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Lemondish wrote:

 ph34r wrote:
What are people equipping their Sisters Superior with? Power sword obviously, but then what gun?

Plasma pistol?
Inferno pistol?
Combi-weapon?

Condemnor boltgun exclusively for looks.

Fair enough, it looks cool. I was going for more of a “I’m building the models and I want them to not be weaker than necessary.’

Depends on the role of the unit the superior is in. For passive units meant for actions/ babysitting home objective I'd go vor one of the 24" guns, favorably the condemnor because it helps against targets we might struggle against (tough monsters are often psykers), although basically neither choice will have a big impact on the game. For units going close and personal (dominions with flamer or melta), I'd go with hand flamers. Inferno Pistol is just to bad with low range, 3" melta range and d3D - I only take it on my sacresant superior as a surprise shot in engagement range.

Hey guys so I am finally back to playing more standard sized games. I took about 4 months or so off from them due to a myriad of IRL commitments and instead participated in a Combat Patrol League at my FLGS but I am getting back into 2k games again now that I finally have the time.

I have played a few games so far against the new Marine Hellblaster spam and TSons Cabal/Flamer spam with Magnus and got rocked that latter matchup especially. The marine matchup was way better and honestly without a few key misplays in the final turn (like forgetting to tank shock onto an objective) I probably win since it was so close, but the TSons cabal/flamer spam with double move/doombolt was rough to deal with. My luck was pretty terrible until about Turn 3 but even with some more average rolls I think I would still narrowly lose. I am trying to come up with more list ideas but honestly while my collection is fairly large I just have no interest in playing any Arcos or the Triumph or Junith or even Morties usually, though I will play them over Pengines at least. I would need more Arcos to run a full squad and I have no intention of getting 30 and then I also just do not enjoy the Triumph or Junith models so I have never picked them up. I was wondering if anyone had any advice on certain more competitive list builds that include most of the units I have and would like to use. For reference I am usually bringing the following in most of my lists (obviously in different combinations as I test different things):

-Vahl with Paragon Suits (usually with a mace for tank shock)

-Celestine with either Zephyrim or Hand Flamer Seraphim

-2 Exorcists (with the good missile launchers)

-1-2 Battle Cannon Castigators (sometimes I play 1 with Autocannons)

-1-2 Immolators

-2-3 BSS w/Meltas

-Palatine with the Blade

-1-2 MM Retributor Squads

-An additional HF Seraphim squad

-Sacresants

-Dominions

-1-2 Rhinos

-Dialogus with one of the Rets

These are usually the models I am running in most of my lists and usually the models I most enjoy playing. I will split BSS or Dominions in the Immolators and usually have the Palatine run with either Sacresants or Dominions but I want to try how she does with a BSS too. My base setup in any list is usually Vahl+Suits, Celestine+Zeph/Seraph, 2 Exorcists, Castigator with Battle Cannon, MM Retributors, 2 BSS w/Melta, Palatine with Blade running with Sacresants or something else, and then an Immolator to split one of the BSS. Then everything else gets mixed in depending on the type of list I am trying out or based on what I might know I am up against.

Honestly coming back into 2k games after several months has just made me feel so rusty and inadequate and I am just looking to see if I am on the right track with list building for us right now. I am not trying to be hyper competitive since I do not plan on getting the big combo models like the Triumph or 30 Arcos, but I also do not want to be building parking lots all the time either. I know that flooding the board with models has been working for us to some degree and have plenty of girls that I can run but I also like to bring at least a few Exorcists, a Castigator, and an Immolator. I guess I am just looking for a semi competitive, well-rounded, all-comers list using the units that I enjoy and primarily know how to use.

I am open to any suggestions! Thanks!

Did a tournament.

List was Triump 125
Palatine 65 Blade
Celestine 135
Zephryim 70
Morvenn 125
Paragons 200
Exorcist 160
Castigator 140
BSS 100
BSS 100
Rets 115
Immolator 115
Rhino 75
Rhino 75
Crusader 25
Crusader 25
Arco 40
Arco 40
Dialogus 30
Preacher 40 Saintly
Arcos 130
Mortifier 60

Game 1 was Orkz, He Waaghed Turn 1 and sat on the midline objective after I went first and just put some junk bus units on the objective. Giving Sisters a free counter punch is a bad idea. Tabled turn 4. Also, I had just an insane setup for the 'I choose who you fight' strat.

Game 2 was also Orkz. He Waaghed turn, but it was Hammer and Anvil so he probably should have waited until turn 3. Ended up winning on points, though he scored very well by flooding the midline.

Game 3 was Votann. Hammer and Anvil made this really hard, but I was only slightly behind when it was time for Morvenn and her Suits to come in from outflank...problem was there wasn't a single useful position for them to come in. Because I wasn't able to bring them in...I wasn't able to clear him off the objective enough to reel the score back in. I would have tabled him turn 6 but he was up 91 to 44.

Pretty good event, all things considered: Changes: Deployment game 3 was bad. Put the Triumph squad up front and the Palatine squad in back for reasons I no longer understand.

Retributors are bad. I never got anything useful out of them. Another BSS with the Immo is just better.

The junk bus was still awesome, but I actually had a pretty serious issue getting people to kill the character for the blessing bonus dice.

Either adding an Imagifier/Hospitaller and a unit of Crusaders, or dropping a unit of Crusaders and adding Junith would probably be better than trying to exploit the Saintly Blessing thing.

So now we've had some time to digest the changes are we thinking of swapping Arco-flagellants for repentia?

U02dah4 wrote:
So now we've had some time to digest the changes are we thinking of swapping Arco-flagellants for repentia?

I think repentia and flaggellants have different roles so we still need at least 1 unit of flaggos imho

So looks like we are getting a Jump Canoness, which is definitely nice though the model is kind of meh imo.

More importantly it looks like our codex is only going to have 4 detachments, one based on jump infantry, one based on repentia and other melee focused units, and one based on the holy trinity of weapons along with supposedly a slightly tweaked version of the Hallowed Martyrs detachment. Overall it seems like a bit of a disappointment but we obviously won't know anything until the book either comes out or leaks over the next few weeks along with the standard warcom articles. I was really hoping for 6 detachments at least themed on the main orders but if they at least give us decent detachments in these 4, similar to the Tau codex, then I think it could be fine.

What are we thinking so far? Worst case we become the next Custodes codex I guess lol

I got used to six sub-groups over 8th and 9th, and I miss that. I really like Sacred Rose, with their focus on serenity, and now that's gone. Also, Argent Shroud's speed/ mobility niche will be missed.

However, I've always had a kick for Penitent Legions, and I like the idea of an angelic jump force, and none of the old six were exactly those things, though Bloody Rose was a good fit for a penitent legion since penitent units tend to be close combat focused...

Anyway, I'm likely to have a Cult of Martyrs detachment and a Penitent Legion and a Angel detachment. Sisters are my primary, and I've really been trying to step up building and painting. The Penitent Legion will be heavy on walkers, and will include cameos from Karamazov and Arbites.

I just hope something works well with the current collection of models I have; my stuff is more optimized for last edition and a lot of it isn't terribly good in 10th, and financially I'm in a bit of a bind and can't just go get more models. Otherwise I'm gonna stick with my Dark Angels for this edition, as at least they have some workable builds that my collection will support.

The upcoming codex looks promising.

According to the latest news, the Bringers of Flame detachment will be the way to go for shooty players (all ranged weapons are Assault and get +1S at 12''). On the other hand, the Penitent Host detachment looks a bit overspecialized, and the Army of Faith detachment just doesn't seem worth it (at least on paper).

.

-Guardsman- wrote:
The upcoming codex looks promising.

According to the latest news, the Bringers of Flame detachment will be the way to go for shooty players (all ranged weapons are Assault and get +1S at 12''). On the other hand, the Penitent Host detachment looks a bit overspecialized, and the Army of Faith detachment just doesn't seem worth it (at least on paper).

.

Yeah, if you're not packing maximum Repentance, the Penitent Host may not be the best choice, that's for sure.

At the current points values, unit sizes and other datacard rules, you can max out as follows:

3 x 2 Morties 330
3 x 2 Pennies 330
3 x 10 Repentia 330
3 x 10 Arcos 480

Total: 1470

Take the rest of the points on HQ and rhinos. One of the difficulties is that most Penitent units can't have Leaders. Only Missionaries (which apparently no longer exist) and Preachers can lead Arcoflagellants.

That's it.

-Guardsman- wrote:
The upcoming codex looks promising.

According to the latest news, the Bringers of Flame detachment will be the way to go for shooty players (all ranged weapons are Assault and get +1S at 12''). On the other hand, the Penitent Host detachment looks a bit overspecialized, and the Army of Faith detachment just doesn't seem worth it (at least on paper).

.

It's the best detatchment ability but till we have all the strats it's hard to say. +1ap is really strong on a vahl paragons and arcos

So far I am liking what they have shown us. Obviously we do not have the full picture but even the super specialized Penitent Host looks very usable and if you hear Mr. Nanavati from Art of War talk about it its one of the most busted things this edition. Personally I think Bringers of Flame will be the one I use the most and I think it fits very well with what we want to do currently but I also see value from double Acts of Faith and being able to use MD multiple times on a unit without needing to bring the Triumph is really nice. I think if there is some kind of stratagem or enhancement in Army of Faith that lets you automatically generate a 6 MD either at the start of the game or possibly a few times a game or even like any MD generated by the character is always counted as a 4+ even if you roll less than 4 that would turn it from a "pretty good detachment" to something that is easily one of the best, maybe right up there with Bringers of Flame. Both of those detachments seem somewhat competitive though and I think Hallowed Martyrs will remain usable along with Penitent Host being good. We just have to see more to say for certain, but it seems like (knock on wood) we may be the codex that breaks the curse/trend of Imperium books being pretty bad in 10th so far.

I am pleased with what I have seen so far. Both Bringers and Army of Faith fit my playstyle plus the Ebon Chalice Order theme of literally "Fire (melta or flamer) and Faith." My only disappointment so far is that it seems like we don't have a somewhat durable detachment to represent the Valorous Heart which is the other Order I love aside from Ebon Chalice. I honestly never thought we would get this much love so its nice to see some potential redemption for the 9th edition book that was pretty much "fine" lol.

The triumph now gives you an auto miracle dice of a 6 each battle round so...


.as to durability the faith detatchment with a strategically placed jump unit can give half your army -1 to hit which is reasonably tanky


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Better

Triumph - Amazing

Celestine healing of bodyguards improved

Aestred not awful now but struggling to find a spot

Cannoness much better free strat can join retributors

jump canoness free strat deapstrike single model

Imagifier both 2+ and 4++ solid

Novitiates infiltrate and md gain

Hospitaller 5++ and now resurrects models great

Castigator individually less effective but now a force multiplier

Sacresants +1A and ability works off any character


Same
Daemonifuge broadly the same slight buff on kyganil slight nerf against tyranids who cam now synapse the ld check but competing with jump cannonness

Dialogus slight change meh

Palatine slight change meh

Dogmata no worse meh

Vahl slight buff but not enough but still suffers from the same issues once you kill her unit she's not worth the points

Dominion Squad reactive move and miracle dice gain

Ministorum priest still ok

Retributor slight buff still glass canon

Repentia slight buff in second round of combat # if alive

Paragon +1T and buffed melee is better but still glascannons to anti tank and disappointingly when they fail they charge

Penitent engine same

Seraphim no change

Zephyrim slight change not meaningfull

Mortifier slight change

Exorcist slightly better ap but loss of heavy and some move

Rhino no change


Nerfed
Junith despite being tankier now a miracle dice drain or doesn't get you a cp 10/36 of the time

BSS lost guaranteed miracle dice gained sticky objective

Arcoflagellents big loss in durability

Crusaders gone

Cheap priest for assault gone

Death cult assassins gone

Immolator now strips cover rather than substantially buffing unit inside




As to detatchment

Hallowed martyr slight nerf the loss of +1 to wound strat hits it hard but the auto explode vehicle is nice

Faith really strong strats mediocre detatchment ability

Flames strong detatchment ability weak strats

Penitent very specialised my gut says not quite good enough but could be a nice counter list to meganobs

U02dah4 wrote:
Exorcist slightly better ap but loss of heavy and soke move

Maybe a dumb question, but what's "soke move"?

BSS lost guaranteed miracle dice gained sticky objective

Bleh.

Where'd you get all that info?

.

-Guardsman- wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Exorcist slightly better ap but loss of heavy and soke move

Maybe a dumb question, but what's "soke move"?

BSS lost guaranteed miracle dice gained sticky objective

Bleh.

Where'd you get all that info?

.

"Some move" evidently I can't type

Having 12 hours of train journey in 24 hours and watching just about every codex review on youtube

its all in this one though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sm2B4Ia1qLI&t=2772s

Losing the miracle dice gain from BSS really undermines the Faith detachment- being able to perform two AoF per phase sounds great, but if they take away MD generation, it isn't great at all.

Edit: Ahhh. Simularca have been changed to generate MD now, so we don't need to rely as much on BSS objective camping as we did.

so its not completely removed but you now only get it on a 4+ per objective with a simulacrum (and then you get the 4+). So domminions and also novitiates (who now have infiltrate also do this)

so really its a loss of the 1,2,3 MD (50% per per battle sistered objective) and the old simulacrum generation which was rare

but since we can start on the midboard objectives you could potentially be better off in the early game if you role well

the other thing of note is the triumph now gives you a MD6 per battle round

and that detachment has a couple of extra ways to get them.

Net I still think its the strongest as its ability is always a boost to have reguardless of who your against and its strats are the best

hallowed martyr im not so keen on now it lost its +1 to wound reroll hits instead doesnt help repentia or vahl paragons and arcos lost a big chunk of their durability I might end up going back to it though character resurection is such a strong option to have

if arcos werent nerfed maybe penitent would be ok but its to one trickish

The big contender is really flames which seems great into T10 but its strats are rubbish and require a very boxy build I imagine more players will gravitate to it because extra damage output is obviously of benefit but in practice it doesnt give you the options

U02dah4 wrote:
so its not completely removed but you now only get it on a 4+ per objective with a simulacrum (and then you get the 4+). So domminions and also novitiates (who now have infiltrate also do this)

so really its a loss of the 1,2,3 MD (50% per per battle sistered objective) and the old simulacrum generation which was rare

but since we can start on the midboard objectives you could potentially be better off in the early game if you role well

the other thing of note is the triumph now gives you a MD6 per battle round

and that detachment has a couple of extra ways to get them.

Net I still think its the strongest as its ability is always a boost to have reguardless of who your against and its strats are the best

hallowed martyr im not so keen on now it lost its +1 to wound reroll hits instead doesnt help repentia or vahl paragons and arcos lost a big chunk of their durability I might end up going back to it though character resurection is such a strong option to have

if arcos werent nerfed maybe penitent would be ok but its to one trickish

The big contender is really flames which seems great into T10 but its strats are rubbish and require a very boxy build I imagine more players will gravitate to it because extra damage output is obviously of benefit but in practice it doesnt give you the options

Hallowed is flatly better than it was in the index. Same combos except some new tools and buffed stratagems. Divine Intervention got buffed and Suffering and Sacrifice went from being an AMAZING stratagem to being the single best melee stratagem in the entire game.

Losing the +1 to wound strat is annoying, but almost everything that used it doesn't need it anymore (except arcos) and things that still DO need it, got a lot better with it. Zephyrim, for example, are nuts; as are the now S8, T7 non-vahl warsuits.

You're also just wrong about the Bringer's of Flame strats.

-1AP is REALLY good for us, especially in lists that are light on repentia/arcos. Lethal Hits in fight phase is excellent for fully half of our melee units, repentia, Non-Vahl suits, Pengines, Mortifiers, Halberd Sacresants all love it. All 3 Transport strats are great considering you were already going to be bringing immos with this detachment, and Cleansing Flames is nuts with Seraphim.

Sure, if you bring 100 footslogging noviatiates the strats are bad, but if you lean into what the detachment is trying to do, they're incredibly powerful at facilitating several aggressive shooting/hybrid strategies.

With the immo changes and splitting less effective on BSS due to md change I'm dropping immos entirely and yes I can see it's trying to force you into a boxy build and if that's what you are already doing it's mediocre at best if you wernt it's a big detriment to list building if you have to pay 75pt tax to even activate it

And yes the ap1 is the best strat but -1 to hit 3" aura is better

Just read the Goonhammer review.

Happy that the Penitent Host includes an enhancement that makes a character Penitent. This also allows them to lead a Repentia unit; this strat was literally made to let Pious Vorne lead Repentia, though as the Goons point out, the Palatine's lethal wound ability probably makes her the best candidate.

For me it's a story hook; leader messes up? That leader gets the penitent keyword next game, and joins a unit of Repentia. If the Palatine needs to repent, so be it. But that won't stop me from having Canoness or Priest repent when the story demands it. Tomorrow we get to see the Crusade rules; their tendency so far has been to pretty much preserve any of the 9th ed content that was good... And the sisters had pretty solid content, including rules for swearing the Penitent Oath and being absolved of it.

Most units will join my army as novitiates before being promoted into the roles they are destined to occupy; similar, I don't plan to buy penitent units; units in the list will BECOME penitent according to story triggers. Fail a battleshock test that gives up an objective? You'll be coming back as a penitent unit next game, and you'll stay that way until you're absolved in battle.

So for me, the question of this detachment is when enough units are in a state of repentence to make the detachment's use viable. But the fact that HQ units get in the penitent oath now is story gold.

The Crusade rules are solid.

I don't like the change to Living Saint Abilities, but I understand it- I just think it makes all LS too samey.

But Novitiates can graduate now and become full sisters, and models can still swear a Penitent Oath and be redeemed.