Werewolves eating random cowboys, and the Werewolves themselves are very generic and unadorned... There are a lot of pictures of them wearing feathers, and every now and then one has a bone-pipe breastplate.

These are two of the coolest pictures I found: The one on the left is one of the more interesting Werewolves... he has a lot of Native American style decoration. It might be cool to see an Alpha or something like this... I hope we get figures that are clearly "Werewolves in the Old West" rather than "Generic Werewolves" which could be suitable for any random genre... the market has enough of those.

I also liked this Hopi guy on the right. I think he looks pretty badass, with his skeleton belt and giant mask. I don't recall ever reading about the Hopi as a violent people... certainly not on the scale of the Sioux or Comanche. Nonetheless, a model similar to this would be very neat as a hired gun. At a minimum, it would be a model that is very unique and doesn't duplicate concepts already on the market.

 RiTides wrote:

It seems like it might be better to stick to a pure wild west theme, instead, to differentiate a bit from that juggernaut... which is almost completely weird west.

I don't agree. There is a huge difference between using historical set pieces (characters with actual guns and weapons) in a historically accurate time setting (1870-1890) that people can relate to with the addition of supernatural components (werewolves for example) as compared to WWX. That game uses historical personas (sherman grant and sheridan) that people can relate to and places them in a strange and futuristic setting that looks like the world we think we know but broken and unrecognizable. When I first saw WWX I immediately thought of that terrible western space cartoon Bravestar.

http://www.google.com/search?q=bravestarr&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=PD2QUdjJEMG_0AGEvYG4DA&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAA&biw=1024&bih=673

I think that BWG expanding into the alternate reality with its weird west is not so much steam punk as it is more of a glimpse into the "what if" of our subconscious belief of the mythology of the unexplainable from that time period.

Old ghost tales and the yarns of the time period that created the mythos in the first place.

Keep bringing it Necros

Drew