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HI Dakka,

It has been a while since I played with the orks and I am struggling to counter my friends nids.

He has about everything a nid player has access too. I have enough points to fill 1000pts. My friend tends to use, tyranofex with all his nasty template weapons, a hive tyrant with shell, a tervigon, warriors with a prime, hive guard, and a few units of hormies. He also has carnifexs, mawlocs, zoana's, lictors, doom, basically everything lol.

So I was wondering if you guys and gals have had any luck with beating nids? I have 2 battlewagons, 2 rockit buggies, lootas burnas, boys, warboss, big mekk but am cool with suggestions of further models. I am looking for useful tactics and maybe models to purchase in the future. I struggled with a lack of AP2 weapons so was considering a zzapp battery but do not want to really spend that much on something people have had poor experience with.

Thanks in advance,

ATO

What about a detachment of killa kans?
Also DeffKopters maybe, bikers,
Maybe speed is what you need...

Yer I was thinking of Bikers, not a massive fan of kans. The only reason why I said big guns was for the AP2 but have been reading they are not worth it and I would be better getting kannons. So am i right in thinking that artillery is not T7 rather than AV10?

Thanks in advance

ATO

Are you saying that he fields loads of models or he can make many kinds of lists?

Lootas, dakkajets and killakans should work fairly well against nids.

I am saying he has lots of models lol, for example this weekend he ran a tyranofex, hive tyrant, tervigon, gaunts, warriors and hive guard. I have lootas but i am struggling to get rid of his 2+ monsters. That was the reason for the zapp guns.

ATO

havnt played much orks in 6th, however I would assume the same thing that killed nids in 5th kills them in 6th.

I ran a KFF meck with a (flamer)
2 Battlwagons with Deffrollas

Boys inside, PK,nob,bosspole

Filled out the rest with Lootas

Big bugz need big gunz, you should consider...

Deffkoptas for twin-linked rockets (though you border on a dangerous assault distance)
Kannons from big gunz (make sure to use boyz or whatever to protect them from being assualted cause they are worthless once they are)
Deffgunz from Lootas will do wonders on the warriors if they are still 4+ armor
Grotzookaz these do amazingly well against hormaguants and provide you a wall of armor to protect your kannons
SupahShootaz, amazing profile to screw up buggies and the jet is good enough to dodge nearly all gunshots since nids like aoes. Just make sure to use these guns on the hormaguants and warriors
Burna Boyz, The WOD alone cooks any nid stupid enough to charge them, who needs power weapons when you can just roll 3d15 automatic hits before the charge even starts?
Tankbusta boyz perfect levels of Rokkits, but weak on survival, they are good at all ranges for fighting the godzilla nids it is one of the few armies that they are worth it. shame bomb squigs don't work on them ... : /

a decent close combat choice is sometime tank busta boyz and Burna boyz against nids. The overwatch alone is devastating to any nid even carnies

The Tervigon will always be a problem but they are relatively low impact once they've blown out their ass from nid spawns, the real annoyance is FNP's I'd make this 1st priority if it has that ability when you play.

The Hive Tyrant not supremely annoying IMO, able to be chewed to death by boyz if need be really the pyschic powers of this beasty is the worst part, I would make it one of the last priorities unless CC seems to be coming soon, if it is... change gears and wipe it off the map you don't want perxoisum coming into play.

The warriors and prime are in my honest opinion the weakest part of your enemy's list, they are not strong and a single power klaw auto kills them. Send a warboss on a bike at them and watch the fools get wiped (note warboss on bike + deffkopptas = good show)

Hormaguants are no match for ork shoota boyz, Make sure you charge him and not vice versa. if you don't think you can instead hold up in cover NO NIDS HAVE ANY NADES to even the init score out and init 2 beats init 1... and when orks assault first armies LOSE.

Other than that... just need to have assualt be your last priority as orks don't rush in, Nids beat orks in CC before 6th edition. SO... yeah

Thanks for the lengthy response. The only reason the hive tyrant was annoying was his 2+ save, he still have 4 wounds when he jumped my 20 boys with their nob. The issue was he challenged my nob straight away taking away my save busting nob. The warriors and primes and hive guard where taken out by a few nice boomshots from my looted wagon. I was lucky that the tervigon busted itself on the first spawn but the 16 wounds on three big nasties (12 of which were 2 ups) was a bit of a struggle. Lootas were good first turn but got done with the Rex's crazing cover ignoring flamer thing.

So regarding the kannon teams are the kannons now T7 and have multiple wounds?

ATO

Alltheones wrote:
Thanks for the lengthy response. The only reason the hive tyrant was annoying was his 2+ save, he still have 4 wounds when he jumped my 20 boys with their nob. The issue was he challenged my nob straight away taking away my save busting nob. The warriors and primes and hive guard where taken out by a few nice boomshots from my looted wagon. I was lucky that the tervigon busted itself on the first spawn but the 16 wounds on three big nasties (12 of which were 2 ups) was a bit of a struggle. Lootas were good first turn but got done with the Rex's crazing cover ignoring flamer thing.

So regarding the kannon teams are the kannons now T7 and have multiple wounds?

ATO

yep everyone in the squad has T7, normal saves unless you elect the gun to take a hit which i has 3+ armor.

Also i would advise against 20 boyz in a mob against nids, you need the 30 boyz tarpit.

O nice one so effectively the grots are T7, that is nice indeed. Yer 20 boys would have been fine if the BW hadnt exploded lol. The other group of 20 and nob took down the hive tyrant and almost the tervigon. I am thinking of taking 3 Kannons/Zapp guns, 2 BW with burnas and boys, and some lootas for 1000pts and see how that goes.

ATO

Alltheones wrote:
O nice one so effectively the grots are T7, that is nice indeed. Yer 20 boys would have been fine if the BW hadnt exploded lol. The other group of 20 and nob took down the hive tyrant and almost the tervigon. I am thinking of taking 3 Kannons/Zapp guns, 2 BW with burnas and boys, and some lootas for 1000pts and see how that goes.

ATO

yargh yeah don't take a battle wagon against the bugs either if you can avoid it (though burna wagons are AMAZING against them) mostly cause MC can utter destroy them.

I suggest a list similar to this

1850 Pts - Codex: Orks Roster

HQ: Big Mek (1#, 100 pts)
1 Big Mek, 100 pts (Bosspole; Cybork Body; Kustom Force Field)

Heavy Support: Looted Wagon (1#, 105 pts)
1 Looted Wagon, 105 pts (Boom Gun)

Heavy Support: Big Gunz (9#, 60 pts)
3 Big Gunz, 60 pts
6 Gretchin

Heavy Support: Big Gunz (9#, 60 pts)
3 Big Gunz, 60 pts
6 Gretchin

Troops: Boyz (30#, 210 pts)
30 Boyz, 210 pts (Rokkit Launcha x3)

Troops: Boyz (30#, 210 pts)
30 Boyz, 210 pts (Rokkit Launcha x3)

Elite: Lootas (10#, 150 pts)
10 Lootas, 150 pts


Total Roster Cost: 895

It leaves you enough if you would like to buy and aegis Defense line which will make your more or less impervious to gunfire with 2+ cover saves when going to ground in exchange for snap shots which is... only a degree of reduction still best avoid at long as you can of course. since the tyranofex cuts cover you will want to shoot that down immediately i dare say. remember play defensively and until they are in a 15 inch range then they are dead meat! move in fire everything you have and then charge to boot. Remember that if you aren't feeling brave the nids have barely anything that isn't slowed to init 1 when charging through difficult terrain.

What about some nobs with powerclaws?

Yer I have nobs and a warboss with klaws but still trying to work out how not to be murdered in cc challenges. I feel i need the BW as a threat unit.

Also how do you deal with boroughing mawlocs?

ATO

Alltheones wrote:
Yer I have nobs and a warboss with klaws but still trying to work out how not to be murdered in cc challenges. I feel i need the BW as a threat unit.

Also how do you deal with boroughing mawlocs?

ATO

I deal with Mawlocs the same way i deal with everything in 40k, tarpits and guns before punching the crap outta it. you can't be affraid of the 6 wounds with 3+ armor it's basically only 6 marines with an upgraded toughness.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jcressell wrote:
What about some nobs with powerclaws?

I avoid them unless i know the enemy uses vehicles, mostly because power klaws against nid is something that never normally connects and that is 45 pts better spent elsewhere. great as long as they don't count as characters... it is worth it sometimes to avoid accepting a challenge too

Well the main issue of the mawloc is when it comes out of the ground lol! wipes out big groups of boys.

As for the Power Klaws, I tend to keep them back so I cant accept any challenges but I have just read that not all MC can issues challenges, I think a hive tyrant may be able to but i dont think any other big nasties are? I may be wrong though!

ATO

Tervigons can. As can Trygon Primes.

Alltheones wrote:
Well the main issue of the mawloc is when it comes out of the ground lol! wipes out big groups of boys.

As for the Power Klaws, I tend to keep them back so I cant accept any challenges but I have just read that not all MC can issues challenges, I think a hive tyrant may be able to but i dont think any other big nasties are? I may be wrong though!

ATO

yeah it gets complicated, suffice to say nids our CC orks you need toys to beat em and CC to finish them once weak though i suggest holding up in terrain to reduce their init to lower than ork levels.

Need AP2? A BM with SAG can be pretty awesome, if quite unreliable. It's very good against well armored infantry and MCs as long as you don't roll the dreaded Boom, Oops and Sploosh results.

Against Nids, I'd run Lootas, Boyz w/PK Nobz (remember Nids are really poor at abusing the new challenge mechanic!) and Kannons (insta-gibbing Warriors, Shrikes, Lictors and Raveners is always good), led by a Warboss. Boomguns can also provide unlimited Gaunt and Warrior rape, but watch for Brainleech Devourers and Rupture Cannons. And Don't Press Dat. Ever.

Dakkajets can also be quite effective, particularly on your Waaagh! turn.

Hell you really dont even need a PK on those nobz against Nids. Weight of attacks against MC will bring them down with boyz. Burnas can really come into their own as well, you can burn down an entire unit of smaller bugs with one decently placed shooting phase. When it comes to facing Nids, staying out of CC with the small ones, and getting into CC with the large ones (minus the swarmlord unless hes nearly dead) is pretty much the rule of thumb. But yea, rokkits-rokkits everywhere works awesome against Nids. Rokkit buggies and tankbustas will murder the big guys, as well as cause ID to warriors and the ever scary zoanthropes

Its so hilariously funny that your having this issue; I am having the exact opposite issue and I maybe be able to lend some advice considering I've lost the last four games against orks, albeit at ridiculously tiny point limit games (ork players choice.) Mawlocs have little to no effectiveness if you space out your unit of boyz. they hit maybe four, if he's smart he'll aim for your nob or something that negates the save, but the sheer amount of shots you get after. on top of assaulting, its dead in one turn if you keep 2" coherency.
Trygons are a different story, little tougher same principle except you can forfeit having to space out your orks.
Termies and hormagaunts you just need to make sure your getting the charge.
Hive guard, Zoans and warriors easily get picked off by lootas at their ridiculous range.
Dakkafexes if uninterrupted will wreck utter destruction on your guys if you let them shoot, but otherwise two nobs is one dead 230 pt carnifex.

Just make sure you hit first and you win essentially, most tyranid players are very suseptible to long range fire, lootas are just great at wiping out the starting force enough so that when they deep strike you still can maintain fire priority.

I am very thankful for all the advice so far. I definately think I am going to drop a BW and replace with a bigger group of boys and some big gunz maybe 3 kannons and 3 zapps. I will also take the advice to put some rockits in my boys squads.

So clearing up who can challenge and who cant, so what bugs can issue challenges and which ones cant?

I am also thinking of lootas and burnas obviously

ATO

Hi, Good too see you playing with the Orks, I'd say Lootas and Dakkajets are the best way to solve your problem. The issue with orks is two things: They either don't have enough AP2 weaponry and the weaponry that is AP2 is really unreliable, so the best way to go is with High Volume High Strength shots, and this is where the Lootas and Dakkajets come into play, even with a 2+ save, the bodies will eventually fall with a large volume of wounds And these weapons are also versatile enough to take on the other units in the Tyranid Army. It's also very hard for 'Nids to kill a Dakkajet, being a flyer. I'd suggest having several units of 10 Lootas along with the odd Dakkajet or too, with a Weirdoy (If you have the points) to maximise the Waaagh! Effect of the Dakkajets.



Hope This Helps

Id say, just stick with more kannons if your going that route. Zzaps are not very good. Random strength and the fact that half your shots will hit, for a fairly pricey weapon isnt worth it. Where as kannons atr strong as all get out, AP3, and are the cheapest BigGunz you can get

I personally wouldn't put rokkits in the boys squad, very unreliable option

Yer I think I am going to try some kannons, the rooster writer I have says you can only have 3 of one type pretty sure this is wrong?

I would love a dakka jet but they are a bit pricey tbh.

Rockits in boys mobs may be unreliable but it may be nice to have a few extra AP3 weapons at my disposal. I agree with lootas they are a must high strength and volume means they are the perfect unit, shame i cant put a markerlight in their squad lol

ATO

You've gotten a lot of really great advice so far. I'll add some bits to it.

- Don't bother with Kans or Deff Dreads. Monstrous Creatures just destroy them now and Hive Guard will shoot the hell out of them since your Kustom Force Field won't protect them.
- Give your KFF Meks PowerKlaws. That way when you are challenged, you can refuse, and the Nob can't attack, but the Big Mek will still have a PowerKlaw to attack with!
- Always give your Boyz Shootas against nids. Sluggas just don't cut it as well.
- Nids have lots of things you want S8 and AP3 on, so load up on Rokkits. Buggies with Rokkits, Looted Wagons with Boom Guns, and Rokkits in your Boyz squad if you can afford them (but Big Shootas are arguably just about as good and cheaper). Try to instant-death those Zoanthropes and focus-fire to take down the Tervigons.
- I've had great luck against Nids with squads of Nobz in 6th edition. A couple Power Klaws and a few Big Choppas with a Painboy will wreck just about anything Tyranids can throw at you. Put them in a sacrificial Battlewagon.

I think you need to find space for a weirdboy. almost everything he can do seems useful against nids to me

 frankofranko wrote:
I think you need to find space for a weirdboy. almost everything he can do seems useful against nids to me

How about a Waagh! on turn one, Warpath on turn two, 'eadbanger on turn three and 'ere we go on turn four?

The weirdboy is a really fun model, but shouldn't be fielded if your primary goal is winning the game.

 Jidmah wrote:

 frankofranko wrote:
I think you need to find space for a weirdboy. almost everything he can do seems useful against nids to me

How about a Waagh! on turn one, Warpath on turn two, 'eadbanger on turn three and 'ere we go on turn four?

The weirdboy is a really fun model, but shouldn't be fielded if your primary goal is winning the game.

Upgrading to a warphead can, obviously help, and i'd say in my experience it can definitley be worth it's cost. As long as you avoid 1 and 5, You're alright

Weirdboyz are a great addition to your boyz squads, they are cheaper than the Warboss/Big Meks after upgrades and at times they can pack a bigger punch, by either benefitting your unit/army or even blasting things off the table, Although a weirdboy won't be as great against 'Nids, Because the melta is redundant and it's not too great blasting a few gaunts off with S6 AP3, But the +1A and Waaagh! is essential, it can provide the boyz with what they need to get stuck in and win the combat. So i'd suggest taking one. If you decide you can take a Dakkajet, then the weirdboy's effect is bolstered, as the Waaagh! can now help you get 18 shots off per turn at S6 AP4 per Jet!

I'd definitley suggest upgrading to a warphead to make it more reliable, but I think this guy could do more for you then Definitley a Big Mek and probably a warboss IMO, you sort of need more Bodies against Nids rather than Ork Nobz (As The Tyrant/Bonesword Warriors can really prove an issue).

If you like, I could write a list for you given the stuff you have and make a few tweaks to it.

I'm assuming that anyone fielding a weirdboy will take the warphead upgrade

But really, I've tried to make them work many times (two warpheads + 3 dakka jets), but they usually disappoint you. Even when rerolling everything that's not a Waagh!, you usually get just one additional Waagh! out of them.
The real problem is getting the right power at the right time. When you are about to charge those gaunts, you are just as likely to zzap (which must target the gaunts if you want to assault them), as you are to get the +1A. Whenever you really one one power, there are at least three other powers which will do absolutely nothing for you at the same time.