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Got a tourney in jan. Wanna use a mono tzeentch list coz a) I love tzeentch in 6th ed and b) its my only fully painted army.

I have 2 lists to offer but want some critique from dakka.

List 1- daemon/ thousand son allies

Herald- disc, bolt, master of sorcery
5 horrors
5 horrors
5 flamers
5 flamers
5 flamers
4 screamers
4 screamers
4 screamers

Sorcerer- termie armour, mastery level 3, mark of tzeentch
6 thousand sons- gift of mutation

Total 1248

List 2- pure daemons

Fateweaver
8 horrors
8 horrors
5 flamers
5 flamers
5 flamers
4 screamers
4 screamers
4 screamers

Total 1250

Other things I have for changes
Lord of change
Tzeentch daemon prince
4 more horrors

Thoughts please dakka

Six thousand models? Where in the warp are you going to get all of them!?

Jokes aside, I'm curious as to how this will work out. I usually see CSM with daemon allies, but rarely the other way around. From what I've seen, daemons tend to be a bit underpowered so the Thousand Sons (and their nifty AP3 bolters) are probably going to be really helpful.

Both are good personally id take more flamers and screamers. Kiaros probably works better with another fmc to take some of the flakk or he'll take all the firepower. So the first list as it has psychic Dave.

Wow another demons flamer spam list , what a surprise

i think the Thousand Son contingency will prove more useful than fateweaver. as you say on his own with no big gribbly mates he will fall quite quickly i think. i have thought of 2 other options though, so i need help deciding between these three lists:

List one

HoT- disc, breath of chaos, master of sorcery
5 horrors
5 horrors
8 flamers
7 flamers
4 screamers
4 screamers
4 screamers
Chaos sorcerer- MoT, mastery level 3, termie armour
6 thousand sons- gift of mutation

1248

OR

List 2

HoT- disc, breath of chaos, master of sorcery
5 horrors
5 horrors
6 flamers
6 flamers
4 screamers
4 screamers
DP- MoT, Wings
Chaos sorcerer- MoT, mastery level 3, termie armour
6 thousand sons- gift of mutation

1244

OR

List 3

Fateweaver
7 Flamers
7 Flamers
5 horrors
5 horrors
4 screamers
4 screamers
Daemon Prince- Wings, Breath of Chaos, Iron Hide, MoT

1250

Acutally quite stuck on what to use now.

Help please Dakka.

 Kasrkin229 wrote:
Wow another demons flamer spam list , what a surprise

To be fair he's only running units of 5. He could have cut some horrors to beef up his flamers. What else is he going to use for his tzeentch list, bloodcrushers?

There should be plenty of threats for units of 5 flamers at 1250. Its not like he brought 54...

While flamer/screamer spam may be cheezy, we can't just hate on people that use those units but don't spam them. What else do you want us daemon players to do? Use beasts of nurgle and furies?

No. , I don't care that its cheesy , 2k points I bring 3 vendettas and 2 Valkyries ( I double FOC). It's just I get a little bored of seeing list that are exactly the same , yes I know demons dosnt have many options , belly acheing on my part but when I say cheese , I bring 5 flyers to a 2k point game ( only like 540 something points if I recall ) and still leaves me with room for vets w/ plasma ( in chimeras ) and demolishers
Just a little bored that's all

xSPYXEx wrote:
From what I've seen, daemons tend to be a bit underpowered so the Thousand Sons (and their nifty AP3 bolters) are probably going to be really helpful.

I think you've got it backwards. In my opinion, the Thousand Sons would be more of a boat anchor than the Daemons.

Let me explain.

Its a pure tzeentch list because its the models I have and its my fav chaos god.

I had this army in 5th ed, not just 6th.

Its not cheesy because i'd be taking 27 flamers if it was.

Apparently its cheesy because its effective in this edition? I think not.

Strange how someone whos had this list of models for 4 years is now a cheesy player because therule change has benefitted my army.

The sons allys provide me with a useful ap3 element and a sorcerer for buffimg or lemding extra firepower.

Good idea or would the fateweaver/prince combo b better?

While I like the thousand sons allies, unfortunately that allied contingent is illegal to field.

The CSM book states "In a PRIMARY DETACHMENT that includes a Sorcerer with the Mark of Tzeentch, Thousand Sons are troops"

So you can't simply field a sorcerer and thousand sons as allies. That's 1 HQ + 1 Elite.

Thats more than annoying about the sons.

In that case what are peoples opinioms/advice on the fateweaver/prince list?

In smaller pt games, FMC are rather hard to deal with. Therefore, I'd go with list 3.

It says that a Tz sorcerer in a Primary detachment makes Tsons troops... Is an Allied detachment the Primary detachment? If not, your Tsons allies are Elites. I have no idea, for sure, that's why I'm asking.

..and also why I use Tsons with Tz Demon allies. : \

drop the CSM - you don't need them, they don't provide you anything that you couldnt get better and chaeper from the deamons. Also, I know 1250 makes points scarce, but I would bump up the numbers of your units. You'll want a unit of troops to sit on an objective and your screamers and flamers only have a 5+ save. They die to mass fire and deepstriking is still hard to predict.

Lord oof Change is worth considering. He can breath of chaos, he can whittle down Ap3 better than the 1ksons and if needed he can SMASH a tank or kill a character. They are fairly resilient in combat if you're careful.

I don't understand all the whining in this thread. It's a tourney list. Flamers and Screamers are overly efficient; thus, you will see them all the time.


As for the OP, if you wanted to make the list better, I'd run:

Sorcerer Level 3
30 Cultists
29 Cultists

Herald of Tzeentch on Disk with Breath
2x 5 Plaguebearers
9 Screamers
3x6 Flamers

1250

The above list gives you the bodies you need to fight off other similar Daemon lists. The level 3 Sorcerer is incredible if you roll invisibility and give it to the Screamers (2+ cover when boosting). Otherwise, I think the Plaguebearers are better troops. Min Horrors rarely did anything for me, even with the Changeling (who you should have btw).

Thanks for the suggestion but i'm going to rum pure tzeentch.

I just thought if I drop the prince from list 3 I can make both horrors unit 10 man squads.

Also am I right in assuming I could bring fateweaver down attached to a unit, say a large flamer unit to grant the rerolls on the inv and reduce th number ds I have to make?

Can't attach FW to units

Ok i've play tested and i've decided on my list. Even beat flingitnow's "fluffy" CSM list that has no CSM's in it, though it does have 3 Helldrakes and 2 DP's

LoC- breath of chaos

5 horrors
5 horrors

5 flamers
5 flamers
5 flamers

4 screamers
4 screamers

DP- Wings, MoT, ironhide, bolt, gaze, breath

1250

Thoughts?

Its a spammy list for sure, how did the trial games with it go?

Play testing went well in the main. as i said Flingitnow's "CSM list" suffered defeat at its hands.

i tried fateweaver but his points are too high for this points level, and bar the 6" bubble a LoC has proved an excellent alternative. I've found that 1 FMC just isn't enough as he draws all the fire and doesn't achieve his aim's, the DP wingman working in tandem is very effective. They both hit on 2's with weapons such as bolt that really help to combat flyer heavy lists, and their flight allows them to get into great positions to expose weaker armour values.

The screamers prove useful turn 1 for turbo boosting over units to get first turn slashing attacks and ballsy deep strikes with flamers provide enough of a problem that the enemy is left with a lot of issues imediately to deal with and if they don't turn 2 brings the pain when flamey death and assaults begin in ernest.

horrors are in the second wave for turning up either out of sight or near some vulnerable that they can cope with on their own. (cultists, i'm looking at you)

How have you found objective games with only 2 small troop choices? I suspect you hit their troops hard with the flamers and elite/heavy choices with the screamers?

Objective games are admittedly harder due to only 2 troops choices, but they tend to get ignored due to the other elements of the army being a higher concern. And at 1250 i rarely see more than 2 troops choice in the opposition armies.

i actually tend to do it the other way around if i'm honest, flamers tend to target elites/heavys as i either ignore armour or glance hull points like theres no tomorrow. plus the elites are usually the combat/harder hitting elements. however the flamers are right in their face so the opponent has two choices, ignore them and they jump and flame you again, or charge them to deal with them at which point i get stand and shoot with them. I've found using flamers this way to be very effective in most cases.

i tend to use screamers for troop killers because they alos ignore armour with AP2 but they get 4 attacks each on the charge, making them much better at it then flamers IMHO.

Ah good points and also good points about the troop choices, does sound like a nice list only weakness I could see is against flyers, but again at 1250 I dont suppose you see many how AV flyers (thinking storm raven here), bolt is good against them but vector strikes are useless.

Thanks, and your right AV12 flyers are rare but would be a problem for the list, as they are for most armies. However if i came up against them, i still have 2 str 8 ap1 bolts with skyfire (if they are swooping) and the LoC can glance on 6's with vector strike. I could even switch Breath of Chaos on the DP for Unholy Might so he's str 6 as well.

of course a also have the option of flat out ignoring them for 2-3 turns, concerntrate on killing ground forces then mop up the flyers afterwards.

Flyers are not gonna win you the game if all your troops are toast.

Helldrakes are av12 and have a 5++ and he killed 2 and took the last down to one hull point. But its the rear armour he was mainly shooting at. So only stormravens will give him a problem until they hover...

Very true. Probably helped me that the black mace weilding DP lost a wound to grounding, charged the LoC, lost 2 wounds to stand and shoot from him, then decided to use his black mace to punch HIMSELF in the face instead of my Mighty chicken.

AV12 all round is rare, but can be dealt with to an extent or ignored for a period of time.

 mixer86 wrote:
I could even switch Breath of Chaos on the DP for Unholy Might so he's str 6 as well.

I don't think that Unholy Might works with Vector Strike. The latest FAQ says that VS does not benefit from weapons or wargear. Daemonic Gifts are wargear.

List 3

Fateweaver
7 Flamers
7 Flamers
5 horrors
5 horrors
4 screamers
4 screamers
Daemon Prince- Wings, Breath of Chaos, Iron Hide, MoT

Lose the Prince, run the horrors as 2 squads of 9, the screamers as two squads of 5 and give each flamer squad a pyrocaster for challenges. Possibly use a regular LoC and with the 43pts to be saved (assuming you're giving him breath and master of sorcery) you could drop the pyrocasters and you have enough for 6 stong units of screamers:

Option 1:

Fateweaver
7 Flamers, Pyrocaster
7 Flamers, Pyrocaster
9 Horrors
9 Horrors
5 Screamers
5 Screamers

Option 2:
LoC, Breath of Chaos, Master of Sorcery
7 Flamers
7 Flamers
9 Horrors
9 Horrors
6 Screamers
6 Screamers

(I like this better IMO

Undertow- Very good point well made. i believe you are right so i'll stick with breath.

Slipintoshadows- as i mentioned i tried fateweaver and i concur he's too expensive at 1250 to be viable. My LoC gets Gifts as standard, breath being the only extra i'll take. we are legion is too pricey and not needed and master of sorcery, not got my book to hand but doesn't that allow him to fire and extra weapon? if so its wasted on him as he only has 3 weapons anyway, which he can fire all of them per turn due to being a FMC.

I think your list is awful to be honest, n another flamer screamer spam, i do 40k daemons and dont have a flamer spam i have one squad of flamers and still do well in games winning some losing some, i dont have any screamers but do want a unit eventually.