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Bran Dawri wrote:
While I don't offhand have hard numbers for a Protector's bench-press capacity, fifty miles per hour is certainly doable for them. They can also withstand G-forces of 5 gees indefinitely (maybe more, but 5 gees is what the stories have so far shown), and I'm pretty sure an Astartes can only punch through solid metal when wearing power armour.

1) Necrons were already disqualified for being unkillable, so that puts the nail in the coffin for Pophet being allowed to enter. Or it should.

2) The tnuctip spy gun can do that. It has several modes of operation, including, but not limited to, a grenade launcher, a laser, a length-adjustable monomolecular wire in a stasis field, a disintegrator, (causes atoms to fly away from the target in all directions by suppressing the negative charge of an electron) and a self-destruct which turns it into a fusion bomb.

A World Eater once punched clean through the breastplate of a Custodes and killed him.

Was he unarmoured?

...

In any case, I'm going to have to re-read Niven's Known Space stories and novels. I vaguely recall one of the ringworld novels having something about a Protector tearing through something really tough, but it could just be me imagining things.

They're pulpy, but pretty intelligent as pulp goes. And fun... Some of the coolest aliens in science fiction, too.

Just saying.

We need Spock and Jason Brody.

 Jihadin wrote:


Just saying.

Is that He-man?

Pretty sure it's Drizzt Do'Urden from Forgotten Realms.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Was he unarmoured?

...

In any case, I'm going to have to re-read Niven's Known Space stories and novels. I vaguely recall one of the ringworld novels having something about a Protector tearing through something really tough, but it could just be me imagining things.

They're pulpy, but pretty intelligent as pulp goes. And fun... Some of the coolest aliens in science fiction, too.

Completely naked, although it's not as much of an outlier as some people claim, as Ahriman speaks at length in one novel at how Astartes can maul APC's even when lacking power armor.

 Asherian Command wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:


Just saying.

Is that He-man?

Its Drizzt.......OMG.....I'm in a state of shock so bad....

 Wyzilla wrote:


Completely naked, although it's not as much of an outlier as some people claim, as Ahriman speaks at length in one novel at how Astartes can maul APC's even when lacking power armor.

Mmm, I should probably preface my response by stating that I absolutely loathe the HH series, and do not consider any of it even remotely 40K canon.

So, to conclude,, that is a completely pants-on-head slowed piece of fluff, even for that series. If Marines can punch through power armour and destroy tank armour when buck-naked, why the feth are they wearing heavy, bulky armour which slows them down and reduces vision, hearing and sense of smell when it won't even remotely protect them against other Marines??? Also, why don't all Marine close combat attacks not count as at least Powerweapon attacks?

...

At least the helmet-less models make more sense now. Their head is harder than the helmet anyway, so there's no point in them wearing it :-D :-D :-D.

So no offense, but one isolated mention in the worst sf series I have ever had the displeasure of starting to read is not conclusive proof that 40K Marines can single-punch through solid metal against a moving opponent.
In any case, I didn't claim that Protectors were just as strong as Marines, but that they had comparable abilities. Even if Marines are slightly stronger, Protectors are equally tough, and still have the edge in speed and far outstrip Marines (and practically everyone else) in intelligence.

Bran Dawri wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


Completely naked, although it's not as much of an outlier as some people claim, as Ahriman speaks at length in one novel at how Astartes can maul APC's even when lacking power armor.

Mmm, I should probably preface my response by stating that I absolutely loathe the HH series, and do not consider any of it even remotely 40K canon.

So, to conclude,, that is a completely pants-on-head slowed piece of fluff, even for that series. If Marines can punch through power armour and destroy tank armour when buck-naked, why the feth are they wearing heavy, bulky armour which slows them down and reduces vision, hearing and sense of smell when it won't even remotely protect them against other Marines??? Also, why don't all Marine close combat attacks not count as at least Powerweapon attacks?

...

At least the helmet-less models make more sense now. Their head is harder than the helmet anyway, so there's no point in them wearing it :-D :-D :-D.

So no offense, but one isolated mention in the worst sf series I have ever had the displeasure of starting to read is not conclusive proof that 40K Marines can single-punch through solid metal against a moving opponent.
In any case, I didn't claim that Protectors were just as strong as Marines, but that they had comparable abilities. Even if Marines are slightly stronger, Protectors are equally tough, and still have the edge in speed and far outstrip Marines (and practically everyone else) in intelligence.

To be honest Outcast dead is the worst of the entire horus heresy series.

Bran Dawri wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:


Completely naked, although it's not as much of an outlier as some people claim, as Ahriman speaks at length in one novel at how Astartes can maul APC's even when lacking power armor.

Mmm, I should probably preface my response by stating that I absolutely loathe the HH series, and do not consider any of it even remotely 40K canon.

So, to conclude,, that is a completely pants-on-head slowed piece of fluff, even for that series. If Marines can punch through power armour and destroy tank armour when buck-naked, why the feth are they wearing heavy, bulky armour which slows them down and reduces vision, hearing and sense of smell when it won't even remotely protect them against other Marines??? Also, why don't all Marine close combat attacks not count as at least Powerweapon attacks?

...

At least the helmet-less models make more sense now. Their head is harder than the helmet anyway, so there's no point in them wearing it :-D :-D :-D.

So no offense, but one isolated mention in the worst sf series I have ever had the displeasure of starting to read is not conclusive proof that 40K Marines can single-punch through solid metal against a moving opponent.
In any case, I didn't claim that Protectors were just as strong as Marines, but that they had comparable abilities. Even if Marines are slightly stronger, Protectors are equally tough, and still have the edge in speed and far outstrip Marines (and practically everyone else) in intelligence.

Because power armor comes with a sensor suite, expands their vision, enhances their strength further, and allows them to shrug off lasguns, heavy bolters, autocannon fire, and even survive Leman Russ battlecannons.

Since when does a lasgun have higher strength than a Marine?

For that matter, since when is a blow from an unarmed and unarmoured Marine more powerful than a grenade from a heavy bolter or an autocannon?
Since that's what you're claiming...
And last time I checked battlecannons were S8 AP3 (apparently just like naked Space Marines), so power armour does exactly nothing.

I think if that doesn't make my point, I'm done arguing, because if you're going to seriously argue this point further there's no reasoning with you.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Since when does a lasgun have higher strength than a Marine?

For that matter, since when is a blow from an unarmed and unarmoured Marine more powerful than a grenade from a heavy bolter or an autocannon?
Since that's what you're claiming...
And last time I checked battlecannons were S8 AP3 (apparently just like naked Space Marines), so power armour does exactly nothing.

I think if that doesn't make my point, I'm done arguing, because if you're going to seriously argue this point further there's no reasoning with you.

Who me?

Who are you quoting?

PA does not slow down Marines FYI. That's the whole point of the Black Carapace.

Do we already have characters from Starship Troopers and Dune on the list?
We can't have a good sci-fi marine without Starship Troopers and Dune. I don't really know about those series though, so you gotta help me here.
I think it would be best if we just add the main characters, that would be Juan Rico for Starship Troopers and Paul Atreides for Dune.
You guys have any other suggestions and weapons?

 Iron_Captain wrote:
Do we already have characters from Starship Troopers and Dune on the list?
We can't have a good sci-fi marine without Starship Troopers and Dune. I don't really know about those series though, so you gotta help me here.
I think it would be best if we just add the main characters, that would be Juan Rico for Starship Troopers and Paul Atreides for Dune.
You guys have any other suggestions and weapons?

Sure!

They will be added.

All armed with a Wiffle Ball Bat

 Jihadin wrote:
All armed with a Wiffle Ball Bat

Then it would be a tie.

 Asherian Command wrote:


Who me?

Who are you quoting?

Not you, Wyzilla.

Bran Dawri wrote:
Since when does a lasgun have higher strength than a Marine?

For that matter, since when is a blow from an unarmed and unarmoured Marine more powerful than a grenade from a heavy bolter or an autocannon?
Since that's what you're claiming...
And last time I checked battlecannons were S8 AP3 (apparently just like naked Space Marines), so power armour does exactly nothing.

I think if that doesn't make my point, I'm done arguing, because if you're going to seriously argue this point further there's no reasoning with you.

The TT isn't evidence of anything given that it's just game mechanics.

But since you seem to be completely ignorant of 40K, welcome to 40k. Where Librarians fly through space and cut battle barges in half like they're Goku, and Orks walk off battlecannon shots like they're flesh wounds.

And the game mechanics are supposed to be a -somewhat abstracted, I'll grant you- representation of a model/unit/weapon's "real life" capabilities.

A little fudging from the actual capabilities for simplicty's sake is fair enough, but to claim an unarmoured marine has the same strength and armourpenetrating power as a battlecannon shell is asinine, even for 40K. So, yeah, you can replay to this post if you want, but I'm done arguing with you.

Space Marines are supersoldiers, not Kryptonians.

Bran Dawri wrote:
And the game mechanics are supposed to be a -somewhat abstracted, I'll grant you- representation of a model/unit/weapon's "real life" capabilities.

A little fudging from the actual capabilities for simplicty's sake is fair enough, but to claim an unarmoured marine has the same strength and armourpenetrating power as a battlecannon shell is asinine, even for 40K. So, yeah, you can replay to this post if you want, but I'm done arguing with you.

Space Marines are supersoldiers, not Kryptonians.

Where do you keep getting this lore?

I remember the other thread where you keep bringing this up and yet that is NOT what it says.

OK, a few things here:
1.) A Space Marine has the strengths necessary to penetrate the weak points of Power Armour, SHOULD HE HAVE THE PROPER TRAINING. ie training his fist to punch properly so as not to break his wrist, punching properly so that he doesn't shatter his hand, etc. Contrary to popular belief, punching somebody properly takes a fuckton of training, but will deal far more damage to somebody, and less damage to the Puncher's fist.
2.) HOW THE feth HAS NOBODY MENTIONED BIG DADDY? Seriously, you HAVE to add Subject Delta with his drill. He would absolutely DESTROY your average Space Marine in combat. Though if he was up against somebody like Captain Tycho, then he would definitely have a MUCH tougher time (though he'd still win)

Bran Dawri wrote:
And the game mechanics are supposed to be a -somewhat abstracted, I'll grant you- representation of a model/unit/weapon's "real life" capabilities.

A little fudging from the actual capabilities for simplicty's sake is fair enough, but to claim an unarmoured marine has the same strength and armourpenetrating power as a battlecannon shell is asinine, even for 40K. So, yeah, you can replay to this post if you want, but I'm done arguing with you.

Space Marines are supersoldiers, not Kryptonians.

It's not a claim. It happened. Along with reference being made to Astartes also being able to maul APC's even when naked. And I haven't even gotten to speed. There's an actual psychological condition in the Imperium called Transhuman Dread, when exposure to space marines and seeing them run is so unnatural and unnerving that it causes the person exposed to go insane.

The thing you need to remember is you're lucky to get a consistent portrayal of a Space Marines abilities in the same book, nevermind in general.

In one story, you might have a space marine punching out a tank. In another, you'll find him strangled to death by a houseplant.

 Compel wrote:
The thing you need to remember is you're lucky to get a consistent portrayal of a Space Marines abilities in the same book, nevermind in general.

In one story, you might have a space marine punching out a tank. In another, you'll find him strangled to death by a houseplant.

Oh I remember that. That was stupid.

 dusara217 wrote:
OK, a few things here:
1.) A Space Marine has the strengths necessary to penetrate the weak points of Power Armour, SHOULD HE HAVE THE PROPER TRAINING. ie training his fist to punch properly so as not to break his wrist, punching properly so that he doesn't shatter his hand, etc. Contrary to popular belief, punching somebody properly takes a fuckton of training, but will deal far more damage to somebody, and less damage to the Puncher's fist.
2.) HOW THE feth HAS NOBODY MENTIONED BIG DADDY? Seriously, you HAVE to add Subject Delta with his drill. He would absolutely DESTROY your average Space Marine in combat. Though if he was up against somebody like Captain Tycho, then he would definitely have a MUCH tougher time (though he'd still win)

Lolwut, at first I thought you were talking about something different, but Bioshock Big Daddies? Those things are pathetic, the only impressive thing about them is a drill. Guardsmen could drop them with lasguns.

 Compel wrote:
The thing you need to remember is you're lucky to get a consistent portrayal of a Space Marines abilities in the same book, nevermind in general.

In one story, you might have a space marine punching out a tank. In another, you'll find him strangled to death by a houseplant.

Exactly. They're both ridiculous.

Thinking about it there is only one person.

He doesn't need armour. In fact he is pretty much like a Scout Sergeant, armed with naught but a Shotgun and Power Fist (that strikes at Initiative).

Groovy.

 Wyzilla wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
OK, a few things here:
1.) A Space Marine has the strengths necessary to penetrate the weak points of Power Armour, SHOULD HE HAVE THE PROPER TRAINING. ie training his fist to punch properly so as not to break his wrist, punching properly so that he doesn't shatter his hand, etc. Contrary to popular belief, punching somebody properly takes a fuckton of training, but will deal far more damage to somebody, and less damage to the Puncher's fist.
2.) HOW THE feth HAS NOBODY MENTIONED BIG DADDY? Seriously, you HAVE to add Subject Delta with his drill. He would absolutely DESTROY your average Space Marine in combat. Though if he was up against somebody like Captain Tycho, then he would definitely have a MUCH tougher time (though he'd still win)

Lolwut, at first I thought you were talking about something different, but Bioshock Big Daddies? Those things are pathetic, the only impressive thing about them is a drill. Guardsmen could drop them with lasguns.

Are you kidding me? I have literally shot a single Big Daddy with over 330 bullets and that bastard just kept coming. Big Daddies are all-around bigger and stronger than ordinary humans, and Subject Delta tooke a round from a Luger with it PRESSED AGAINST ONE OF THE THREE THIN POINTS OF ThE SKULL and he still survived, plus he's also man who can shoot lightning and fire out of his palm and use telekenesis.
Plus, mining drill vs. Power Armour, mining drill wins.