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this is just a personal theory so think of it what you will.

i read somewhere, possibly in a Horus Hersy novel, that the two unknown legions were referred to as 'The Lost and The Purged' and i was just wondering if the answer is in the wording perhaps? of course this may be wrong and seen as its the basis of my theory you may not want to read on.

could it be 'The Forgotten' legion is the one that swelled the ultramarines ranks due to their Primark perhaps never being recovered in the great crusade? This could open the door for GW to possibly create a whole new campaign or to add more to a new SM or even CSM(you never know) codex in future surrounding the possible reappearance of a mysterious figure long thought lost.

'The Purged' would tie in nicely with the whole 'Russ-Emepror's executioner' thing and what he alludes to in a HH novel about having already been unleashed against another legion. this is where i get a bit in depth. i believe that when Horus is on his whole 'hippy trip' while wounded on Davin and goes back to the time the Primarchs are stolen, that when he damages the Stasis pod that he in fact caused events so that that pod would then be open to the warp and, therefore, to corruption. This means that chaos played a double-bluff and in showing not just a vision but in fact taking him back to that time where he could actually influence it if he wanted to. thus in showing Horus the vision and causing his anger etc. they caused him to damage that pod, before it was sucked into the Vortex.
if your following this then it means that the Future would have to happen before the past as Horus would have to have lived through the events where his brother primarch was lost before he goes back in time and causes the events that lead to his brother primarch being lost in the first place. yep i'm feeling that way too.

does this make any sense to anybody?

EDITED: i was confused myself after i read it so might be a bit more plainer now

If you haven't read Aaron Demski-Bowden's HH novel First Heretic then I strongly urge you too. As to not spoil the novel I will just tell you that Lorgar, Primarch of the Word Bearers brings up the 2 unknown chapters while talking to his closest brother Primarch. Its a great read.

I really would love to learn more about the lost legions my self but they don't say much about them

If you haven't read Aaron Demski-Bowden's HH novel First Heretic then I strongly urge you too. As to not spoil the novel I will just tell you that Lorgar, Primarch of the Word Bearers brings up the 2 unknown chapters while talking to his closest brother Primarch. Its a great read.

A few hints please!!!

yer i've read it but i didn't think it alluded to anymore information. can you post the wording?

saying that, my whole theory is based on an obscure phrase i may not have even read in the first place

It may be worth scouring the HH series and collecting the bits, pieces, and mentions of the lost legions.

One of the "lost" Primarchs has to be Omegon; it is the only way that Omegon+Alpharius makes any sense(as otherwise there was 21 Primarchs, with Omy+Alphy being twins).

Ok while on Lorgar's home planet of Colchis, he meets with Magnus the Red. They have a heated discussion about what had happened to his Legion and why they have fallen from grace with the Emperor. Magnus talks of how the Emperor calls his sons together to discuss Lorgar's infraction of worshipping him as a God-Emperor. Magnus asks Lorgar not to ask which brothers were in favor of the Word Bearers because he doesn't truly know where their allegencies were. Magnus follows that up with "Russ was with you, as was Horus." Also stating that Russ and Magnus spoke in Lorgar's favor and this being the first time the two brothers agreed on something. Russ "swore that he'd already lost two brothers and had no desire to lose a third."The mention of the two brothers brings on a hinted story of the cover up and removal from history of the two primarchs and legions. Also that Horus and Fulgrim made the remaining Primarchs promise to never speak of "the Forgotten and the Purged". Thats all I'm going to spill about that.

thanks i knew i'd read that bit about 'the forgotten and the purged'.

does anyone think my theory has anything going for it?



is there actually anything that says all of the legions were united with their Primarchs? as its the basis for my whole 'the Forgotten' argument.

Ok while on Lorgar's home planet of Colchis, he meets with Magnus the Red. They have a heated discussion about what had happened to his Legion and why they have fallen from grace with the Emperor. Magnus talks of how the Emperor calls his sons together to discuss Lorgar's infraction of worshipping him as a God-Emperor. Magnus asks Lorgar not to ask which brothers were in favor of the Word Bearers because he doesn't truly know where their allegencies were. Magnus follows that up with "Russ was with you, as was Horus." Also stating that Russ and Magnus spoke in Lorgar's favor and this being the first time the two brothers agreed on something. Russ "swore that he'd already lost two brothers and had no desire to lose a third."The mention of the two brothers brings on a hinted story of the cover up and removal from history of the two primarchs and legions. Also that Horus and Fulgrim made the remaining Primarchs promise to never speak of "the Forgotten and the Purged". Thats all I'm going to spill about that.

Now I HAVE to read the book!!!

The believe the books (can't remember which specifically) state that the Emperor's Palace has twenty plinths within its walls. On eighteen of these are statues of the primarchs (after the heresy the traitors are covered with cloths so they cannot be seen). The remaining two are empty plinths. It suggests that the missing two were lost before the Heresy, and that they did not turn to Chaos (else there would have been statues).

It's my personal theory that the two missing primarchs were found by the Emperor, but refused to submit to his authority and were killed in combat. In the first heretic it says that the Emperor personally erased them from the records and oathed the remaining primarchs to never speak of them. As for the remaining space marines? The Ultramarines were noted as being much larger than the other legions at the time. It would make sense they were not simply wasted, but placed under the command of the Emperor's most gifted commanders of men. Their genetic lineage would have ended there though.

is there actually anything that says all of the legions were united with their Primarchs? as its the basis for my whole 'the Forgotten' argument.

The question (to me) is, what would cause a primarch(s) newley returned to his(their) legion to be "purged"?

Kommissar Kel wrote:One of the "lost" Primarchs has to be Omegon; it is the only way that Omegon+Alpharius makes any sense(as otherwise there was 21 Primarchs, with Omy+Alphy being twins).

The thing is, Omegon and Alpharius are twins - they are considered to be 2 halves of a whole Primarch. They look exactly alike, think exactly alike, and act exactly alike. This would mean that one of the Legions that had been destroyed would be just like the Alpha Legion (the Omega Legion? heh), which would mean the Alpha Legions' ranks would have increased, not the Ultramarines.

As for the fate of the two Primarchs... I'm not going to conjecture on what caused them to turn (unless we get a few more hints in the HH series), but I think we can accept that they did turn while in control of their Legions. In Prospero Burns, we are told that it is not the first time that the Wolves have been unleashed on another chapter.

As for the Ultramarine's ranks swelling, this is most likely the Terran elements of the 2 Legions. As the Horus Heresy unfolded, the Traitor Legions made sure to destroy the parts of their legions that were more loyal to the Emperor than to their Primarchs - this was, more often than not, the original Terran Astartes that had made up the Legion before the Primarchs began recruiting from the worlds they grew up on.

There was a thread recently discussing the same topic.
Things we know or are hinted at -

The two Primarchs fought.
They were purged from history, no trace left.
Leman Russ was unleashed to 'take care' with one or both.
The Ultramarines received an influx of recruits.

I speculate that one joined the Emperor willingly with his legion, and served for a short time. He then discovered his brother out on the fringe. The Emperor arrived, but this Primarch did not want to join the Imperium. The first Primarch was forced to fight his brother along with Russ, and witnessed The Space Wolves savagery, and was deeply affected by the death of the second brother, whose legion was absorbed by The Ultramarines. He seceded from the Imperium along with his legion, and Russ was sent to hunt him down. Russ destroyed the first brother and his legion completely, leaving no trace.

For the sake of members who haven't read the books why not use the 'spoiler' tab? ...please?

We're not making a whole thread of spoiler messages. They're small parts of book long stories, and there are no parts which ruin plots.

There is some indication in the Space Wolf codex of problems with genetic deviancy from before the HH. It may be the two lost legions had deviancies which eventually passed the limits that were tolerable.

Garviel wrote: when Horus is on his whole 'hippy trip' while wounded on Davin and goes back to the time the Primarchs are stolen, that when he damages the Stasis pod

He didn't go back in time, you know. It was just a vision. This is objectively stated in the book. Specifically, it was a vision being controlled by daemons.

GCMandrake wrote:The believe the books (can't remember which specifically) state that the Emperor's Palace has twenty plinths within its walls. On eighteen of these are statues of the primarchs (after the heresy the traitors are covered with cloths so they cannot be seen). The remaining two are empty plinths. It suggests that the missing two were lost before the Heresy, and that they did not turn to Chaos (else there would have been statues).

It's my personal theory that the two missing primarchs were found by the Emperor, but refused to submit to his authority and were killed in combat. In the first heretic it says that the Emperor personally erased them from the records and oathed the remaining primarchs to never speak of them. As for the remaining space marines? The Ultramarines were noted as being much larger.

Close but a little off. One of the HH books I believe it was the audiobook The Lightning Tower, Rogal Dorn walks in the palace were the statues of him and his brothers stand. 20 plinths with 20 statues. 2 of them had been covered with hanging sheets never to been seen. They say that the Emperor forged his 20 sons to retake retake the galaxy for man. "20 Generals, 20 strong teeth in the mouth of an Empire."
Also we know of only 18 named primarchs and 2 unnamed equalling 20. Are you saying there was more than the 20 Primarch? It's possible but there have always only been 20 primarchs.
But you are correct that the Ultramarines had the largest legion. They received the influx of marines from the destroyed armies. That's why the Emperor had an issue with Lorgar and his compliances and pacification of worlds during the crusade. He had the 2nd biggest legion of marines and the fewest victories. And all of those worlds worshiped the Emperor as God.

Ps- I really need to pick up the new book.

Kommissar Kel wrote:One of the "lost" Primarchs has to be Omegon; it is the only way that Omegon+Alpharius makes any sense(as otherwise there was 21 Primarchs, with Omy+Alphy being twins).

Not really seeing as it is clearly described that Omegon and Apharius made up one single person, having half a soul each, each primarch is directly linked to their marines and both of them are linked to their marines. Its like saying a woman carring to children at the same time doesn't make sense even when they are twins. They are twins, identical twins, which means one incubation pod which means one legion.

The two lost primarchs are clearly know to the other primarches before the time of the horus heresy, seeing as both Omegon and Apharius were active at the time of the heresy your theory falls to pieces pretty quickly.

Point about the latest HH book, Age of Darkness - Forgotten Sons. In this airing of dirty laundry neither side brought up the two lost primarchs or legions. Why would the traitor primarchs honor the oath to not speak of the two lost primarchs? In the arguments Horus's rep could have made up and said whatever damming thing they wanted about the two lost legions and primarchs and the loyal side would not have been able to respond, they knew nothing of the matter.

for the name of one of the legions I heard a theory about the Rainbow Warriors. they are a space marine group from the rouge trader days. one of the pictures is of one of them being shot by a sister of battle. in the the new space marine codex there is a planet called Prism with their symbl next to itthe the message recorded deleted where the chapter name should be.

What doesn't make sense is that the Emperor created 20 primarchs, we know exactly who 18 of them are, well actually 19. Supposedly Big E may not have even known of Omegon's existence; which makes no sense as i think he would have noticed either:

A) the 21 test-tubes/Growth pods the Primarchs were in.

B) the 2 embryos, and later babies, in Alpharius' test-tube/growth pod.

There are plot holes in Alpharius-Omegon's story-line that anyone who stopped to think about it for 2 seconds could fly a Battle-barge through.

I am fine with twins, paternal or identical; they make sense. An engineer who doesn't know that his test-tube has twins in it does not make sense.

Well my personal theory is that both of the missing primarchs were women. That would mean that their gene seed would be compatible only with females, giving a whole new angle on the female marines argument. Maybe they are still around somewhere, one a loyalist who was lost, the other a traitor who was purged.

However, this is just my opinion with no founding in evidence or fact. It would be fun though.

the reason for 2 primarchs was, when the Chaos Gods stole the primarchs, the Alpha Legion primarch got Copy-Pasted.


the Emperor knew of Omegon's existance, but the Imperium as a whole didn't know.

Omegon also, when he did appear in public, would say he was Alpharus.

Grey Templar wrote:Omegon also, when he did appear in public, would say he was Alpharus.

I think that was (is?) standard practice for the entire Alpha Legion, not just Omegon.

'The Lost and The Purged'

If that's the names of them isn't it kind of obvious?

One was lost in the warp, the other was purged for a reason so terrible it was taken off the record.

Corruption? Plague? Traitors? We may never know.

First, I'd like to point out to those who think Omegon is primarch number 19..... I'm sorry but no. Alpharius and Omegon are one primarch. Stated in the HH book Legion, they are one primarch in two bodies. Each has only half of a soul that when combined would make a complete Primarch. They are exactly the same in EVERY way possible, even how they think. Also, when Horus had his vision of the Primarchs in their little test tubes, there were only 20. Alpharius and Omegon were probably at the time just one primarch. I think the vortex that sent them through the Warp to Emperor knows where mutated Alpharius and split him in two, creating Omegon.

As for the two Unknown Primarchs, well......

Well my personal theory is that both of the missing primarchs were women. That would mean that their gene seed would be compatible only with females, giving a whole new angle on the female marines argument. Maybe they are still around somewhere, one a loyalist who was lost, the other a traitor who was purged.

However, this is just my opinion with no founding in evidence or fact. It would be fun though.

This wins. Just sayin'

its impossable.

the fluff is quite clear the emperor had 20 sons. not 20 children.


the 2 missing legions were entirely for players to make their own fluff about.

Kommissar Kel wrote:What doesn't make sense is that the Emperor created 20 primarchs, we know exactly who 18 of them are, well actually 19. Supposedly Big E may not have even known of Omegon's existence; which makes no sense as i think he would have noticed either:

A) the 21 test-tubes/Growth pods the Primarchs were in.

B) the 2 embryos, and later babies, in Alpharius' test-tube/growth pod.

There are plot holes in Alpharius-Omegon's story-line that anyone who stopped to think about it for 2 seconds could fly a Battle-barge through.

I am fine with twins, paternal or identical; they make sense. An engineer who doesn't know that his test-tube has twins in it does not make sense.

It only a plot hole if you don't know the fluff, Sanginus didn't have wings in Emperor's lab, Alpharius's tube only had one embryo, when the chaos gods stolen them all the quirks started happening

Trickstick wrote:female marines argument.

Its not really an argument, its just a few people that don't care about the fluff or don't understand that their is no point in GW releasing female marines in the fact that due to all the chemicals and indoctrinations they would look identical (shaved heads, no femine cheek bones or hips, no breasts). Oh and there are the Sisters of Battle.