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2017/08/27 22:18:30
Subject: Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
Im still only finding one competive list for eldar and it hinges on loading up with the 2 models/units that i own none of.
Wraithlords are my auto take because thats why i play eldar, no matter how they are played they will always drag my list into only casually good at best. Thats a problem because why can space marines feild dreadnaughts and do well but my wraithlords will only ever be meh.
Orks tore our whole club up in 7th (we had to tailor if we wanted a chance) im afraid to face them in 8th.
PEACE is a lie, there is only Passion,
through passion, I gain STRENGTH,
through strength, I gain POWER,
through power, I gain VICTORY through. victory, MY CHAINS are BROKEN.
2017/08/27 23:45:26
Subject: Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
SemperMortis wrote: PKs and Killsaws stayed roughly the same price but they took a hit in regards to effectiveness, that -1 to hit is a huge deal.
Nobz were WS4 last edition, you were already hitting almost everything on 4+ except for stuff that didn't stand a chance in the first place. You also get to strike first with you PK now, and killsaws weren't even an option.
What the PK lost (and thus our entire army) is the ability to reliably handle vehicles.
Overall I think they are on the right track but they still are crap and actually got worse in their #1 role which was Close Combat and a platform for Skorchas. This unit got worse
Their number one role has always been wrecking stuff with mutliple PKs and a Waaagh! banner. They just sucked so bad that the only way they were used was cheap suicide skorchas.
Now do that math again for 7th edition. Best case 12 on a Waaagh!, 9 of those hit, 7.5 wound, 2.5 dead MEQ. Without the Waaagh only 1.8 dead MEQ. So still slightly worse once per game, a lot worse the rest of the game.
You can't deny that they got better.
I will give you this, it got marginally better. Not enough to ever take one in anything but a fluffy for fun game, but yes it got MARGINALLY better. I will give you this one. This unit got marginally better.
3 dead MEQ instead of 1.8 is a 66% increase. Good thing the dakka jet is now just "marginally worse" than the storm talon which is considered decent for most marines and kills 4 MEQ a turn, which is just 33% more.
Yes Burnas did in fact get worse, the template basically made them useless because the only reason people took them in the first place was in Burna wagonz.
You are probably thinking about 5th. There were no burna wagons in 7th. Whenever the battlewagon would move more than 6" template weapons could not shoot from it. Which means you would have to drive within 8" of your opponent, wait a turn, hope your BW didn't get instant-killed by whatever because you are most likely exposed your rear armor. Then, next turn, your could drive yourself into flaming position and try killing something with that template - assuming anything worth flaming didn't just move away. Unless your opponent was a serious idiot or was completely unaware of what burnaz can do, this never worked.
Considering battlewagons can move 12" and now and have burnaz fire from it again, burna wagons actually got better - because 15 d3 hits is still better than none at all and a dead battlewagon. And it's not like you got more than 3 hits from their templates in 7th anyways.
They lost jink as well but gained 2 wounds YAY! nope. Still a loss in durability.
Jinking with koptas was usually 5+ because they could not go to ground and have no exhaust cloud. Against anything with AP-1 or less, they are more durable now, and only against weapons with AP-2 or better and at least 3 oder d6 damage they are only slightly less durable, because all those lascannons, melta and plasma weapons used to wound them on 2's instead of 3's. The kopa stood close to no chance to survive a squad of bolter marines, and anything that kills them easy now killed it easily as well last edition.
and their CC weapons you brag about are crap. one gives you 4attacks at S4 -1AP
2d3 S5 attacks at AP 0. You don't make a convincing argument if you can't even get the numbers right.
Previously they had a choppa and most likely S3. You can't argue that those didn't get better.
This unit got Worse by a lot.
So, in your opinion, what did the kopta do last edition, it can't do now? In actual games, not by just tossing numbers in the air without comparing them to anything.
The reason you think they got terrible because they are too expensive to be a suicide unit now, which is what they were used mostly for before. However, they now durable enough that they need a dedicated anti-tank shooting to remove, which is reflected in their points. Of course, this advantage is lost if you are fielding all boyz otherwise, but in my games with BW my opponents were struggling to remove them.
If rokkits weren't so badly overpriced, they were an awesome unit now.
So NOW they are awesome transports, and since boyz got better this edition that means they should be in them right? No, whoops there goes your whole point.
Whoops, mobs of 12 don't have the additional attack, no awesome moral, no buff characters and warpheads cannot use psychic powers from transports and the PK no longer . Mobs of 30 boyz got better. Mobs of 12 boyz are close to useless now.
And didn't you just argue that nobz got way better? Why aren't they riding trukkz in competitive lists?
Don't start moving goalposts now. Your argument was that all those units got worse, not that they got to a competitive level.
Say what you want, Trukkz are DRASTICALLY over priced. And the fact is that last edition people spammed them in tournament lists, and this edition you don't even see them in local tournaments.
They spammed MANz which happened to be riding trukks. Other than that trukks were useless deathtrapps. What you got for all other units wasn't even worth a single point.
T8 only when you use the "Ard Top" and by doing so you negate its open topped ability making it a giant transport and gun platform.
Open topped does not affect it's ability to transport in anyway - unlike in 7th. It's also free now.
I used to run 3 wagons in my Speed Freak list, I never had a problem with them, they usually didn't die until turn 3+ and usually because I had dropped the passengers off and no longer cared about them.
Good for you, my opponents actually did bring AP1 and 2 weapons that could penetrate AV12, resulting in an explosion half the time. What did they shoot those weapons at? Your jinking koptaz and bikes?
And I also used to field them with 4 Rokkitz and a Kannon for a grand total of 30pts because for 30pts I got 5 S8 shots.
Which were shooting snapshots at 6+ unless you chose to remain stationary. For slightly more than twice the points, you now get twice the fire power which is not a crater by turn 2. How exactly did that get worse?
Also, didn't you ever move your battlewagons flat out? How did you even reach your opponents?
I somehow doubt that you actually ever played a battlewagon like that in 7th.
And while you are right about Melta and such you seem to forget that they are now SIGNIFICANTLY more vulnerable to every type of weapon and can't hide behind cover with an AV14 front sticking out to negate most shooting.
That's not how the rules worked. As soon as anyone was in the AV12 arc he could shoot it, no matter which sides were visible. Anything that was able to move didn't shoot AV14, ever.
That it got significantly more vulnerable to any weapon is flat out wrong. Sure, bolter marines and have a 5% chance of wounding it from the sides and the front now, but they need to do it 18 times to kill a battlewagon. The only thing that got notably better at wounding battlewagons are S6/5 weapons with AP-1, but they have almost five times the wounds they had previously, which means four to five times the firepower needed to destroy, no matter what is shooting it. There is no way to for any realistic amount of firepower to kill the wagon faste than last edition.
The prices and durability also took a huge hit so the stats of those 2 guns might have gotten slightly better but the end result is still a worse platform. T7 3+ save to T5 5+ save is a huge nerf, and the old wording allowed artillery to take hits as if the Grots were T7 so you bought the extra grots and they were great as meat shields. This unit got worse.
The gun also has 6 wounds by itself and gets 5 gretchin for 10, for a total of 11 wounds, instead of the 6 it had previously. The mek gun itself now has as many wounds as the unit previously had.
Zzap guns didn't get better, they got different.
If adding causing mortal wounds to the enemy when it gets hot isn't a buff, I don't know what is.
If you field a unit of 6 and lose 2 on a leadership check of 5 you lose another model, on 6 you lost 2. That is a big deal. They also went up in cost again...which is mind boggling. Actually most price increases in the Index are mind boggling because most of the units were trash before so GW said "You know what will make them better? making them cost more points!"
Gotta love how you just willfully ignore the massive increase of wounds almost everywhere. T5 W5 3+ is a massive buff to survivability compared to AV11 HP2. Previously a single wave serpent could wipe out a unit of kanz on it's own. Killing two kanz now takes some serious firepower.
If you take your usual measurement for durability, which is being shot by a predator annihilator, you need over 200 points to kill a single kan on average, According to that, Kanz are tough as nails.
False, Jink saved my army more often then not in 7th. I played speed freak and had anywhere from 20-35 bikers on the table at any given time. Without Jink my army would have died turn 2 at the absolute latest because T5 4+ isn't hard to kill, but T5 with a 3+ Jink save or 2+ Jink save was money.
I guess you were the one player without tau, eldar and daemons in his meta then.
That is what I get for posting while intoxicated, simple stupid mistakes like the CC weapon on a DeffKoptas giving +1 strength not +1 AP.
Basically you and I will never agree, you somehow think Orkz are in a great place even though only 1 list is competitive and has started to decline a lot of late.
Most armies have one competitive list. Admech have kastelan robot spam guard have conscript/scion's, assassins have an abomination of special characters culexus and Eversors. That is all you need to be competative expecting everything to be top tier just makes your faction overpowered. While the other ork stuff still works in casual
2017/08/28 02:52:52
Subject: Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
Most armies have one competitive list. Admech have kastelan robot spam guard have conscript/scion's, assassins have an abomination of special characters culexus and Eversors. That is all you need to be competative expecting everything to be top tier just makes your faction overpowered. While the other ork stuff still works in casual
The only thing competitive about it is that it is counter meta...a bit. Now though with IG being conscript spam and Chaos running hordes of demons it won't stay counter meta long, I am still waiting for new tournament results but I think its a fair assumption.
As for the rest of the index being good enough for casual? Yeah in the sense that if you don't care about having a shot in hell a lot of it is good. I tried playing a casual game with my old Speed Freakz army. 35 warbikers, who went from 630 without upgrades to 945pts without upgrades. My opponent brought his casual gunline army for SpeeseMehreens, no girlyman, no razorbacks with asscans and no flyers. He tabled my army by turn 3.
I brought my old Kan Wall Army, my opponent brought a casual list of IG. I surrendered turn 2 because he was able to destroy ALL my 12 Kanz and 2 Dreadz in 2 shooting phases even with a KFF Big Mek.
I am sorry to say that your opinion is very much wrong about the ork index, we have a handful (4ish) that are competitive and a host of options which arent worth fielding.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
vaurapung wrote: Im still only finding one competive list for eldar and it hinges on loading up with the 2 models/units that i own none of.
Wraithlords are my auto take because thats why i play eldar, no matter how they are played they will always drag my list into only casually good at best. Thats a problem because why can space marines feild dreadnaughts and do well but my wraithlords will only ever be meh.
Orks tore our whole club up in 7th (we had to tailor if we wanted a chance) im afraid to face them in 8th.
No offense but that is a problem with your club and not the Ork Army. Orkz were universally considered bottom tier. If they were "tearing it up in 7th" then your ork player is either a tactical genius or you guys aren't especially good. I am not trying to be insulting but we have 3 years of batreps and tournament results to prove that point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/28 02:53:58
SemperMortis wrote: Basically you and I will never agree, you somehow think Orkz are in a great place even though only 1 list is competitive and has started to decline a lot of late.
I can agree to disagree. However, I'd like to point out that this thread is about whether orks got better, not about orks are competitive.
I agree mostly with your assessment of orks for competitive plays in tournaments or against highly competitive players.
The thing is, In 7th there was little point to fielding orks in even casual games or campaings. If you wanted to play a fun game (a game you lose without being tabled by turn 3), you needed to ask your opponent to tailor his list to be below average. This has improved by a lot.
Most units you consider garbage and unfieldable have worked well for me against armies that are not top tournament material, but still pretty well built.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2017/08/28 05:23:47
Subject: Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
SemperMortis wrote: PKs and Killsaws stayed roughly the same price but they took a hit in regards to effectiveness, that -1 to hit is a huge deal.
Nobz were WS4 last edition, you were already hitting almost everything on 4+ except for stuff that didn't stand a chance in the first place. You also get to strike first with you PK now, and killsaws weren't even an option.
What the PK lost (and thus our entire army) is the ability to reliably handle vehicles.
Overall I think they are on the right track but they still are crap and actually got worse in their #1 role which was Close Combat and a platform for Skorchas. This unit got worse
Their number one role has always been wrecking stuff with mutliple PKs and a Waaagh! banner. They just sucked so bad that the only way they were used was cheap suicide skorchas.
Now do that math again for 7th edition. Best case 12 on a Waaagh!, 9 of those hit, 7.5 wound, 2.5 dead MEQ. Without the Waaagh only 1.8 dead MEQ. So still slightly worse once per game, a lot worse the rest of the game.
You can't deny that they got better.
I will give you this, it got marginally better. Not enough to ever take one in anything but a fluffy for fun game, but yes it got MARGINALLY better. I will give you this one. This unit got marginally better.
3 dead MEQ instead of 1.8 is a 66% increase. Good thing the dakka jet is now just "marginally worse" than the storm talon which is considered decent for most marines and kills 4 MEQ a turn, which is just 33% more.
Yes Burnas did in fact get worse, the template basically made them useless because the only reason people took them in the first place was in Burna wagonz.
You are probably thinking about 5th. There were no burna wagons in 7th. Whenever the battlewagon would move more than 6" template weapons could not shoot from it. Which means you would have to drive within 8" of your opponent, wait a turn, hope your BW didn't get instant-killed by whatever because you are most likely exposed your rear armor. Then, next turn, your could drive yourself into flaming position and try killing something with that template - assuming anything worth flaming didn't just move away. Unless your opponent was a serious idiot or was completely unaware of what burnaz can do, this never worked.
Considering battlewagons can move 12" and now and have burnaz fire from it again, burna wagons actually got better - because 15 d3 hits is still better than none at all and a dead battlewagon. And it's not like you got more than 3 hits from their templates in 7th anyways.
They lost jink as well but gained 2 wounds YAY! nope. Still a loss in durability.
Jinking with koptas was usually 5+ because they could not go to ground and have no exhaust cloud. Against anything with AP-1 or less, they are more durable now, and only against weapons with AP-2 or better and at least 3 oder d6 damage they are only slightly less durable, because all those lascannons, melta and plasma weapons used to wound them on 2's instead of 3's. The kopa stood close to no chance to survive a squad of bolter marines, and anything that kills them easy now killed it easily as well last edition.
and their CC weapons you brag about are crap. one gives you 4attacks at S4 -1AP
2d3 S5 attacks at AP 0. You don't make a convincing argument if you can't even get the numbers right.
Previously they had a choppa and most likely S3. You can't argue that those didn't get better.
This unit got Worse by a lot.
So, in your opinion, what did the kopta do last edition, it can't do now? In actual games, not by just tossing numbers in the air without comparing them to anything.
The reason you think they got terrible because they are too expensive to be a suicide unit now, which is what they were used mostly for before. However, they now durable enough that they need a dedicated anti-tank shooting to remove, which is reflected in their points. Of course, this advantage is lost if you are fielding all boyz otherwise, but in my games with BW my opponents were struggling to remove them.
If rokkits weren't so badly overpriced, they were an awesome unit now.
So NOW they are awesome transports, and since boyz got better this edition that means they should be in them right? No, whoops there goes your whole point.
Whoops, mobs of 12 don't have the additional attack, no awesome moral, no buff characters and warpheads cannot use psychic powers from transports and the PK no longer . Mobs of 30 boyz got better. Mobs of 12 boyz are close to useless now.
And didn't you just argue that nobz got way better? Why aren't they riding trukkz in competitive lists?
Don't start moving goalposts now. Your argument was that all those units got worse, not that they got to a competitive level.
Say what you want, Trukkz are DRASTICALLY over priced. And the fact is that last edition people spammed them in tournament lists, and this edition you don't even see them in local tournaments.
They spammed MANz which happened to be riding trukks. Other than that trukks were useless deathtrapps. What you got for all other units wasn't even worth a single point.
T8 only when you use the "Ard Top" and by doing so you negate its open topped ability making it a giant transport and gun platform.
Open topped does not affect it's ability to transport in anyway - unlike in 7th. It's also free now.
I used to run 3 wagons in my Speed Freak list, I never had a problem with them, they usually didn't die until turn 3+ and usually because I had dropped the passengers off and no longer cared about them.
Good for you, my opponents actually did bring AP1 and 2 weapons that could penetrate AV12, resulting in an explosion half the time. What did they shoot those weapons at? Your jinking koptaz and bikes?
And I also used to field them with 4 Rokkitz and a Kannon for a grand total of 30pts because for 30pts I got 5 S8 shots.
Which were shooting snapshots at 6+ unless you chose to remain stationary. For slightly more than twice the points, you now get twice the fire power which is not a crater by turn 2. How exactly did that get worse?
Also, didn't you ever move your battlewagons flat out? How did you even reach your opponents?
I somehow doubt that you actually ever played a battlewagon like that in 7th.
And while you are right about Melta and such you seem to forget that they are now SIGNIFICANTLY more vulnerable to every type of weapon and can't hide behind cover with an AV14 front sticking out to negate most shooting.
That's not how the rules worked. As soon as anyone was in the AV12 arc he could shoot it, no matter which sides were visible. Anything that was able to move didn't shoot AV14, ever.
That it got significantly more vulnerable to any weapon is flat out wrong. Sure, bolter marines and have a 5% chance of wounding it from the sides and the front now, but they need to do it 18 times to kill a battlewagon. The only thing that got notably better at wounding battlewagons are S6/5 weapons with AP-1, but they have almost five times the wounds they had previously, which means four to five times the firepower needed to destroy, no matter what is shooting it. There is no way to for any realistic amount of firepower to kill the wagon faste than last edition.
The prices and durability also took a huge hit so the stats of those 2 guns might have gotten slightly better but the end result is still a worse platform. T7 3+ save to T5 5+ save is a huge nerf, and the old wording allowed artillery to take hits as if the Grots were T7 so you bought the extra grots and they were great as meat shields. This unit got worse.
The gun also has 6 wounds by itself and gets 5 gretchin for 10, for a total of 11 wounds, instead of the 6 it had previously. The mek gun itself now has as many wounds as the unit previously had.
Zzap guns didn't get better, they got different.
If adding causing mortal wounds to the enemy when it gets hot isn't a buff, I don't know what is.
If you field a unit of 6 and lose 2 on a leadership check of 5 you lose another model, on 6 you lost 2. That is a big deal. They also went up in cost again...which is mind boggling. Actually most price increases in the Index are mind boggling because most of the units were trash before so GW said "You know what will make them better? making them cost more points!"
Gotta love how you just willfully ignore the massive increase of wounds almost everywhere. T5 W5 3+ is a massive buff to survivability compared to AV11 HP2. Previously a single wave serpent could wipe out a unit of kanz on it's own. Killing two kanz now takes some serious firepower.
If you take your usual measurement for durability, which is being shot by a predator annihilator, you need over 200 points to kill a single kan on average, According to that, Kanz are tough as nails.
False, Jink saved my army more often then not in 7th. I played speed freak and had anywhere from 20-35 bikers on the table at any given time. Without Jink my army would have died turn 2 at the absolute latest because T5 4+ isn't hard to kill, but T5 with a 3+ Jink save or 2+ Jink save was money.
I guess you were the one player without tau, eldar and daemons in his meta then.
That is what I get for posting while intoxicated, simple stupid mistakes like the CC weapon on a DeffKoptas giving +1 strength not +1 AP.
Basically you and I will never agree, you somehow think Orkz are in a great place even though only 1 list is competitive and has started to decline a lot of late.
I think he, and everyone else here thinks they are in a better place than 7th.
They now have a competitive build that can win tournaments, didnt have that in 7th. They are definetly not bottom of the barrel like 7th
12,000
2017/08/28 06:21:28
Subject: Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
deltaKshatriya wrote: So as the title implies, what are the best armies of this edition? What are the worst? Which ones benefitted the most? Which ones really got the bad end of the deal?
So far I've only played 2 non-competitive games. My first game was Imperial Guard vs Orcs at 35 power. The match was really close, although, in the end, my opponent won, possibly because I'm still not sure how 8th edition has changed up things.
My second game was Necrons vs Imperial Fists, also at 35 power. I played Necrons and completely tabled the Fists. The only losses I took were some warriors in a squad.
As far as I can tell, the armies seem to be much more balanced than before, but some armies have more advantages.
Tau seems to be unhappy, so I guess they got nerfed some. I play Nids, and I think they did pretty good by us. We are reasonably ballenced, and have multiple viable builds.
So far AM seems to have gotten the best deal, they went from "Meh" to "Woah!"
The will of the hive is always the same: HUNGER
2017/08/28 17:37:19
Subject: Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
I think he, and everyone else here thinks they are in a better place than 7th.
They now have a competitive build that can win tournaments, didnt have that in 7th. They are definetly not bottom of the barrel like 7th
From a "Did they get better stand point" I will say some units got better, but a number of units got significantly worse, mostly because of pricing. warbikers and Meganobz are basically unusable at the moment; As are a number of other units that were considered decent last edition.
From a competitive standpoint, they got better, marginally and very situational at best. in the ITC rankings the top ork player is ranked 103 atm, which is almost exactly what last years ITC had orkz rated. John McCool was the highest ranked Ork player at 113th place.
So we got 10 spots better, but its not the end of the year so who knows
My point is that if Orks got better in the tournament scene which the data tells us they did....marginally, then they suffered for it by having the rest of their army become complete trash. You had Ork players bringing Stompas to tournaments last year, this year? 900+pts for a stompa? yeah not going to happen. Overall the Index took a hit, its just that our 1 competitive build is doing ok because it maximizes a type of unit. A SM player who brings lascannons against an Ork Horde is not going to do as well as a SM player who brought a few Stormravens or some Asscan Razorbacks.
U02dah4 wrote: I love the way on dakka everything is competitive and OMG so broken or complete trash and not worth taking
There is middle ground
Not true at all, Last edition I had several tournaments and For Fun Games where I took Warbikers and Killa Kanz even though they clearly weren't competitive but weren't complete trash either. The Kanz actually might have been trash but i loved them and used them anyway. My Battlewagons were also not trash but not competitive and i used them as well. Basically this current iteration of the Ork "Codex" is all or nothing, we have a handful of mildly competitive choices and a host of garbage. We do have some units that might be considered meh but not nearly as many as last edition.
Orcs are by far one of the most improved armies at the moment. Its laughable someone is honestly trying to say they are in a bad spot right now
Orks are only good if you take a Green Tide, 120-150 Boyz list, and if your opponent doesn't take armored vehicles (yeah, right).
Outside of that, they are simply trash - they have no good options when it comes to shooting, vehicles, or anti-armor/flyer.
I'm sorry, just because they have one viable list and playstyle does not a good army make - I'm glad they got something, but let's be realistic with where we think they fall on the power scale.
Orks are number 1 or number 2 best smite spam army in the game. You can take a whole chunk of wierdboyz and a handful of painboyz to pat them on the back whenever they blow something up and surround them with the tide. You will smite off everything and anything your boyz can't simply crump
2017/08/31 17:37:04
Subject: Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
Orcs are by far one of the most improved armies at the moment. Its laughable someone is honestly trying to say they are in a bad spot right now
Orks are only good if you take a Green Tide, 120-150 Boyz list, and if your opponent doesn't take armored vehicles (yeah, right).
Outside of that, they are simply trash - they have no good options when it comes to shooting, vehicles, or anti-armor/flyer.
I'm sorry, just because they have one viable list and playstyle does not a good army make - I'm glad they got something, but let's be realistic with where we think they fall on the power scale.
Orks are number 1 or number 2 best smite spam army in the game. You can take a whole chunk of wierdboyz and a handful of painboyz to pat them on the back whenever they blow something up and surround them with the tide. You will smite off everything and anything your boyz can't simply crump
Definitely not #1 but they are decent. But you aren't going to see a competitive smite spam list for Orkz. They are relatively inexpensive but have no delivery method worth mentioning beyond transports so you are going to use them to support Boyz not to be the primary. SO again it boils down to Green Tide with supporting elements.
Grey knights looked amazing...until I read the matched play rules. Without them GK would be charging out of deepstrike with their entire army after casting about 10 vortex of dooms/purge souls.
As it stands, I think they got a little better.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2017/09/01 06:15:31
Subject: Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
Something that should be pointed out is that due to the insistence on 2000 point armies, players play very few matches at tournaments. Thus, a competitive list is not the list that has the highest win rate, but the highest 100% win rate.
The solution to this is simple: reduce the point count to ~1000, reduce the battle round count, maybe even apply a more stringent time cap. If people are concerned about people not buying models or whatever, have them bring multiple armies or let them bring 2000 points but deploy no more than 1000 of it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/01 06:16:34
2017/09/01 06:52:56
Subject: Re:Best Armies in 8th Edition? Armies That Benefitted the Most? Armies that Really Took a Hit?
My Khorne daemons have become unplayable. I am running world eaters pure CSM now, when I came from daemonkin where most of my army were daemons.
Bloodletters => not worth there cost if you are not summoning. They lost there deep strike what renders them unplayable.
Flesh hounds => Not worth there cost as they are now. They can no longer take the battlefield role they had with KDK, and in small squads they do not have enough punch to be a great disturbance.
Bloodthirsters => became pushovers (they get shot away to fast and they are not even among the really hard hitters in CC)
Bloodcrushers became okay, but not great.
skulltaker became playable, if you play him not fluffy (in the back with the skull canons)
Skull canons are way more unreliable then they used to be.
Soulgrinder is way to unreliable for its pts cost.
The only model I see myself playing , is the herald on juggernaut as a +1S buff between my maulerfiends, blood slaughterers and DP , as he is fast enough to do so. The rest of my khorne daemons is packed with my AOS stuff where they are still good.
For other armies the winners I have seen so far are:
IG, officio assasinorum, tyranids, and sorry guys, Orks. All these armies are performing way better and bring a challenging game to the table where they could not last edition. IG has even become a bit OP.
12,000 
