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So there were a total of 5 pods of 8 people. 3 games per pod. Top two scores in each pod advanced to the winners pod. So this can lead to really random results and matchups matter. Also only 4 of 5 pods were able to send the top two people. My pod wasn’t. My pod was harlies 1 deatchwatch 2. There was a ton of tau in my pod only one death guard. The placing of kill teams can be found on best coast pairings however there was a mix of teams. Adeptus astartes won. There were tyranids guardsmen etc. basically all factions were viable

But is there anywhere where I can see the actual lists?

It's going to take a lot more playtesting and organized events before we see a trend. People may think that Thousand Sons or Harlequins are broken, but once you start memorizing your tactics and figuring out the counters, even those tough armies will start to fall apart.

 Niiai wrote:
But is there anywhere where I can see the actual lists?

There was, but probably not any longer unless you're willing to spend some dosh. BCP guys aren't running a charity

What is BCP? Also, I am finding this odd. In the mtg sphere none are running chareties (unless they are donating their money as some are) but we have full acess to full decklists.

 Niiai wrote:
What is BCP? Also, I am finding this odd. In the mtg sphere none are running chareties (unless they are donating their money as some are) but we have full acess to full decklists.

Best Coast Pairings. It's an app used for matching players in tournaments, and you can also use it to see the placings of those events.

I'm kind of surprised in a good way about the lack of agreement on any over powered faction. Makes me think that GW may have gotten the balance right for Kill Team, it's also good to see that the finals at NoVA were not all Harlequins or Death Guard.

It's still early but there is at least some level of balance out of the gate.

What's you guys opinion on Drukhari ? I love the army and as I struggle to build an army for 8th economically speaking I was eager to build 10 Wyches to complete my 10 Kabalites. I played my first game with them today against a beginner Harlequin player, and I did fine. We managed to round 5 where I finally killed his last Player.

I'm personally fond of the Splinter Cannon for all the shots it pumps out, it always managed to make a flesh wound. Also, it killed a wounded Player that charged him. The Player whiffed his 4 attacks, got Shaken at the end of the turn, then next round I fell back, used the Tactic to shoot anyway and killed him point blank. It was a fun plot twist !

Also the Wyches' 4++ in CC is really good, it helped more than once against the powerful swords of the Harlequins, and as my weapons don't have a lot of AP neither his own 4++ didn't change much. I had the +1 WS drug so I basically hit on 2s all game, which felt great with their number of attacks.

They're quite cheap, too, I could field around 9 dudes against his 6 Players. I feel I'm going to struggle more against shooting armies, though.

Did anyone go to the Killteam event at Warhammer World yesterday?

Any views on which team was the strongest?

 Aaranis wrote:
What's you guys opinion on Drukhari ? I love the army and as I struggle to build an army for 8th economically speaking I was eager to build 10 Wyches to complete my 10 Kabalites. I played my first game with them today against a beginner Harlequin player, and I did fine. We managed to round 5 where I finally killed his last Player.

I'm personally fond of the Splinter Cannon for all the shots it pumps out, it always managed to make a flesh wound. Also, it killed a wounded Player that charged him. The Player whiffed his 4 attacks, got Shaken at the end of the turn, then next round I fell back, used the Tactic to shoot anyway and killed him point blank. It was a fun plot twist !

Also the Wyches' 4++ in CC is really good, it helped more than once against the powerful swords of the Harlequins, and as my weapons don't have a lot of AP neither his own 4++ didn't change much. I had the +1 WS drug so I basically hit on 2s all game, which felt great with their number of attacks.

They're quite cheap, too, I could field around 9 dudes against his 6 Players. I feel I'm going to struggle more against shooting armies, though.

I haven’t had much luck with them unfortunately. I too enjoy the Splinter cannon, one of their best options I’d say. I used 7 Warriors and 3 Wyches mostly and every game except against Tyranids has my team slaughtered without doing too much back. Granted I play a lot against Deathwatch who can sometimes seem slightly unbeatable and hugely killy, but their low toughness and saves makes them die instantly and their firepower feels fairly lacking to me.
Maybe I’m playing them wrong, and a Wych heavy team works better, just how it worked out with the models I had (converted them from Van Saar to make an Inquisitor Assassin team).

P.S. I also probably just suck at the game, my time with marines hasn’t been as successful as most people say and my new Rogue Trader group enjoy spending their time out of action.

Nidzrule! wrote:
Did anyone go to the Killteam event at Warhammer World yesterday?

Any views on which team was the strongest?

I did.

Tyranids won, but death guard made out very strongly, getting 40% of the top 10. Players 1-3 went 5 for 0.


1 Tyranids
2 Harlequins (justifiably winning the 'assassin' award after managing a terrifying 19 specialist kills in 5 games!)
3 Tyranids
4 Guard
5 Death Guard
6 Orks
7 Ad Mech
8 Death Guard
9 Death Guard


Most Common Factions:
Adeptus Astartes x 16
Death Guard x 14
Deathwatch x 7
Adeptus Mechanicus x 6
Heretic Astartes x 6
Orks x 6
Tyranids x 6
Astra Militarum x 5
Necrons x 5
T'au Empire x 5
Thousand Sons x 5
Grey Knights x 4
Genestealer Cults x 3
Harlequins x 3
Drukhari x 2
Gellarpox* x 1
Unrecorded-Faction-Because-You-Forgot-To-Put-A-Faction-On-The-Scoresheet x 1

* Someone's a quick painter...


The best factions by average results were:

Tyranids - Average Position 22
Harlequins - Average Position 32
Orks - Average Position 34
Death Guard - Average Position 38
Drukhari - Average Position 39
Deathwatch - Average Position 41
Astra Militarum - Average Position 43
Heretic Astartes - Average Position 46
Grey Knights - Average Position 48
Necrons - Average Position 53
Adeptus Astartes - Average Position 57
T'au Empire - Average Position 59
Gellarpox - Average Position 60
Thousand Sons - Average Position 64
Adeptus Mechanicus - Average Position 67
Genestealer Cults - Average Position 73

Thanks for the information @iocarno24. Did you happen to see what models the top three players were using? Would be interesting to see overlap on the two Tyranid players.

Tyranid player #3 was a Leader specialist Tyranid Warrior Gunner with a Venom Cannon and 19 Termagants with Fleshborers (one veteran and one a scout).

I didn't see the Harlequins in action, but I gather it was high-powered pistols a-go-go. There were (as you can tell) a lot of death guard players, and fusion-pistol-to-the-face is a pretty good answer to disgustingly resiliant...

Tyranid player #1 had more of a mix of units - primarily hormagaunts as the lil' gribblies and I'm pretty sure at least one lictor - but still basically a mix of a small number of big guys and a synapse-commanded swarm.

twenty gaunts is pretty good.

And by twenty I mean 19 and a warrior

Zero Craftworlds, awesome. Well balanced.

 DarknessEternal wrote:
Zero Craftworlds, awesome. Well balanced.

The eldar have had it too good for too long

In fairness, all it proves is that no-one used them; you cannot objectively assess the performance of something no-one tried.

I can't speak for the proportion picking factions for fun, for perceived power, or because they already had them. The preponderance of death guard specifically including those bloody grenade launchers suggests you shouldn't ignore the bias of the UK having Conquest magazine in its early issues....

Equally, in hindsight, I suggest regular eldar might have done fairly well for the same reason the buggy nids did - these were all objective-heavy missions with unique secondary missions that could be won by manouvrability as well as killing stuff (look at the pack, it's non-standard missions and I think quite a few people may have missed that when planning kill-teams!) .

Storm Guardian heavy forces would, I think, have been ideal - more competent than termagaunts without being catastrophically less numerous, and a lot, lot faster (especially with tactics thrown in).

By comparison, watching skitarii who'd (not unreasonably) come loaded for death guard trying to shoot a dozen obscured gaunts off an objective with that single-shot arquebus thing and expensive plasma calivers was kind of painful.

These results are interesting, I didn't expect that after the NOVA results.

Just a question, in these kind of tournaments, do people come with their full roster and pick their Kill Team when they know who they'll be facing or do they have only a single Kill Team for all their games ?

Playing 20 models that can't be broken until the war is up shows how unbalanced toward hordes the nova rules are.
Everything is about taking objectives and swarming 3 of them with 6 termagaunts each and just holding objectives takes not much skill or tactical depth

Daetya wrote:
Playing 20 models that can't be broken until the war is up shows how unbalanced toward hordes the nova rules are.
Everything is about taking objectives and swarming 3 of them with 6 termagaunts each and just holding objectives takes not much skill or tactical depth

Why don't they just roll the missions like everybody ? What's the point of trying to balance missions in the Core Book if it's to use tournament-specific missions anyway ? Horde meta is already dominating 8th Ed, leave KT alone with that please.

Hordes did not dominate nova

Thanks. I am trying out storm guardian horde to see how that pans out. Harlequins dont have enough consistency for my liking but lets see.

 Aaranis wrote:
These results are interesting, I didn't expect that after the NOVA results.

Just a question, in these kind of tournaments, do people come with their full roster and pick their Kill Team when they know who they'll be facing or do they have only a single Kill Team for all their games ?

Roster of 20 and downselect for a mission.
Hordes definitely have an edge in some missions - depends on the objective setup and secondary missions. Secondaries are a choice, and non-hordes have an easier time with many - obliteration is impossible without a multidamage weapon, for example.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nidzrule! wrote:
Thanks. I am trying out storm guardian horde to see how that pans out. Harlequins dont have enough consistency for my liking but lets see.

A 95% kill rate of enemy specialists is pretty impressive consistency

locarno24 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Nidzrule! wrote:
Thanks. I am trying out storm guardian horde to see how that pans out. Harlequins dont have enough consistency for my liking but lets see.

A 95% kill rate of enemy specialists is pretty impressive consistency

I assume you played nova rules and therefore there was no scouting phase? if that's the case Harlequins pulling 2nd is quite impressive, the tables must have had many line of sight blocking terrains.
If not, forward sentries for Harlequins just push them to another level

Harlequins are very good. It behooves you to put enough mass one one or two enemies at a time to kill them in one phase before hitting the next target. You can effectively nullify the enemy’s shooting phase

You can lose 2+ harlies on t1 if the table doesn't have enough hard blocking los elements, and without taking forward positions from the scouting phase you wont be able to send 2-3 of them in melee on t1 anymore

Also, losing initiative vs hordes will result in your harlequins getting killed even by cultists/termagants/guards in melee easily

That said, they are indeed powerful under the right conditions

Daetya wrote:
You can lose 2+ harlies on t1 if the table doesn't have enough hard blocking los elements, and without taking forward positions from the scouting phase you wont be able to send 2-3 of them in melee on t1 anymore

This is just incorrect. The distance between people on turn 1 is well within 3d6.

Thanks for sharing those results. I am quite surprised that Deathwatch didn't rank higher!

 DarknessEternal wrote:

Daetya wrote:
You can lose 2+ harlies on t1 if the table doesn't have enough hard blocking los elements, and without taking forward positions from the scouting phase you wont be able to send 2-3 of them in melee on t1 anymore

This is just incorrect. The distance between people on turn 1 is well within 3d6.

This is just incorrect. The distance between people on turn 1 may be within the result of 3d6. It is definitely not within the minimum (3), and is often not within the average (10.5). Starting zones in the base missions vary between about 8" and 12", but can get as far as 22" in four player games. And that is if everyone is standing at the edge of the deployment zone. If people are wary, and start closer to the back, it is entirely plausible to miss half the charge rolls on turn 1, hence failing to send 2-3 of the harlies into melee on turn 1.

The issue is the terrain for harlies.

There are terrain maps for missions but if the terrain provided does not block LoS fully then Harlies (who are quite tall comparatively due to their bounding models) can get shot.

You need containers or blocks of terrain that Harlies can take advantage of in the centre or close to that space. Without these, they can get shot and once Harlies start dying the momentum quickly drops.