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Drukhari's wyches: they just need to be 6ppm. Close combat oriented troops aren't as effective as shooty ones and kabalites are 6ppm. They just need this I think.

Drukhari's splinter cannons: they can drop to 5ppm or double their shots keeping the current price. At the moment it's impossibile to justify them at 10 points when free splinter and twin splinter rifles are the alternative.

Drukhari's incubi: flat +1A and 4++ in close combat. That's what would make them worthy of their 16ppm being just T3 1W melee dudes with no obsession bonus.

Orks burna boyz: they can go 8-9ppm or get proper D6 flamers. Even something in between at 10ppm and D6 autohits from their burnas.

Orks nauts: they just need a flat 50-60 pts reduction.

Ork killa kanz: flat +1 to their WS.

Ork bikes: points drop to 18-20ppm and 5+ invuln if they moved in the previous turn. Dakkaguns (and also big shootas from other units) imporoved to AP-1.

SW blood claws: since they're SM with BS4+ and pistols they need to be cheaper than the standard dudes. Just this.

SW TWC: drop their shields' cost to 5ppm. Also some of their favorite weapons should go down in points like wolf claws and frost swords.

SM drop pods: just make them 50ppm or allow them to land closer than the standard 9'' limit. If they do so units that disembark cannot charge though.

Orks 9000
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
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The dark behind the eyes.

 Blackie wrote:
Drukhari's wyches: they just need to be 6ppm. Close combat oriented troops aren't as effective as shooty ones and kabalites are 6ppm. They just need this I think.


I think the real issue with Wyches is that they just don't serve much purpose.

They were good when the game was infantry-based with relatively few tanks.

However, in an age of not just vehicles but super-heavies, they're a solution looking for a problem.

What's more, even if you make them cheap, they'll lack the (intra-army) support to be effective.


 Blackie wrote:

Drukhari's splinter cannons: they can drop to 5ppm or double their shots keeping the current price. At the moment it's impossibile to justify them at 10 points when free splinter and twin splinter rifles are the alternative.


Instead of more shots, what about giving them AP-1?

 Blackie wrote:

Drukhari's incubi: flat +1A and 4++ in close combat. That's what would make them worthy of their 16ppm being just T3 1W melee dudes with no obsession bonus.


A 4++ seems a bit much, honestly. Or, more accurately, it seems weird that Incubi would have access to better invulnerable saves than 2/3 of our HQs.

I think a 5++ would be reasonable.

Also, instead of giving them more attacks, I'd suggest giving them +1S and letting the whole unit benefit from Lethal Precision.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
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Banshee's, either +1S or reroll wounds on the charge

Falcons, innate deepstrike, maybe a disembark strat for passengers

Wraithlords, a ++ shield option

Night Spinners, a strat similar to Prisms


"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED." 
   
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 vipoid wrote:

They were good when the game was infantry-based with relatively few tanks.

However, in an age of not just vehicles but super-heavies, they're a solution looking for a problem.

Well, infantry screens are a thing and it would make sense if Wyches were great at shredding them. They aren't, but the should.

Only the insane have strength enough to prosper. Only those who prosper may truly judge what is sane. 
   
Made in de
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Somewhere near Hamburg

LR Vanquisher: Change damage to 6+d6

Horrors: Excempt them from the rule of Smite cost increase. They only Smite with one d6 for the psychic Test and thus are currently unable to Smite if anything else did it before in that Turn.

Scarabs: Move to troop Slot

Astra Milit..*blam* Astra Milliwhat, heretic? 
   
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Italy

 vipoid wrote:
 Blackie wrote:
Drukhari's wyches: they just need to be 6ppm. Close combat oriented troops aren't as effective as shooty ones and kabalites are 6ppm. They just need this I think.


I think the real issue with Wyches is that they just don't serve much purpose.

They were good when the game was infantry-based with relatively few tanks.

However, in an age of not just vehicles but super-heavies, they're a solution looking for a problem.

What's more, even if you make them cheap, they'll lack the (intra-army) support to be effective.


Cutting down screeners is a thing in 8th edition. Ok we have grotesques for that role in melee but just them actually. I honestly like how wyches are in this edition, they are already effective against screening units that have a size of 20 dudes at most, with all their possible buffs, but 8ppm for T3 6+ melee dudes is definitely too much.


 vipoid wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Drukhari's splinter cannons: they can drop to 5ppm or double their shots keeping the current price. At the moment it's impossibile to justify them at 10 points when free splinter and twin splinter rifles are the alternative.


Instead of more shots, what about giving them AP-1?



I'd like that as well. More shots instead of some AP would be better for fast rolling though.

 vipoid wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

Drukhari's incubi: flat +1A and 4++ in close combat. That's what would make them worthy of their 16ppm being just T3 1W melee dudes with no obsession bonus.


A 4++ seems a bit much, honestly. Or, more accurately, it seems weird that Incubi would have access to better invulnerable saves than 2/3 of our HQs.

I think a 5++ would be reasonable.

Also, instead of giving them more attacks, I'd suggest giving them +1S and letting the whole unit benefit from Lethal Precision.



4++ only in combat though, basically the same rule that wyches have, not a flat 4++. I wouldn't give incubi a real invuln that works against anything.

+1S is even more powerful than +1A but yeah they need to be more killy in combat.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/05 19:35:26


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All Infantry in the Custodes Codex get +1 Attack. Ideally i want some wound spillage like AoS but thats hardly minor! A single Custodian can only kill 3 cultists/guardsman at most, which is disappointing!

I think everything in all Marine codexes could also do with a +1 Attack too
   
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The dark behind the eyes.

 Blackie wrote:

Cutting down screeners is a thing in 8th edition. Ok we have grotesques for that role in melee but just them actually. I honestly like how wyches are in this edition, they are already effective against screening units that have a size of 20 dudes at most, with all their possible buffs, but 8ppm for T3 6+ melee dudes is definitely too much.


Maybe it's because I don't see many screening units.

Hence, I'm more interested in seeing Wyches be a threat in and of themselves, rather than a counter to a niche unit.


 Blackie wrote:

4++ only in combat though, basically the same rule that wyches have, not a flat 4++. I wouldn't give incubi a real invuln that works against anything.


Ah, I think I missed the 'in combat' part. Yeah, I could get behind that.

 Blackie wrote:

+1S is even more powerful than +1A but yeah they need to be more killy in combat.


I'd lean towards more strength or damage simply because i believe they already have a decent number of attacks. Any more and the Klaivex will have more attacks than a Succubus.

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
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Ice_can wrote:
Spoiler:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
 Galef wrote:
 Kcalehc wrote:
 Galef wrote:
Bolters
Give them a -1, maybe -2, on an unmodified wound roll of 6.
I support all Bolter weapons having some bonus on 6s to wound. it doesn't matter what, whether being AP-1 (or AP-2 for Heavy Bolters) or Damage 2, whatever. Explosive Rounds needs to be a rule for Bolters!

I also think that Heavy Bolters should be Rapid Fire 2, maybe even RF3. That would make them far more appealing and versatile for regular Marines.
I just don't get why the bigger version of a Bolt gun, a RF weapon, would not also be a RF gun

Necron Gauss Flayer & Blaster are both RF
Eldar Shuiken Catapults & Cannons are both Assault
DE Splinter Rifles and Cannons are both RF
Why does every Marine/human weapon that is bigger than a standard infantry sized gun HAVE to be a Heavy Weapon?

-


Mostly I suspect the Heavy Bolter is 'Heavy' is because Imperial Guard (and SoB, and other Imperials) use it too, and it'd be a touch good at RF3 in a Guard squad (or a guard HWS jumping out of a Chimera, or on a Tank Commander with 3 of 'em, e.g.).
Perhaps Marines should have access to a different weapon, say a 'SAW Bolter' that's RF3, and the regular Heavy Bolter can stay with other Imperial forces at Heavy 3.
Which is all well and good, except, Guard and Sisters have their own profile for HBs, which could remain Heavy.
The Marine entry for HB could be RF2/3 due to the Marines themselves being able to actually lift it and use it.

There is even precedence for this "type swapping" in the Dark Eldar Codex. Dark Lances are Heavy on Infantry, but Assault on Vehicles. So why not the HB?
And it's not like "Heavy" in its name matters, just look at Heavy Flamers and Assault cannons. In fact, it would be more consistent with those 2 if it WASN"T a Heavy.

-


Though why would ours be heavy, and their be assault or rapid fire? After all, we hip fire them and carry them exactly like Marines. That said, as a heavy machinegun analogue, heavy suits the heavy bolter just fine. Storm Bolters are the light machine gun analogues.


As for changes I would make:
Predator to T8 [medium tank, not light tank]
Vindicator to Sv 2+ [siege shield]
Baneblade, Land Raider to T9
Remove the fire twice rule for Leman Russ [and everything else]

Battle Cannon to 2d6 shots naturally.
Demolisher Cannon to 2d6 or 3d6 shots, S10, D2 or D3. It's a giant gun that hurls a trashcan full of high explosive, not an armor piercing shell. It's more like a ISU-152 than a SU-100. It should inflict a lot of hits, each with moderate damage.
Vanquisher Cannon to S16, D2d6. It won't impinge on the Shadowsword because the Shadowsword does that 6 times average. Melta should be 2x strength or something to actually improve ability to hurt a vehicle of close, and the Vanquisher should be single-shot high damage.

I'd go more conservative on the BC to 3D3(also less swingy)
The demolisher cannon is a problem as 8th edition doesn't have the mechanics to represent how it's real life inspiration worked.
Vanquisher at S16 D2d3 maybe but 12 wounds is one shooting most vehicals, which cost more than it does.


2d6 is what the Battle Tank does now, just through the form of a rule, which covers up the fact that the battle cannon is absolutely atrocious by giving it a second one, basically, and ignoring the other carriers of the weapon [Marcharius, Vengeance Battery, Imperial Knight]. And it's still not great unless you can get some dice fixing and improved BS.

WRT the Vanquisher, that's kind of the point. It wouldn't be the only such device, and a dedicate AT gun should be actually effective at antitank, which it isn't because it doesn't do anything meaningful with a single shot that's capped at being entirely unable to degrade a vehicle. With 2d6 damage, the antitank gun would be able to reliably cripple vehicles struck, and sometimes [rarely] would be able to actually finish it off. The Vanquisher should be 1 shot at 2d6, especially considering the vehicle that's supposed to be a weaker stop-gap version made where they can't manufacture the high velocity guns and shells is a twin lascannon that does what is in essence 2d6 [2 shots for 1d6]. It also wouldn't be a change from it's current state, which is the worst Leman Russ variant, since it currently gets 2 shots for 2d6b1 each, the key is being S9+ so it can actually present a capacity for the destruction of enemy heavy armor in excess of the ordinary Battle Cannon. Theoretically.

I suppose it's more that the battle cannon is more effective than lascannons etc against most vehicals which is just so wrong.
That was why I was suggesting 3D3 it also reduces the amount of a buff being catachan is for tanks 4d3 discard the lowest while still a buff but not a bad as 3d6 discard the lowest vrs 2d6.

Again it's not that I don't see the logic it's just people already take battle cannons because they outperform 4 lascannons shots.
My concern is that your building a tank killer that still no-one takes because it's so swingy.


Wait... I thing you've got it backwards. It would be, and feel very wrong for a tank's primary gun to be weaker than a man-portable tripod fired gun crewed by a team of two. A lascannon is on the scale of like a PIAT or recoilless rifle. A Battle Cannon is like a 120mm tank gun, it should be way better than anything two infantrymen or one space marine can haul around.

Also, the Annihilator is supposed to be a crap version of the Leman Russ, produced where the factories lack the resources and the technical talent to produce the real Vanquisher gun. Which is why, I think that it needs to do at minimum 2d6 damage [so as to be equal in output to the twin lascannon], and be high enough strength to wound heavy armor on a 2, so that it's actually better than a lascannon. Being strength 9-15 and having reliable damage [like 6+D6, as somebody mentioned] would be okay, but I think 6+D6 might be on the scale of "too scary", because it would sextupule the odds of getting 11-12 damage and instakilling a medium tank.

It should not ever be preferable to equip a tank with a man portable light weapon or pair thereof over an actual tank gun.


Anyway, my thoughts on tank guns:
Battle Cannon: 2d6 shots, S8, AP2, D1d3
Executioner Plasma Cannon: 3d3 shots, S7/8, AP3, D1/2
Eradicator Nova Cannon: 2d6 shots, S6, AP2, D1 or 2, Ignores Cover [or maybe "automatically hits". The Eradicator has always been just a crappy Battle Cannon, I don't know what to do with it. Giving it autohits would give it a place targeting things with -1's to hit, though it would still be bad]
Twin Autocannon: 4 shots, S7, AP1, D2. It's a twin autocannon. I can see an argument for being twinned up predator/helverin autocannons so it's also not another crappy forgetable variant, but like, to be honest, with 9 Leman Russ variants, some are going to be crappy, and the one with two autocannons is kind of asking to be that that group.
Vanquisher Cannon: 1 shot, S16, AP3, D2d6.
Twin Lascannons: 2 shots, S9, AP3, D1d6. Similar to the above, but ever so slightly worse.
Demolisher Cannon: ??? shots, S10, AP3, D3. I don't know what I want this thing to have for shot count. My gut feeling, and some logic, says it should have equal to or more than the Battle Cannon, since it has a larger bursting charge and is a much more powerful gun, but like then it would just be super strong with 2d6 shots. Maybe 3d3 shots, or just being highly priced and short ranged are enough.
Punisher Gatling Cannon: 20 shots, S5, AP0, D1. Really, this is fine as is and would be much less ridiculous without the fire-twice rule.
Destroyer Laser Cannon: 1 shot, S16, AP4, D3d6. This is the really big hull gun on the Destroyer.
Predator Autocannon: 2d3 shots, A7, AP3, D2. It doesn't need to be D3, you should prefer the Predator Annihilator for tank-breaking.

I think that covers the Leman Russ, Vindicator, and Predator, and also in the process the Macharius tank.

At the same time, I think the statlines should change a bit too of the base vehicles:
Predator: T8, W12, Sv3+, M10". It should be a tank, not an APC with a turret and a light gun, the fact that the model is a APC with a turret and a light gun notwithstanding.
Vindicator: T8, W12, Sv2+, M10". 2+ for the siege shield.
Leman Russ: T8, W12, Sv2+, M6". 2+ for formerly being AV14/13/10 vs AV13/11/10, trash movement because it's an infantry tank by doctrine and was supposedly heavily armored and very slow.
Land Raider: T9, W16, Sv2+, M10". Heavy-heavy tanks should be T9, Medium tanks should be T8, and light tanks T7. T9 would also make man-portable AT go boink more often, and make heavy tanks special for their heaviness and require big AT weapons to break open.


As for some other ideas:
Turreted tanks might ignore the move-fire penalty for their turret, assault guns might get +1 to hit or something for sitting still. +1 might be too much, maybe re-roll 1's or something.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/05 23:45:04


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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I'd give my Xiphons a 2+ save. They are atmospheric reentry capable craft. I'd think their armor was slightly more durable than regular power armor.

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 vipoid wrote:


Maybe it's because I don't see many screening units.

Hence, I'm more interested in seeing Wyches be a threat in and of themselves, rather than a counter to a niche unit.


A niche unit??? The most overpowered imperium lists are all about screeners. Guardsmen are the most effective screening unit in the game and probably the unit that should be hit the most along with knights. The nastiest imperial knights combos can be countered easily without screeners. Even orks use lots of screeners now. Chaos armies screen the superheroes as well. Eldar have them like many competitve drukhari lists since wracks serve no other purpose than mess deepstrikers or chargers as they have no shooting and very little cc ability (way worse than wyches). Competitive 40k in 8th edition is basically just a matter of bringing a few overpowered units that do the heavy work and screeners to protect them.

The problem with wyches is that they are already a threat against pretty much every infantry unit in the game but they cost too many points for that role. A squad of 10 that is equipped with 3 CC special weapons and an agoniser hitting on 2s with on offensive wych cult obsession (cursed blade or strife) and the drug (+1A or +1S) is already extremely deadly. Strife girls can even fight twice. I mean with the proper buffs 10 wyches can already kill a mob of 30 orks.

A 20pts cheaper squad of 10 and a 40pts cheaper squad of 20 could give them more appeal, and I think also blast pistols should drop to 5-7 points like plasma and fusion pistols.



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/06 08:45:16


Orks 9000
Space Wolves 6500
Drukhari 4500 
   
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Predator Baal. Make 80 points base and Flamer weapons become Assault
   
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The dark behind the eyes.

 Blackie wrote:
A niche unit??? The most overpowered imperium lists are all about screeners.


I thought they were more about getting CPs from cheap units to fuel expensive ones.

Either way, I'm not saying that those lists don't exist, I'm saying that not everyone plays them.

I call them 'niche' because a) not every army has (or uses) screening units. And b) many Imperium players don't want to ally in guardsmen or such to act as screening units.

I'm guessing you see more of them if you go to tournaments, but playing at a club I really don't see them all that often.


 Blackie wrote:

The problem with wyches is that they are already a threat against pretty much every infantry unit in the game but they cost too many points for that role. A squad of 10 that is equipped with 3 CC special weapons and an agoniser hitting on 2s with on offensive wych cult obsession (cursed blade or strife) and the drug (+1A or +1S) is already extremely deadly. Strife girls can even fight twice. I mean with the proper buffs 10 wyches can already kill a mob of 30 orks.

A 20pts cheaper squad of 10 and a 40pts cheaper squad of 20 could give them more appeal, and I think also blast pistols should drop to 5-7 points like plasma and fusion pistols.


Do you think that transport costs will still cause issues? Or are you thinking that cheap Wyches will just forego transports altogether and footslog across the table?

Akiasura wrote:
I hate to sound like a serial killer, but I'll be reaching for my friend occam's razor yet again.
 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

"Prepare to open fire at that towering Wraithknight!"
"ARE YOU DAFT MAN!?! YOU MIGHT HIT THE MEN WHO COME UP TO ITS ANKLES!!!"



 insaniak wrote:

You're not. If you're worried about your opponent using 'fake' rules, you're having fun the wrong way. This hobby isn't about rules. It's about buying Citadel miniatures.

Please report to your nearest GW store for attitude readjustment. Take your wallet.
 
   
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Italy

 vipoid wrote:

 Blackie wrote:

The problem with wyches is that they are already a threat against pretty much every infantry unit in the game but they cost too many points for that role. A squad of 10 that is equipped with 3 CC special weapons and an agoniser hitting on 2s with on offensive wych cult obsession (cursed blade or strife) and the drug (+1A or +1S) is already extremely deadly. Strife girls can even fight twice. I mean with the proper buffs 10 wyches can already kill a mob of 30 orks.

A 20pts cheaper squad of 10 and a 40pts cheaper squad of 20 could give them more appeal, and I think also blast pistols should drop to 5-7 points like plasma and fusion pistols.


Do you think that transport costs will still cause issues? Or are you thinking that cheap Wyches will just forego transports altogether and footslog across the table?


No, the transport is already ok. It's actually just the raider, as wyches want to be 10ish or more to do something and raiders are very well costed IMHO. Their transport may also be invaluable to charge a unit before wyches in order to soak overwatch as it should tank very well low S low AP shots, which is what wyches should go after.

Alternatively the 20 man squad should work as well, in fact 10 wyches in a raider and 20 wyches on foot have exactly the same cost. If wyches become cheaper the max mob would be 20 points cheaper than the raider+10 wyches combo which makes sense as the vehicle has a natural invuln against shooting, a good weapon and better movement.

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Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:At the same time, I think the statlines should change a bit too of the base vehicles:
Predator: T8, W12, Sv3+, M10". It should be a tank, not an APC with a turret and a light gun, the fact that the model is a APC with a turret and a light gun notwithstanding.
Vindicator: T8, W12, Sv2+, M10". 2+ for the siege shield.
Leman Russ: T8, W12, Sv2+, M6". 2+ for formerly being AV14/13/10 vs AV13/11/10, trash movement because it's an infantry tank by doctrine and was supposedly heavily armored and very slow.
Land Raider: T9, W16, Sv2+, M10". Heavy-heavy tanks should be T9, Medium tanks should be T8, and light tanks T7. T9 would also make man-portable AT go boink more often, and make heavy tanks special for their heaviness and require big AT weapons to break open.
.


So can my Monstrous Creatures which can pay similar points to land raiders and so on get T9? Would certainly help Tyrannofex, Tervigon and other giant 220 pt + monsters.

Also would love the same for Daemon Lords, maybe Nurgle T9 as it damn well should be and the rest T8. Close combat focused giant monsters really don't achieve much this edition with knights, amigers (WHY ARE THEY SO CHEAP?!) and a lot of super heavy weaponry so easily available and cover being basically non existent,
   
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Chimera - Make it BS5+ (turret allows you to fire heavy weapons with no movement penalty) and lower toughness to 6 (open topped chimera go to toughness 5).

Idea is to then drop the cost by a fair amount and make the simple chimera light tank conversion a thing in white dwarf (moving the turret back, cut transport capacity to 6, BS4+, double shots if half move or less from the turreted weapon).

On a similar chimera bent the forgeworld turret chimera would become transport 10 to account for the extra ammo requirements.
   
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Whilst they are not exactly underperforming, I would cancel the FAQ nerf on Canoptek Wraiths. Whilst FLY units probably did need the nerf, Wraiths should be able to move through terrain in all phases of the game including the fight phase. That is their entire gimmick and always has been
   
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Cynista wrote:
Whilst they are not exactly underperforming, I would cancel the FAQ nerf on Canoptek Wraiths. Whilst FLY units probably did need the nerf, Wraiths should be able to move through terrain in all phases of the game including the fight phase. That is their entire gimmick and always has been


Oh god where was that written? Jesus h keerist i wish they would stop letting people who hate necron players change the rules!

Oh, you probably meant this:

Page 215 – Sudden Death Change point 2 to read: ‘If at the end of any turn after the first battle round, one player has no models on the battle field, the game ends immediately and their opponent automatically wins a crushing victory. When determining if a player has any units on the battle field, do not include any units with the Flyer Battlefield Role – these units cannot operate within a combat airspace indefinitely and they cannot hold territory without ground support. Furthermore, do not include any units with the Fortification Battlefield Role unless they have a unit embarked inside – even the most formidable bastion requires a garrison if it is to pose a threat.’

Source: http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2017/07/40k-gw-drops-nerf-bat-flyers.html

Yeah, I was Ok with it, since wraiths are essentially robots I can see them hot really counting as a holding force, you need some real necrons units to hold or control ground. I'm ok with it.

As to an underperforming unit, the monolith is so pathetically under gunned I won;t use one. It's git these huge cannons sticking out of the corners that look som awesome, and it;s firepower is more like a bunch of "ZAP! flags sticking ou the barrels....

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/09 00:45:58


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No I meant this from the September Necron errata



Meaning that the Wraith form rule is in line with the FLY keyword, they can only ignore terrain in the movement phase. But thematically it makes absolutely no sense.
   
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Cynista wrote:
No I meant this from the September Necron errata



Meaning that the Wraith form rule is in line with the FLY keyword, they can only ignore terrain in the movement phase. But thematically it makes absolutely no sense.


Ok. Hmm, well maybe the wraiths have to "phase in" to attack so they can't pass thru stuff, but you're right, that is a buttpain for trying to see why they can't advance thru stuff.

Still, wraiths are one of a necron army's better units.

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Might have already been said earlier (didn't feel like reading the whole thread) but give Deathwing and all other Terminators a damage reduction ability. Like, "All damage taken by this model is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1". This would mean Termies don't just get blinked out by overcharged Plasma or Autocannons, but weapons with flat 3 damage (like Armiger Helverins and Predators) will still be a good solution to them. And massed small arms will still work if you can get your opponent to roll some 1's for the Termies' saves.

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Haruspex - Double the attacks from 4 to 8
   
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 ZergSmasher wrote:
Might have already been said earlier (didn't feel like reading the whole thread) but give Deathwing and all other Terminators a damage reduction ability. Like, "All damage taken by this model is reduced by 1 to a minimum of 1". This would mean Termies don't just get blinked out by overcharged Plasma or Autocannons, but weapons with flat 3 damage (like Armiger Helverins and Predators) will still be a good solution to them. And massed small arms will still work if you can get your opponent to roll some 1's for the Termies' saves.


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 Horst wrote:
Vendettas get the Strafing Run rule from Vultures, so they get +1 to hit units that don't have the "Fly" keyword.


I keep waiting for Roving Gunship to appear in a FAQ for them. It just makes sense with the Valkyries having it.
   
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Gir Spirit Bane wrote:
Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:At the same time, I think the statlines should change a bit too of the base vehicles:
Predator: T8, W12, Sv3+, M10". It should be a tank, not an APC with a turret and a light gun, the fact that the model is a APC with a turret and a light gun notwithstanding.
Vindicator: T8, W12, Sv2+, M10". 2+ for the siege shield.
Leman Russ: T8, W12, Sv2+, M6". 2+ for formerly being AV14/13/10 vs AV13/11/10, trash movement because it's an infantry tank by doctrine and was supposedly heavily armored and very slow.
Land Raider: T9, W16, Sv2+, M10". Heavy-heavy tanks should be T9, Medium tanks should be T8, and light tanks T7. T9 would also make man-portable AT go boink more often, and make heavy tanks special for their heaviness and require big AT weapons to break open.
.


So can my Monstrous Creatures which can pay similar points to land raiders and so on get T9? Would certainly help Tyrannofex, Tervigon and other giant 220 pt + monsters.

Also would love the same for Daemon Lords, maybe Nurgle T9 as it damn well should be and the rest T8. Close combat focused giant monsters really don't achieve much this edition with knights, amigers (WHY ARE THEY SO CHEAP?!) and a lot of super heavy weaponry so easily available and cover being basically non existent,


Sure, whatever, if it's appropriate to the monster's role.

I don't think Monster should have been a unit type separate from Vehicle. That said, I might go 6, 7, 8 for monster and walker toughness, since they're on an intrinsically inferior platform in terms of resilience and stability. A legged unit cannot carry as much armor [or as powerful a gun] and presents a less stable firing platform than a tracked vehicle, and with more/less robust moving parts is more prone to being crippled from damage, but it can cross terrain that a tracked vehicle would have to go around.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/01/11 00:56:03


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Tanks should be able to fall back and fire, perhaps with -1 penalty.
   
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Tau Razorshark and Sunshark Bomber: BF 3+

Otherwise they are pretty fine.

4200 1250 500

 
   
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Give Land Raiders the hability (or a strat at least) to fall back and shoot with a -1 (keeping the POTMS)

Terminators ignore the -1 to hit with PF and TH the turn they charged (only if they charged). If people argue it's OP, make it so it's only on their first attack. That's quite decent. Also, 3-man Terminator units would be very cool!

It wouldn't be crazy to give most Infantry and Necron vehicles a 6++.

Gauss strat to have a +1 to W against vehicles and monsters. 1CP is okay for a single unit.

I'm a classic marine fanboy but recently have been doing some cool conversions with primaris. I'm building a BT "successor" chapter focused on Infantry and melee for officers and sergeants. I'd love to have more options when it comes to melee for them. I know it will eventualy come, but if they just let us make our conversions... Special weapons on regular squads isn't on the horizon so I guess we'll have to stick with the HB squads.

Some Character vanilla dreads would be amazing


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I've always been a sucker for the bog standard chaos space marines.

My humble change would be just adding a 0.

Rapid fire 20 for chaos space marines' bolters.

That should fix their performance issues.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/01/11 10:18:44


 
   
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Personally I'd be real careful with introducing T9 stuff since quite a few armies are largely dependent on S8 anti-tank weapons. I feel like the buff tanks need are instead that they get to fire their main gun even if they're in CC (but not at the unit they're in combat with) or that they can fall back and fire at-1.

Can we please make plasma go back up in cost? Like did that weapon type really need to go down?

I think cultists should just lose the heretic astartes keyword and go back to 4ppm.

While I would love for some armies to be able to use bikers as troops I don't think it'll happen. What all bikers should get is the ability that when they complete a charge move, you roll a d6 for every biker in the unit. On every roll of 6 the charged unit suffers a mortal wounds (they get run over) Bikes should also all probably have the ability to fall back and either shoot or charge.

Terminators (and probably Custodes as well) should have the wounds from their multi-damage weapons spill over in CC. Meaning a thunder hammer smacks three cultists instead of just one.
   
 
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