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Lammia wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
What does it matter if their psychic phase isnt ? The FAQ already stated that units arriving as reinforcements cannot move for any reason, not with a stratagem, not with an ability, not with a psychic power.

But then there is also an FAQ saying they can charge, pile in and consolidate, so who even knows what is what at this point.

Honestly how hard can it be to just make the rule "A unit that is set up at any time during a phase is considered reinforcements (this includes, but is not limited to, units that arrive from outside the battlefield and units that are removed from the battlefield to be immediately set up). Units that are considered reinforcements may not move further during the Movement, Psychic or Shooting phase that turn." GW I will literally work for you for free!

It breaks disembarking?

Whaddya know, turns out rules writing isn't as straight forward as some people would have you believe.

Considering that the current disembarking rule give you an exception by allowing you to move, no it doesn't break disembarking.

Whilst I know I've been pushing the "units set up mid phase can't move", I'm not sure whether this means that "units set up mid phase cannot be moved".

This is very different, as there is a movement phase in which a model is relocated by a specific action, which is moving.

so reasonably, one can assume that a psychic power which specifically "Allows a model to move" cannot be used (or can, but has no effect), whereas powers which relocate a model, such as "Da Jump", could, in the same way as charging is allowed.

Though by this logic, if the charging rules state that the model "moves this many inches" (and I suspect they do, don't have the book in front of me) then you could say that one can arrive mid-turn, and may declare a charge, take the overwatch, and then not move due to the rules.

so yeah, the rules are written rather poorly!

If seems that the FAQ is only stating that units that are moved out of phase are to be treated as having moved in the Movement phase, and by extension, any rule that bypasses the normally rules may or may not be used on such units, depending solely on your ability to argue your case. Nice one, GW.

SJ

Wow. I have returned to Dakka for clarification. I do not have any!

I have just read this whole thread. Start to finish. I was unsure before, I am unsure now. I too noticed the removal of the clarification from the FAQ. My issue with the sentence removal is that there was absolutely no explanation for it, nor was there any additional entry to the FAQ to justify it's removal. To me, this was poor form. I can only assume the clarification was added in FAQ Ver 1.2 due to the ambiguity you have all discussed here. Which to me makes the removal of said clarification absolutely baffling.

Anyway. I want to be able to Warptime post using the DMC relic. I also believe that I could justifiably argue its use considering some of the evidence presented above. Honestly though, it is my belief that RAI I am forbidden from doing this. I don't personally agree that it is clear RAW. But I do think it tends to lend itself to restricting me considering the quoted reinforcement rule previously. As such, until there is clarification, I will not attempt to use this combination in any environment. no matte how much I want to.

As an aside, this question was asked on the GW community Facebook page. I understand that these are not official rules writers and they are not placed to make official rulings, but the question directly referred to this debate and therefore I believe it to be relevant evidence. Someone asked if warptiming post DMC was a legal move. Another poster responded, quoting the reinforcement rules as others have in this thread, and stated that due to this rule, a unit moved using DMC could not then subsequently warptime. The official Warhammer community team then replied, and agreed with the ruling that had been stated. Not hard evidence I know, but relevant I think.

Finally, as a question, has anyone emailed the GW FAQ team to ask this question? Surely if enough of us do then we should receive clarification in the future? I am hoping before the next ITC season.

Official rules have nothing to do with ITC. They can make their own rules.

khsofsos wrote:
Hi everyone. Quick question.

Units that use either Da Jump, Dark Matter Crystal or Veil of Darkness.

Can these units be chosen to move again with an ability in the shooting phase or physic phase. ??

Easiest example is Thousand Sons using Dark Matter Crystal and Warptime.

Is this allowed

Based on GW past history, and given the responses to date, the answer would be no.

GW does not want a unit that deploys/redeploys more than 9" away from an enemy, in the same turn, to be able to walk closer to the enemy, and to then get an easy charge off. The few units that could do it before FAQ2 lost those abilities.

 Smirrors wrote:

khsofsos wrote:
Hi everyone. Quick question.

Units that use either Da Jump, Dark Matter Crystal or Veil of Darkness.

Can these units be chosen to move again with an ability in the shooting phase or physic phase. ??

Easiest example is Thousand Sons using Dark Matter Crystal and Warptime.

Is this allowed

Based on GW past history, and given the responses to date, the answer would be no.

GW does not want a unit that deploys/redeploys more than 9" away from an enemy, in the same turn, to be able to walk closer to the enemy, and to then get an easy charge off. The few units that could do it before FAQ2 lost those abilities.

Indeed, it would seem there's a good reason to suggest the intent is clearly "no".

I hope many others have emailed 40kfaq@gwplc.com with this question to get a truly definitive answer - though I am in the camp that because the Reinforcements section discusses units set up mid-turn rather than just units arriving from Reserves, that the answer is definitive albeit potentially confusing.

I'm on board with P5 and BCB with this. IMHO

If a unit was removed from the battlefield and arrives back and has to do so following the rules of 9" away from an enemy unit then to me thats re-inforcements not tactical reserves.



[EDIT] added attachment of flow chart

I thought GW covered this on Facebook and they aren’t reserves. I know! FB isn’t an official faq etc but it is from the company making the game. That’s plenty official for me.

Andykp wrote:
I thought GW covered this on Facebook and they aren’t reserves. I know! FB isn’t an official faq etc but it is from the company making the game. That’s plenty official for me.

They aren't reserves.

However, they are still reinforcements.


Edit:

Notably, LVO is not gonna allow it, if you plan on playing there.

Just as a retort to anyone saying the Psychic phase would allow you to move, I would ask that you provide a power or ability that allows you to move and does not specify that "you may move as though it were the movement phase." The FAQ states you used your whole MOVEMENT phase, and these psychic abilities are effectively granting an exception to pretend its the movement phase again, which as already been used completely. So this argument doesn't fly for my interpretation.

So if a unit is re-deployed via a psychic power or stratagem do they count as coming from reserves for the purposes of auspex scan type stratagems?

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
So if a unit is re-deployed via a psychic power or stratagem do they count as coming from reserves for the purposes of auspex scan type stratagems?

It would depend on the power, but Auspex Scan only cares about units "set up on the battlefield as Reinforcements", it does not mention Reserves at all. For purposes of DMC/Da Jump/Etc, yes, Auspex Scan works against them.

 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
So if a unit is re-deployed via a psychic power or stratagem do they count as coming from reserves for the purposes of auspex scan type stratagems?

Auspex Scan says "set up on the battlefield as Reinforcements" not reserves.

Oh ok thank you for correcting my mistake. So it would work on any form of deep strike type ability then. Cool, cool.