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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 18:17:44
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
Aschknas, Sturmkrieg Sektor
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I realize that Communism itself isn't anything bad, but considering that it's consistently failed and resulted in brutal dictatorships, is it really worth continuing?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/12/06 18:52:15
As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 18:39:27
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
Perth/Glasgow
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Who thinks this way exactly??
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Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 18:40:07
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
Aschknas, Sturmkrieg Sektor
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People who are still Communists?
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As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 18:42:48
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Has anyone on Dakka ever said that living in the year 40k would be a good thing?
With whom are your debating?
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 18:43:36
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Junior Officer with Laspistol
Perth/Glasgow
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So communist countries I assume?
Where many people don't have many rights or a say in what happens in their countries but is maintained by the people who are running it?
This just seems like a troll thread
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Currently debating whether to study for my exams or paint some Deathwing |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 18:55:12
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought
Wollongong, Australia
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Communism is yet to happen, thise "Communist" countries are socialist countries who have been corrupted back to capitalism over time.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 18:57:44
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Aspirant Tech-Adept
Aschknas, Sturmkrieg Sektor
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kronk wrote:Has anyone on Dakka ever said that living in the year 40k would be a good thing?
With whom are your debating?
I removed part of it because I thought it was too confusing. I remember someone here was saying that Communism is still a good idea in one of the Sturmkrieg discussions. I'd have to say that living in the Sturmkrieg Sector wouldn't be desirable. Automatically Appended Next Post: rockerbikie wrote:Communism is yet to happen, thise "Communist" countries are socialist countries who have been corrupted back to capitalism over time.
But if Communism has constantly failed, is it really a good idea to keep trying it?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 18:58:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:01:20
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Seems to work fine in Israel.
/Trollthreadjack
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Avatar 720 wrote:You see, to Auston, everyone is a Death Star; there's only one way you can take it and that's through a small gap at the back.
Come check out my Blood Angels,Crimson Fists, and coming soon Eldar
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/391013.page
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Powder Burns wrote:what they need to make is a fullsize leatherman, like 14" long folded, with a bone saw, notches for bowstring, signaling flare, electrical hand crank generator, bolt cutters.. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:02:56
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought
Wollongong, Australia
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Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote: kronk wrote:Has anyone on Dakka ever said that living in the year 40k would be a good thing?
With whom are your debating?
I removed part of it because I thought it was too confusing. I remember someone here was saying that Communism is still a good idea in one of the Sturmkrieg discussions. I'd have to say that living in the Sturmkrieg Sector wouldn't be desirable.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rockerbikie wrote:Communism is yet to happen, thise "Communist" countries are socialist countries who have been corrupted back to capitalism over time.
But if Communism has constantly failed, is it really a good idea to keep trying it?
It has only occured in 3rd world countries with low literacy rates and a devastated economy. Also, Vietnam would of been a success if the US did not intervene.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:04:25
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps
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Yes, we are 100% sure of that.
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Prestor Jon wrote:Because children don't have any legal rights until they're adults. A minor is the responsiblity of the parent and has no legal rights except through his/her legal guardian or parent. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:05:45
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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If at first you don't succeed, try, try again.
Eventually communism will work. We just need to keep trying.
Whose with me, boys? Boys? Put down those Wii controllers and Playboy magazines and join me already!
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DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:09:05
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Old Sourpuss
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I can't put down the playboy... it is covering up my "covert" operations  I'm studying the American way of life so that I may infiltrate as a communist sleeper cell... On paper, Communism is not a bad thing like 40k... Awesome setting, cool idea, and yet fethed up once it gets into the hands of the people...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 19:13:42
DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:21:47
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Communism works just as well on paper as Capitalism.
Communism works just as well in real life as Capitalism.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:37:08
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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OP could always read Merleau-Ponty's Adventures of the Dialectic if he really wanted to understand the failings of Marxist communism...
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[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:39:55
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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d-usa wrote:Communism works just as well on paper as Capitalism.
Communism works just as well in real life as Capitalism.
I would argue that Capitalisim works much better then Communisim, because it doesn't make any false assumptions about the nature of mankind. It actually assumes everybody is a selfish prick and goes from there. Meaning nobody should ever be surprised.
Free Market capitalisim works, Communisim doesn't.
Now this doesn't mean a completely free market is a good thing for everybody concerned, it can lead to an oppressive situation, such as price fixing and abuse.
However the System itself doesn't mind. Ergo: it "works".
Communisim on the other hand assumes people are good and simply become corrupted over time. So you just need to have a strong government take over, get rid of all the bad people, and then the government will dissolve and the system will run itself.
The problem is that the Government will never dissolve, because the people running it will simply use the system to collect power for themselves and set up a dictatorship. Using a nice warm ideological ideal as the excuse for why they must do what they do.
Of course the real deal here is that Communisim is a Political ideal, that involves the economy. Capitalisim is an Economic ideal that really couldn't care less what the political system is.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 19:40:24
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:47:44
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Executing Exarch
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rockerbikie wrote:It has only occured in 3rd world countries with low literacy rates and a devastated economy.
So you are implying that only societies that have an educated populace and/or fantastic economies will work with Communism? I find this to be extremely illogical. Considering that a fundamental idea in Marx's Communist Manifesto is that society is to be re-educated so as to eliminate class systems and facilitate a "transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society." It makes more sense that a generally uneducated society will be easier to re-educate since their preconceived notions are likely to be less deeply ingrained, and those who have a ruined economy are more likely to be willing to try a radical new solution. Could it be that is exactly why Communism has been tried in those situations?
rockerbikie wrote:Also, Vietnam would of been a success if the US did not intervene.
Really? Sorry to burst your bubble but Ho Chi Minh was not the saint you make him out to be, despite what the People's Party publications in Vietnam tell you...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 19:56:15
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:51:19
Subject: Re:I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)
Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!
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A pure capitalist system or pure communisit system would never work in the real world.
In the real world, what works best is a balance between capitalism and socialism.
The balance is what we're constantly tweaking/changing.
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Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:55:25
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought
Wollongong, Australia
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JEB_Stuart wrote:rockerbikie wrote:It has only occured in 3rd world countries with low literacy rates and a devastated economy.
So you are implying that only societies that have an educated populace and/or fantastic economies will work with Communism? I find this to be extremely illogical. Considering that a fundamental idea in Marx's Communist Manifesto is that society is to be re-educated so as to eliminate class systems and facilitate a "transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society." It makes more sense that a generally uneducated society will be easier to re-educate since their preconceived notions are likely to be less deeply ingrained, and those who have a ruined economy are more likely to be willing to try a radical new solution. Could it be that is exactly why Communism has been tried in exactly those situations?
rockerbikie wrote:Also, Vietnam would of been a success if the US did not intervene.
Really? Sorry to burst your bubble but Ho Chi Minh was not the saint you make him out to be, despite what the People's Party publications in Vietnam tell you...
No. That's why it failed. If Norway became Communist, it would be successful. If everyone is educated than it is more likely to succeed. Ho Chi Minh freed his people from the French.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 19:57:14
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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rockerbikie wrote:
No. That's why it failed. If Norway became Communist, it would be successful.
You will forgive the massive amount of skepticisim I have about that.
Communisim has a 100% failure rate so far. I doubt Norway would be the first success.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 19:57:42
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:00:42
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Rampaging Khorne Dreadnought
Wollongong, Australia
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Grey Templar wrote: rockerbikie wrote:
No. That's why it failed. If Norway became Communist, it would be successful.
You will forgive the massive amount of skepticisim I have about that.
Communisim has a 100% failure rate so far. I doubt Norway would be the first success.
That argument was probably made about democracy in the 17th and 18th century.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:01:13
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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JEB_Stuart wrote:rockerbikie wrote:It has only occured in 3rd world countries with low literacy rates and a devastated economy.
So you are implying that only societies that have an educated populace and/or fantastic economies will work with Communism? I find this to be extremely illogical. Considering that a fundamental idea in Marx's Communist Manifesto is that society is to be re-educated so as to eliminate class systems and facilitate a "transition to the abolition of all classes and to a classless society." It makes more sense that a generally uneducated society will be easier to re-educate
Marx ended up endorsing the idea of a violent revolution as the only mean to End history (of class conflict). The communist society is principally defined by the fact that people freely associate and are free to pursue their own aims, something which isn't likely to happen in 3rd world countries.
Marx also beleived that to happen, 1) commerce would have to be done internationnaly, and 2) the alienation of proletariat would have to come to a critical point.
The Bolchevik Revolution wasn't the Communist Revolution.
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[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:02:35
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
Edinburgh, Scotland
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Communism ultimately fails because in order for it to work there has to be absolute power.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:03:35
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Lethal Lhamean
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The problem with Communism is that it requires a large government to keep so much under control, and so much power is bound to become corrupted in human hands. Until we can develop a computer that can reliably handle such important things with a 0% failure rate and have everyone trust it, I don't see communism happening. I just hope I live to see the day that it does.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:04:32
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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rockerbikie wrote: Grey Templar wrote: rockerbikie wrote:
No. That's why it failed. If Norway became Communist, it would be successful.
You will forgive the massive amount of skepticisim I have about that.
Communisim has a 100% failure rate so far. I doubt Norway would be the first success.
That argument was probably made about democracy in the 17th and 18th century.
Actually Democracy had a pretty good track record. The Greeks did pretty well with it, they were just conquored by non-democratic enemies.
It wasn't used on a large scale because there wasn't a practical way to practice it. Pure Democracy as the Greeks practiced it only works at the scale they practiced it, the city state level.
The US was actually the first country to try it on a national scale, and its worked so far. But of course we did have to modify the Greek version of pure democracy so it would be possable to use it on a national scale.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:06:40
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Lethal Lhamean
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Roman democracy largely failed, and it had a biased system anyway. Plus, since even Churchill stated that democracy's a bad system, you simply can't say it's perfect without being delusional. Communism, if it works, is.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/12/06 20:06:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:11:30
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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p_gray99 wrote:Roman democrasy largely failed, and it had a biased system anyway. Plus, since even Churchill stated that democracy's a bad system, you simply can't say it's perfect without being delusional. Communism, if it works, is.
The Romans did not have a Democracy. They had a Republic.
It was largely based on money and how well you were in favor with the sitting members of the Senate. The Senate was basically a semi-fluid group of nobles that made the laws.
The only check and balance the system had, as well as input, was how well the publics opinion of you was. If they liked you, you would do well because the other Senators wouldn't dare oppose you. For fear of Riots against them.
It was how loud the public screamed at you and if they were nice screams or screams of hatred.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:11:32
Subject: Re:I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Douglas Bader
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Communism is a failure. It only killed 30 million people, which is just shameful. Any decent political and economic system would have been able to kill at least 60 million people, if not more. Now capitalism, that has potential. Where communism encourages you to be lazy and accept your government benefits, capitalism and ruthless pursuit of profit encourages conflict and the development of bigger and better weapons. We must remove oppressive government regulation of capitalism and allow corporate rule and the inevitable bloody eternal war! Industrialized killing! Profitable nuclear weapons!
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! DOLLARS FOR THE DOLLAR THRONE!
(Given the OP, not much chance of constructive discussion here.)
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:12:16
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Zealous Sin-Eater
Montreal
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Grey Templar wrote:
Actually Democracy had a pretty good track record. The Greeks did pretty well with it, they were just conquored by non-democratic enemies.
Democracy didn't mean the same thing back then. The Freedom of an Ancient would seem like slavery to us.
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[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:12:55
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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Executing Exarch
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rockerbikie wrote:No. That's why it failed. If Norway became Communist, it would be successful. If everyone is educated than it is more likely to succeed.
Why? I have provided reasons why it makes more sense for it to work in an uneducated or economically depressed nation, but you are just re-asserting your viewpoint with no reasoning. An educated populace means it has a nearly infinite number of viewpoints, and thus makes it hard to agree with a single point of view. An uneducated society can be much more easily guided to support a single notion simply because they don't have a firm, well-reasoned ground for their ideas.
rockerbikie wrote:Ho Chi Minh freed his people from the French.
Helping to free his people from an attempt by the French to re-establish imperialist rule is definitively NOT the same as successfully implementing Communism, nor does it make him a saint. Surely, you can see the basic reality in that.
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DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2012/12/06 20:16:00
Subject: I accidentally 30 million people. Is this a dangrous political system?
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The Conquerer
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
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Kovnik Obama wrote: Grey Templar wrote:
Actually Democracy had a pretty good track record. The Greeks did pretty well with it, they were just conquored by non-democratic enemies.
Democracy didn't mean the same thing back then. The Freedom of an Ancient would seem like slavery to us.
Yeah so?
That was kinda the point.
Democracy as we practice it today, as invented by the founding fathers of the US, has a pretty good track record.
Communisim, or at least those pretending to be Communists, didn't last but a handful of decades.
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Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
MURICA!!! IN SPESS!!! |
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