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After reading Harker's profile page in then IG codex, I found myself thinking that it was rather strange that Harker, essentially a body builder, should be able to fire a heavy bolter on the move more accurately than an 8ft Space Marine in power armour with considerably more strength, training and skill than himself. Your thoughts please.

Not all rules have to directly result out of a unit's actual capabilities, some could simply be the result of habit or a specific kind of training. For example, Space Marines could be trained to stand still when they fire their heavy weapons, simply because this will render their salvos more accurate - even if this is not reflected on the tabletop due to abstraction. Harker on the other hand simply might not care.

Also, going by GW fluff, Space Marines are 7 feet, not 8, with the gap in strength, training and skill compared to normal humans (which I'm not sure Harker would still qualify as) being somewhat open to interpretation.
Keeping in mind that the age difference does not have to be that big and that, indeed, Devastator squads are (as per the 5E SM Codex) one of the first spots a recently promoted Scout will be assigned to, I could see Harker actually being older and having more experience than many Devastator Marines.

There are hundreds of thousands of Space Marines, but there is only one Sgt Harker.

Rule of cool

I thought Harker had a stripped down human sized heavy bolter.

The guy hunts down Tyranids WITHOUT wearing armor.

His abs are 5+

He deploys on Death Worlds without the benefits of enhanced physiology.

That makes him badass in my book.

The guy could probably teach some space marines a thing or two.

DeffDred wrote:I thought Harker had a stripped down human sized heavy bolter.

Depending on whether or not one believes that cal 1.00 Space Marine Heavy Bolters would be so much heavier and larger than cal 1.00 Guard Heavy Bolters, that would be a factor too, yeah.

GW itself made no such distinction in their Inquisitor RPG, but some licensed products such as a few novels or BI's/FFG's RPG have their own ideas on the subject.

Me, I'm going by a very easy formula for the purposes of guesstimating TT stuff:
S3 means you're going to have trouble with a heavy bolter solo, unless you wear powered armour.
S4 means you can operate a heavy bolter alone. Space Marines and Sgt. Harker are both S4.

Lastly, let's keep in mind that Catachans are just badasses, better than the average Guardsman, and Harker is a badass even amongst the Catachans, which makes him the badass of badasses.

"Us Catachans love our world, boy. Ain't nowhere else I'd choose to be brought up. Catachan's got but one thing for the Emperor - us. Ain't no minerals, can't build a hive world there. But you want some real tough men for your fighting, Catachan's the place to go. You live on Catachan, you're a born survivor. Half the kids die before they learn to walk. Half of those that walk won't see ten years. But you celebrate your tenth birthday, you're gonna be a real man. Everyone works together, see. Can't go into the bush without some real good men to watch out for you. To pick off the deathflies from your back, to chop the head off a big old Catachan Viper when it's snaking towards your arm. We look after each other, we don't backstab no one. We ain't out for ourselves, we're there for each other. And Catachan's independent, don't rely on no one to look after us. Now and then you get some official come into the village, try to tell you what to do. They don't last long. Hell, I shot me three of them myself!"
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1180160_Codex__Catachans.pdf

Because someone was watching Predator when they were creating Harker, and wanted a tabletop recreation of Arnie leveling a forest with a minigun.

Harker: Human with little to no wargear other than his awesome 6pack abs. He is the 40K version of Chuck Norris (okay, maybe Marbo). He has nothing to hinder his movement. Harker looks for the fight. Slips in, brings along some friends. Shoots up the heretics, then, kicks back with a nice brew.

Space Marine w/ heavy bolter: Nameless, big bulky power armor that has to hamper some mobility. And, those small little eye holes must make it hard to aim, even with heads up displays in those helmets. That SM wont go to a fight without his armor.

Because he's got balls?

 martin74 wrote:
Harker: Human with little to no wargear other than his awesome 6pack abs. He is the 40K version of Chuck Norris (okay, maybe Marbo).

Marbo is 40k's Rambo. It's even an anagram for Rambo, his first name, Sly, is Stallones nickname, and his background is, well, Rambo in 40k.

Harker isn't wearing a shirt.
No shirt = badass.

Harker is badass.

Space Marines are not.

/thread

"The deadliest weapon in the universe is a Catachan and his rifle. It is your killer instinct which must be harnessed if you expect to survive in combat. Your rifle is only a tool. It is a hard heart that kills. If your killer instincts are not clean and strong you will hesitate at the moment of truth. You will not kill. You will become dead catachan and then you will be in a world of gak because catachan are not allowed to die without permission. Do you maggots understand?" - Gunnery Sergeant Harker

... or was ist Gunnery Sergeant Hartman?

Genetics, in a galaxy with that may humans your going to get the odd one or two created naturally that can eat a marine for breakfast, plus some monkeys typing Shakespeare but that's besides the point

Nevelon wrote:Rule of cool

Seriously.

This is what a space marine looks like holding onto a heavy bolter:



And here is Harker:



Harker is death incarnate. He cares not for your rules regarding moving and shooting heavy weapons. Seriously, shut up about it. He can break whatever rules he wants.

Meanwhile, the space marine looks like he's standing there shouting "DERP!". Can't figure out which way to point the shooty thing. Better not tax yourself by trying to move and shoot at the same time. Would probably just lead to an accident.

Ricedaddy wrote:Because someone was watching Predator when they were creating Harker, and wanted a tabletop recreation of Arnie leveling a forest with a minigun.

Oh, I've got to take issue with this, though.

Give the 38th governor of the great state of Minnesota his proper credit.

That has to be the most epic governor portrait I've ever seen.

Harker is a badass even amongst the Catachans, which makes him the badass of badasses.

Lol As a badass of badasses he would simply qualify as just another marine appligant and maybe even make it through scout training and implantation.

The rule of cool is why he can move and shoot in the TT.
If marines had "real" rules and point values they would be unplayable but as it is for the sake of balance 18 lousy unarmed grots will kill a space marine in melee.

 Ailaros wrote:

Give the 38th governor of the great state of Minnesota his proper credit.

Have you ever noted that a Human "veteran" has a higher ballistic skill of a fully trained Space Marine Scout?


Besides Harker is just pure badass?

 KhornateCake wrote:
Have you ever noted that a Human "veteran" has a higher ballistic skill of a fully trained Space Marine Scout?

After thinking about it, the difference kind of makes sense. You have a SM scout who is still learning their weapons, could still be adapting to be a couple of feet taller than they're used to (anyone who has gone through a massive growth spurt knows how that can ruin your coordination), and is in basically the reserve corps. Whereas the veterans are proven warriors have used the same weapons for, presumably, years across many battles and worlds. Since BS is more about inherent skill with the weapon and not strength, it works for me.

Plus, they had to take something other than armor save from the scouts to differentiate them from standard marines.

A man, or space marine, has to know his limits. Harker is still working on his.

KhornateCake wrote:Have you ever noted that a Human "veteran" has a higher ballistic skill of a fully trained Space Marine Scout?

Scouts are newbs. Veterans have been fighting for 15-20 years. Marines don't have a monopoly on bad-ass, you know.

Ailaros wrote:
Harker is death incarnate. He cares not for your rules regarding moving and shooting heavy weapons. Seriously, shut up about it. He can break whatever rules he wants.

I would echo this, but with gratuitous swearing throughout.

Because he is a special character. There is literally no other reason.

Buttons wrote:
Because he is a special character. There is literally no other reason.

Despite what marine fan-boys say, very muscly men (I mean the one in a million types) are actually on a par with marines in terms of strength. Harker is such a man.

 Testify wrote:

Buttons wrote:
Because he is a special character. There is literally no other reason.

Despite what marine fan-boys say, very muscly men (I mean the one in a million types) are actually on a par with marines in terms of strength. Harker is such a man.

Yet marines don't have relentless (granted movie marines might). Hence it is because he is a special character.

Based on the words used to describe the relentless rule in the rulebook (was looking something else up), I'd say it's as much (fluff wise at least) a mental attribute than physical. Since Harker is a physical beast as well, it makes sense why he'd have it over an "in-the-box" thinking tactical SM.

Buttons wrote:

Yet marines don't have relentless (granted movie marines might). Hence it is because he is a special character.

Well yes, but my point is it's not arbitrary and stupid. Like, say, a space marine with strength and toughness 6.


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 Ricedaddy wrote:
Based on the words used to describe the relentless rule in the rulebook (was looking something else up), I'd say it's as much (fluff wise at least) a mental attribute than physical. Since Harker is a physical beast as well, it makes sense why he'd have it over an "in-the-box" thinking tactical SM.

To be fair, fluff-wise Marines should probably have relentless, at least for Heavy Bolters. Actually I wonder what it would do to game balance if Marines got a rule giving them relentless with Heavy Bolters. Probably not much.

If Devs got relentless w/HB that would be a must take against hordes, but I agree. I don't think it would skew the game that much.


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Although for the same price you can take 3 HB attack bikes that are fast attack, leaving heavy support for something a bit more dakka (the bikes get T5 and 2 wounds, too).

Ailaros wrote:Give the 38th governor of the great state of Minnesota his proper credit.

No no no, you've got the wrong picture, see:

Pyriel- wrote:If marines had "real" rules and point values they would be unplayable but as it is for the sake of balance 18 lousy unarmed grots will kill a space marine in melee.

"Real" rules written by that segment of the fanbase that also thinks a Marine is 8+ feet high, no doubt.