Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In a game today, my opponent was using a drop pod army. It was fun to play against and we had a good match. There was one thing that happened which I thought was iffy in the rules, but there seems to be no where that states what happens.

Here's the situation:

Drop pod A lands. It opens 3 out of 5 doors and the troops climb out. The other two doors were places to block line of sight from a tank to other units. I proceeded to move the tank to avoid this LoS. My opponent then closed all the doors on the drop pod, bar one on his turn. This again blocked line of sight, but allowed his storm bolter to shoot at a near by unit.

Is this door opening/closing legal? I see nothing that says it's not legal. Most transports don't open/close doors to let troops out. Similarly, he used the same door opening/closing to fit a drop pod in where if the doors were all open, it would have been within 1" of my model, I pointed out that he could easily move it due to the inertial guidance rule, but he wanted it where it was.

So YMDA, what is your take on this? I'm sure it's a TFG strategy, but as I found no rules on it, I let it pass.

TFG strategy. There is no permission to re-position the doors mid-game.

All the doors are popped open when the Drop Pod lands. It even says so in the Drop Pod rules.

You either pop all the doors, or leave all the doors closed (if they are glued). If they are glued, play it as a Line of Sight blocker for both sides, and the Stormbolter inside cannot fire. If they aren't, they all pop open (Barring limitations like Terrain in the way.)

As above. You haev no permission to alter the model during the game, so you cannot do so

Absolute illegal Cheese. As Happy said, no permission.

It's actually why we have a house rule that states the doors are open for LOS reasons.

Crazyterran wrote:
All the doors are popped open when the Drop Pod lands. It even says so in the Drop Pod rules.

This is wrong, but that's for another thread.

You either pop all the doors, or leave all the doors closed (if they are glued). If they are glued, play it as a Line of Sight blocker for both sides, and the Stormbolter inside cannot fire. If they aren't, they all pop open (Barring limitations like Terrain in the way.)

This, however, I completely agree with.

Crazyterran wrote:
All the doors are popped open when the Drop Pod lands. It even says so in the Drop Pod rules.

You either pop all the doors, or leave all the doors closed (if they are glued). If they are glued, play it as a Line of Sight blocker for both sides, and the Stormbolter inside cannot fire. If they aren't, they all pop open (Barring limitations like Terrain in the way.)

Technically it would be valid to have half the doors open, or at least, it's as valid as having all the doors closed.

Still can't change them around mid game though, once it hits the table the doors stay how they are.

Thanks all, that's great to know. I just checked the drop pod rules in the SW codex, and it mentions nothing about the doors. What rules were you referring to?

C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

except "hatches are blown" has no meaning in terms of rules of course.

 Rorschach9 wrote:
C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

Cool - so your drop pods have explosives in them and the doors pop open?
Awesome. Can I get a video?

rigeld2 wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:
C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

Cool - so your drop pods have explosives in them and the doors pop open?
Awesome. Can I get a video?

It does not have to be explosives, It could be pneumatics that Blow the hatches.

Either way we deserve a video of this!

 Griddlelol wrote:
Thanks all, that's great to know. I just checked the drop pod rules in the SW codex, and it mentions nothing about the doors. What rules were you referring to?

He's not, because there are no rules governing what is done with the doors.

I'm going to guess when you tell your opponent he's not permitted to do that, he's going to respond with something like, 'show me where the rules say I can't.' Unfortunately for him, this is a game, and like most games, by its very nature it needs to have a permissive rule set. The rules tell you what you're allowed to, and if the rules don't say you can play monkey buggers with the doors for line of sight advantages, then you can't do that.

Not to mention that the fluff has them blown off, or otherwise forcibly opened upon landing, which makes it very unlikely that they'd have the ability to pop up and down on demand anyways.

I'll huff and I'll puff and I'll blow your HATCHES DOWN !!!

 Bookwrack wrote:
I'm going to guess when you tell your opponent he's not permitted to do that, he's going to respond with something like, 'show me where the rules say I can't.' Unfortunately for him, this is a game, and like most games, by its very nature it needs to have a permissive rule set. The rules tell you what you're allowed to, and if the rules don't say you can play monkey buggers with the doors for line of sight advantages, then you can't do that..

Or just calmly touch your nose and claim you win. When he asks why says because you touched your nose and claimed you won first. If he argues, ask him to show where the rules say you cannot do that.

rigeld2 wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:
C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

Cool - so your drop pods have explosives in them and the doors pop open?
Awesome. Can I get a video?

"hatches are blown" is clearly a euphemism for (forcibly) opened (through some form of mechanism, be it charges/explosives, or mechanical).
I guess that's what happens when game rules writers try to write above a kindergarden level though.

Basically, the doors do not exist from a rules standpoint.

If they are glued, then they will block LoS through the Pod. If they are not glued then what you can see through the pod is what you can see.

You cannot change them mid game to do something.

 Rorschach9 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:
C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

Cool - so your drop pods have explosives in them and the doors pop open?
Awesome. Can I get a video?

"hatches are blown" is clearly a euphemism for (forcibly) opened (through some form of mechanism, be it charges/explosives, or mechanical).
I guess that's what happens when game rules writers try to write above a kindergarden level though.

And how is that not fluff? Or do your drop pods forcibly open through some form of mechanism (charges/explosives or mechanical) when you deploy them?

It's not that I can't read above a kindergarten level (I can - just to alleviate any concern you might have for my well being) its that I can tell the difference between something that's written for flavor and something that has rules support. "Hatches are blown" has no rules support. I'd you continue to disagree, quote the rule.

fluff wise the doors are not even supposed to be hinged. We have a fluff based player and I think he does it best. He did not even put the doors on the pod instead he painted them and when a drop pod comes in he scatters the doors about as random bits of non-game impacting terrain since they are blown off on landing. I think it is a fantastic idea.

 Rorschach9 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:
C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

Cool - so your drop pods have explosives in them and the doors pop open?
Awesome. Can I get a video?

"hatches are blown" is clearly a euphemism for (forcibly) opened (through some form of mechanism, be it charges/explosives, or mechanical).
I guess that's what happens when game rules writers try to write above a kindergarden level though.

It's fluff. Pure and simple sorry.

That said though. Either up or down. No changing mid game

 Grey Templar wrote:
Basically, the doors do not exist from a rules standpoint.

If they are glued, then they will block LoS through the Pod.

Sometimes not even that. Just because I find the footprint with the doors down annoying, I built my pods doors up, but before the game I say to my opponent, 'hey, why don't we treat it like it's doors down? 5+ cover to any shooting that goes through it, the inside weapon can still shoot, but no fiddling with doors hitting terrain or models trying to run over them?'

^^ But the pods look so cool on the tabletop with the doors open, especially if there's some snazzy hazard striping going on!

I think this is an opportunity for you to use his placestyle against him.

DropPods hold ten marines - as per modeled (tens sets of harnesses inside, two per hatch. On in the case of terminators, one per hatch.

If your opponent wants to leave one or more of the doors closed for LOS reasons - just say "sure, I guess the units on the those hatches are trapped due to a drop pod malfunction and will not be enter battle then? - that's too bad".

And likewise, the Stormbolter inside won't be able to fire through those closed doors.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:
C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

Cool - so your drop pods have explosives in them and the doors pop open?
Awesome. Can I get a video?

"hatches are blown" is clearly a euphemism for (forcibly) opened (through some form of mechanism, be it charges/explosives, or mechanical).
I guess that's what happens when game rules writers try to write above a kindergarden level though.

It's fluff. Pure and simple sorry.

That said though. Either up or down. No changing mid game

If it's fluff, then WHY is it located WITHIN the rules for the drop pod and not the fluff portion? It's squarely located in the "Transport" rules section of the drop pod and written (quite obviously) in the manner of rules. Using a quasi-military euphemism may have been a poor choice of wording, but every other bit of that line reads as rules and not fulff combined with it's location in the entry = rules.

 Rorschach9 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:
C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

Cool - so your drop pods have explosives in them and the doors pop open?
Awesome. Can I get a video?

"hatches are blown" is clearly a euphemism for (forcibly) opened (through some form of mechanism, be it charges/explosives, or mechanical).
I guess that's what happens when game rules writers try to write above a kindergarden level though.

It's fluff. Pure and simple sorry.

That said though. Either up or down. No changing mid game

If it's fluff, then WHY is it located WITHIN the rules for the drop pod and not the fluff portion? It's squarely located in the "Transport" rules section of the drop pod and written (quite obviously) in the manner of rules. Using a quasi-military euphemism may have been a poor choice of wording, but every other bit of that line reads as rules and not fulff combined with it's location in the entry = rules.

They can put fluff wherever they feel like.
There's a fluff part about how a razorback is a rhino with a better gun, does that make it a rhino. NO.

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 Rorschach9 wrote:
C: SM, page 69 "Once the Drop Pod has landed, the hatches are blown and
all passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no models can embark on the Drop Pod for the remainder of the game."

And no, this is not in the "fluff" .. it's right after the Stats and right before (In the "Transport" heading of the pod) fire points and access points.

Cool - so your drop pods have explosives in them and the doors pop open?
Awesome. Can I get a video?

"hatches are blown" is clearly a euphemism for (forcibly) opened (through some form of mechanism, be it charges/explosives, or mechanical).
I guess that's what happens when game rules writers try to write above a kindergarden level though.

It's fluff. Pure and simple sorry.

That said though. Either up or down. No changing mid game

If it's fluff, then WHY is it located WITHIN the rules for the drop pod and not the fluff portion? It's squarely located in the "Transport" rules section of the drop pod and written (quite obviously) in the manner of rules. Using a quasi-military euphemism may have been a poor choice of wording, but every other bit of that line reads as rules and not fulff combined with it's location in the entry = rules.

They can put fluff wherever they feel like.
There's a fluff part about how a razorback is a rhino with a better gun, does that make it a rhino. NO.

Yes, but it's not held within the RULES of the model and it's not written clearly as rules .. as is the quote above about the Drop Pods. Try again.
I have yet to find a unit entry with Fluff written within the rules (and vice versa), nor have I yet to find a unit entry with Fluff written using rules terminology ("All passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no mdels can embark on the drop pod for the remainder of the game" .. That sounds like Fluff?? When does fluff use terms such as "remainder of the game" and "models"?)

 Grey Templar wrote:
Basically, the doors do not exist from a rules standpoint.

If they are glued, then they will block LoS through the Pod. If they are not glued then what you can see through the pod is what you can see.

You cannot change them mid game to do something.

This seems like an unfair advantage. Why on earth would you want the doors to open when you can legally use it as an LoS blocker? So my opponent, who moved the doors was wrong, but someone who keeps them glued shut is right? Yes you lose the storm bolter, but that's a minor loss considering you gain an LoS blocking piece of terrain anywhere on the table.

The BA and SW codices say nothing about it. They do however say it counts as being "open topped" which does indicate that the doors should be open. I guess this really just comes down to judgement rather than an actual rule.

Folks on here are arguing "hatches are blown," seriously?!?!

if you guys want to see explosives, then show me an actual unit "firing" or a missile flying through the air to "hit" the enemy.

c'mon guys, this is childish and petty. This is a game, remember.

 Griddlelol wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:
Basically, the doors do not exist from a rules standpoint.

If they are glued, then they will block LoS through the Pod. If they are not glued then what you can see through the pod is what you can see.

You cannot change them mid game to do something.

This seems like an unfair advantage. Why on earth would you want the doors to open when you can legally use it as an LoS blocker? So my opponent, who moved the doors was wrong, but someone who keeps them glued shut is right? Yes you lose the storm bolter, but that's a minor loss considering you gain an LoS blocking piece of terrain anywhere on the table.

The BA and SW codices say nothing about it. They do however say it counts as being "open topped" which does indicate that the doors should be open. I guess this really just comes down to judgement rather than an actual rule.

Are the doors on my Battlewagon open because it's opentopped? No they're not.
you can claim MFA if they don't open the doors as that is clearly going against the design/intent of the vehicle. You can tell by taking a peek to see where it's weapon is located ^^

 Rorschach9 wrote:

Yes, but it's not held within the RULES of the model and it's not written clearly as rules .. as is the quote above about the Drop Pods. Try again.
I have yet to find a unit entry with Fluff written within the rules (and vice versa), nor have I yet to find a unit entry with Fluff written using rules terminology ("All passengers must immediately disembark, as normal. Once passengers have disembarked, no mdels can embark on the drop pod for the remainder of the game" .. That sounds like Fluff?? When does fluff use terms such as "remainder of the game" and "models"?)

Tyranid Pyrovore. "On a 4+ the weapon has ignited the Pyrovore's ..." Do I need to light my Pyrovores on fire now?

Fluff can be mixed with rules. It's actually easy to tell the difference - are there rules explaining the phrase?
There are no rules explaining blowing hatches open.

According to you, if I glue the doors shut its an illegal model because I cannot follow that rule.