Can I bring all 4 Chaos Cult Units (Like KB,RM,PM and NM) as troops choices in an EC Army?

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**GodDamUser**

ClassicCarraway wrote:

I believe you misunderstood the side I was on for this debate. GW stated any army in 7th was supported in 8th. In order for that to be true, I would have to have the ability to make a Khorne Daemonkin-style army, which allows daemons and Berserkers as troops. Thus, I could take Berserkers with the World Eaters keyword in a detachment that has units without the World Eater keyword and they would still be troops, using just the Chaos and Khorne as my relevant keywords. This allowance is the only way to make such an army that we were assured was still viable.

Well there you are just being pedantic about where in the FOC the unit sits.. not that you cannot make the army.

Some units have moved in their respective FOCs, but if you personally wanted to keep your bezerkers as troops then World Eater zerkers they are

**Cadian16th**

Gordon Shumway wrote:
...Frankie makes this claim, "Furthermore, in an all Death Guard Detachment, Plague Marines are Troops – which can help you unlock more Command Points with a Battalion detachment."
/

In all fairness, that's correct. However, if people are confused by this, they need to realize he didn't say that Plague Marines = Troops in ONLY "all Death Guard Detachments".

**Solosam47**

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Solosam47 wrote:
This isn't 7th ed, this is a new edition. You can do these things now, I have a hunch that now due to wording or should I say lack there of, that I can now take cypher and the fallen in the same army as dark angels. Bonkers right?

But honestly if you give a cult marine a keyword to make it a troop then it's a troop, it just doesn't benefit from synergy of your main army faction.

Honestly you have lost this argument and at this point just running against a wall. GW won't FAQ it cause it is probably intentional. It has its pros and cons and in no way broken.

Yes it can all you have to do is bring 1 HQ choice that shares thier legion, and bam 3 elite units that would have gotten me 1 CP now get me 3 CP.

Not to mention if you read the rule the way I do having every unit in an Army having the WE key word would get you more CP.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

Solosam47 wrote:

Ok so man T-son-sorc, this is confusing cause im really trying to grasp exactly what you are saying and express what I am saying. It sounds like you are almost agreeing with me or I might be agreeing with you just different wording and slight emphases misplacement so let me try this and see what folks say:

I am making an army, a chaos army. I want to maybe model it or paint it so it would look like legion world eaters but I love the rules of alot of other chaos units so I just start tossing stuff in. (This is by no means how I make list but just for arguments sake)

Army Name: World Eaters

Detachment 1:

HQ: Karn "world eater faction"
HQ: Chaos lord "Black Legion"

Troop: World eater Bezerkers
Troop: Death Guard plague marines

Elite: Noise Marines "Black Legion"

Detachment 2:

HQ: Chaos Lord 'Emporers children"
HQ: Sorc "T-sons"

Troop: Emporers children Noise marines
Troop: Rubric Marines T-son

Elite: Bezerkers "black legion"

Ok so lets say this is my army, both detachments consist of only "CHAOS" faction units so by that understanding its legit. Now only the units that share the sub faction of black legion can benefit from their lords buff and only the units with world eaters benefit from their HQ's buffs, so on and so forth. As I interpret what is written is that is legal. The Army itself all are of the chaos faction, I am only limiting myself on synergy because not everyone can benefit from certain buffs like the two types of bezerkers. The entire army is called World Eaters because that is what I wanted to call it since as of right now there is no actual army wide buffs like there was in 7th for any faction really (i.e KDK blood for the blood god rule in 7th or SM chapter tactics) I can call the army the "Sad Sadists on Sunday Marines" if I wanted and it would not change a thing.

Now this is how I am picking up on all this, T-son-sorc, could you use this and point out what and why you think whats wrong so that maybe I can see what you are seeing. I am not playing the rules as implied vs Rules as written subject because I didnt make the rules so I cant say waht is or isnt implied, all I can do is go off what I read in the main rulebook, index, and FAQs.

If there are problems with this thinking I would like to know cause I want to make sure I too am playing the game by the book and as I read it now this is what I am picking up. Of coarse the book is still fresh off the selves and I have not had much time to fully flesh it out and get proficient with it.

All I am saying is that you need your entire army to be the same faction to benefit from the Army Rules of that faction.

So if we had strategems for WE and a person brought Rubric Marines in thier army then they dont get to use the WE strategems. Same thing goes for getting Berserkers as Troops.

As for your example everything in the troops slots would simply be moved to the elites slot.

To the point of there being no army wide buffs. Your asserting that there are no army wide buffs, but with my interpretation the buffs to these armies would be the ability to bring Elites choices as a troops choice.

**yakface**

Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
All I am saying is that you need your entire army to be the same faction to benefit from the Army Rules of that faction.

So if we had strategems for WE and a person brought Rubric Marines in thier army then they dont get to use the WE strategems. Same thing goes for getting Berserkers as Troops.

As for your example everything in the troops slots would simply be moved to the elites slot.

To the point of there being no army wide buffs. Your asserting that there are no army wide buffs, but with my interpretation the buffs to these armies would be the ability to bring Elites choices as a troops choice.

So what about the rest of these 'army' rules, do they also not apply unless you take an entire army with the specified keyword?

So if I take an army based around the 'CHAOS' keyword, and I include a Daemon Prince and give him the THOUSAND SONS keyword, I'm allowed to give that model the mark of Khorne, Slaanesh or Nurgle? Because I'm not taking a 'Thousand Sons Army' (as you call it), that means none of the 'army' rules for Thousand Sons apply, right?

What you are trying to claim, for the 1,000th time does not have any basis in the rules. Look at Genestealer Cult for how rules that actually restrict what can be included in an army are written.

**Gordon Shumway**

Is there anything else to add to the discussion, or are we done here, because at this point it feels like a pile upon a good, well meaning, solid contributor who will not see it any way but his his own?

**GodDamUser**

Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
All I am saying is that you need your entire army to be the same faction to benefit from the Army Rules of that faction.

So if we had strategems for WE and a person brought Rubric Marines in thier army then they dont get to use the WE strategems. Same thing goes for getting Berserkers as Troops.

As for your example everything in the troops slots would simply be moved to the elites slot.

To the point of there being no army wide buffs. Your asserting that there are no army wide buffs, but with my interpretation the buffs to these armies would be the ability to bring Elites choices as a troops choice.

The thing is at this stage there are no 'Army Wide Rules'

They do exist in AoS, and are likely to exist in the individual codex's once they are released, but at this stage with the index's there are no such thing

**Solosam47**

GodDamUser wrote:
Thousand-Son-Sorcerer wrote:
All I am saying is that you need your entire army to be the same faction to benefit from the Army Rules of that faction.

So if we had strategems for WE and a person brought Rubric Marines in thier army then they dont get to use the WE strategems. Same thing goes for getting Berserkers as Troops.

As for your example everything in the troops slots would simply be moved to the elites slot.

To the point of there being no army wide buffs. Your asserting that there are no army wide buffs, but with my interpretation the buffs to these armies would be the ability to bring Elites choices as a troops choice.

The thing is at this stage there are no 'Army Wide Rules'

They do exist in AoS, and are likely to exist in the individual codex's once they are released, but at this stage with the index's there are no such thing

Ok T-son-sorc, I see what you are saying now, thank you. I have not really read into the stratagems yet as I am still going over core rules and what not. How my train of thought at present as to what I consider the rule really hasnt changed and in essence while yes I can move things to elite, at the games current state I really dont have too if I choose not to, not as a house rule or anything but as rules written. The reason for this is just as GodDamUser said in that no actual army wide rules exist yet to provide army wide buffs. Currently the only buffs are to specific faction from specific models in a bubble.

**lessthanjeff**

Here is the response from the Warhammer 40,000 team.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

lessthanjeff wrote:
Here is the response from the Warhammer 40,000 team.

Can I get a link to the post please.

**lessthanjeff**

Sure, if you can tell me how to link to one specific post on facebook. It's on the Warhammer 40,000 facebook page if you look at the community posts where people have been asking them rules questions. They said to bring questions there since they're in direct contact with the rules writers and they don't want to open question forms directly to them or they'd never get anything done.

**GodDamUser**

The question for people who cannot see the pic.

'Can I take pkague bearers in my Deathguard army.. because Plaugebearers are not on the list'

The answer

'Yes as they share atleast 1 faction key word'

**Thommy H**

Actually it asks if an army can include Plaguebearers and Death Guard Plague Marines as Troops, which is an important distinction. The answer is yes.

And, as an addendum, it raises an important point not so-far addressed in this debate: if a "Death Guard army" can only include the units listed, does that suggest you can't have Nurgle's favoured Legion fighting alongside his own daemons? If we accept the premise that Cult Units as Troops = whole army with <Legion> faction, then that must be so, right?

**lessthanjeff**

Thommy H wrote:
Actually it asks if an army can include Plaguebearers and Death Guard Plague Marines as Troops, which is an important distinction. The answer is yes.

And, as an addendum, it raises an important point not so-far addressed in this debate: if a "Death Guard army" can only include the units listed, does that suggest you can't have Nurgle's favoured Legion fighting alongside his own daemons? If we accept the premise that Cult Units as Troops = whole army with <Legion> faction, then that must be so, right?

I think I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

This debate started when Thousand Sons Sorcerer said my World Eater's Battalion with 2 units of khorne berserkers and 1 unit of bloodletters was illegal because I did not have 3 troop choices in it. The question I asked the team shows that it is a valid detachment.

I think the important takeaway is to understand that a single detachment can include units from multiple armies now. You still have a "Death Guard" army fighting with a Nurgle Daemon army all within one detachment because they're buddy buddy like that and have a common goal.

**Thommy H**

I wasn't endorsing the interpretation in my last sentence - quite the opposite! It was a use of reductio ad absurdum.

**Thousand-Son-Sorcerer**

Yes Gordon, You guys were right I was wrong.