Titanic units and the problem of going first

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**jeffersonian000**

I would tell them to use their imagination, but it appears they don’t have those either. So I will just say use the Internet, there are thousands of videos on-line on how to craft free gaming terrain from junk. People that can’t build cheap terrain for their expensive hobby are probably not in the right hobby.

SJ

**gwarsh41**

Locally we started to ignore the MACRO rule. After a few large apoc games became very one sided very quickly.

We also learned that in 5000pt+ games. Deep strike is basically useless. So we have apoc house rules for each turn, the 9" range goes down. So turn 3 it's a 6" range, turn 4 is a 3" range. T5" is 1".

Added a lot of fun to the game. Titans could still wipe out big non titan models really easily. Turbolaser will kill a knight or land raider pretty reliably without MACRO, but another warhound will survive a shot, instead of dying pretty easily.

**Unit1126PLL**

gwarsh41 wrote:
Locally we started to ignore the MACRO rule. After a few large apoc games became very one sided very quickly.

We also learned that in 5000pt+ games. Deep strike is basically useless. So we have apoc house rules for each turn, the 9" range goes down. So turn 3 it's a 6" range, turn 4 is a 3" range. T5" is 1".

Added a lot of fun to the game. Titans could still wipe out big non titan models really easily. Turbolaser will kill a knight or land raider pretty reliably without MACRO, but another warhound will survive a shot, instead of dying pretty easily.

I agree with these changes. The MACRO rule is just bonkers (yay for all caps!), and the deep strike rule sounds fun!

**Headlss**

Macro? Rule?

**jcd386**

Headlss wrote:
Macro? Rule?

They are a weapon type in the Forge World books. Basically they do double damage to buildings and <Titanic> units

**Elbows**

Yeah, and the problem is that many 20-22 wound large vehicles have a <TITANIC> keyword and thus are wiped out immediately by any Titan firing its weapons. etc.

**Pink Horror**

Karol wrote:

No idea what a parcel is, but stuff sent through mail general comes bubble wraped in ton of tape and some old cardboard. As the GW boxs go they seem to be very soft, wouldn't stand on any table, people would start cheating by moving terrain around. As cloth used as terrain, that is true warmachine players here do it all the time, in fact I think all of their terrain including bunkers and trenchs etc are cut outs. The problem with w40k terrain is that it can not be abstract.
As cans go, we don't buy stuff in cans. Everything either growths in the backyard or in the backyard of someone grandparents. Cans are crazy prized too. a 1kg of peas from field doesn't even cost 1/3$, and in can it costs 1$. From what I know the closest aquarium shop is Elblang, that is a 6 hour trip there and back, and they may have no useable stuff. Collecting fish isn't a very popular hobby around here, it costs too much and takes up too much space.
As wood goes, good luck explaining to your parents why you are using fire wood to play.

What, is firewood more expensive than a shadowsword model? How well does resin burn? Maybe you should be heating your house with forgeworld models.

**Billagio**

Elbows wrote:
Yeah, and the problem is that many 20-22 wound large vehicles have a <TITANIC> keyword and thus are wiped out immediately by any Titan firing its weapons. etc.

I never understood the logic behind it doing more damage to a TITANIC unit than a infantry model

**IronBrand**

Billagio wrote:
Elbows wrote:
Yeah, and the problem is that many 20-22 wound large vehicles have a <TITANIC> keyword and thus are wiped out immediately by any Titan firing its weapons. etc.

I never understood the logic behind it doing more damage to a TITANIC unit than a infantry model

I assume it's because a shell the size of a tank can only kill a guardsman so hard. Whereas it could knock the leg off a titan.

**Unit1126PLL**

IronBrand wrote:
Billagio wrote:
Elbows wrote:
Yeah, and the problem is that many 20-22 wound large vehicles have a <TITANIC> keyword and thus are wiped out immediately by any Titan firing its weapons. etc.

I never understood the logic behind it doing more damage to a TITANIC unit than a infantry model

I assume it's because a shell the size of a tank can only kill a guardsman so hard. Whereas it could knock the leg off a titan.

Which is what the Damage stat is for. Why does MACRO do double damage to TITANIC units but not to other units?

Shooting at a Bastion with a Titan gun doesn't double the damage, but shooting at a Baneblade does, despite being essentially the same idea (except one can move).

**Crimson**

jcd386 wrote:
Headlss wrote:
Macro? Rule?

They are a weapon type in the Forge World books. Basically they do double damage to buildings and <Titanic> units

It's a terrible rule.

**leopard**

Terrain needs to go back to the very simple concept of "you can see in, you can see out, but you cannot see through" for things like ruins, forests and similar, TLoS is "ok" (I guess) for some things but utterly ridiculous for others.

you could do with something that says the first turn is at extreme range so everyone needs a "6" to hit, or something.

Experimenting locally with APOC modification so only troops and HQ can start on the board, everything else must move on later so everything else always gets the chance to move and fire before its zapped

**malamis**

leopard wrote:

Experimenting locally with APOC modification so only troops and HQ can start on the board, everything else must move on later so everything else always gets the chance to move and fire before its zapped

Did that (inc fast attack for what it was worth) in my last titan dance off, was an excellent decision.

WRT the macro rule, I always figured, since nearly all of them are energy weapons, that it represented the extra damage sustained fire can do over a larger surface area. i.e. a titan plasma blast against a dreadnought would 'splash' outside of the dreadnoughts' silhouette, but a direct hit on an IK or BB would be fully absorbed by the target's structure. With the various flavors of laser, the significant bulky points would be sliced through or cored, where on a leman russ there'd be a lot of wastage (shooting the air) due to the smaller target area.

That said, the implementation is janky as all get out, and titan dance offs come down to 'who has the more rerolls, and who went first' :|

**zerosignal**

I have two large LOS blocking pieces for my games (usually use one in the centre of the table).

Double bastion (essentially two joined together) and a Fortress of Redemption.

Terrain, terrain, terrain. Without it you're going to have a bad time.

**locarno24**

Crimson wrote:
jcd386 wrote:
Headlss wrote:
Macro? Rule?

They are a weapon type in the Forge World books. Basically they do double damage to buildings and <Titanic> units

It's a terrible rule.

I like the 'can't fire overwatch' bit - especially for carapace mounts and superheavy tank fixed guns it makes sense - but I never understood the damage boost.

Note that kill team has got an alternating activation, and works very well as a result.

**tneva82**

locarno24 wrote:
I like the 'can't fire overwatch' bit - especially for carapace mounts and superheavy tank fixed guns it makes sense - but I never understood the damage boost.

Note that kill team has got an alternating activation, and works very well as a result.

Guess they could have upped shots and damage ratios. Guess they just wanted rule that shows those weapons are primarily titan killers. Like special rule titan killer in epic armageddon.