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I got into 40k in 2000, prices I thought back then were fine. Got out of it for a few years and came back into it in 2005, the price increase was quite noticeable, but nothing compared to now . I remember picking up an all pewter Greater Deamon of Nurgle for 40, land raider crusader for 50, dreadnoughts for 30, 10 marines for 20 or 25. The mass increase in prices from GW has priced me out, I am currently getting my BT army ready to sell.

My fiancee is starting to get interested in it and wants to play Fantasy, not 40k. The only reason we are giving it a go is because I am playing dwarf and she is playing HE and we are getting most of our models from Mantic and only getting the special units from GW. Even then we are still not sure if we want to shell out the money for Finecast considering how much mixed reviews there are on the quality.

Personally I think GW has forgotten that it takes normal people with jobs that can afford their stuff, is what makes them money.

Ch40s wrote:
...
My fiancee is starting to get interested in it and wants to play Fantasy, not 40k. The only reason we are giving it a go is because I am playing dwarf and she is playing HE and we are getting most of our models from Mantic and only getting the special units from GW. Even then we are still not sure if we want to shell out the money for Finecast considering how much mixed reviews there are on the quality...

As long as you're proxying, I would just go with Reaper for special units. They have much better models for much cheaper, and plenty of options for elves and dwarves.

 Boggy Man wrote:

Ch40s wrote:
...
My fiancee is starting to get interested in it and wants to play Fantasy, not 40k. The only reason we are giving it a go is because I am playing dwarf and she is playing HE and we are getting most of our models from Mantic and only getting the special units from GW. Even then we are still not sure if we want to shell out the money for Finecast considering how much mixed reviews there are on the quality...

As long as you're proxying, I would just go with Reaper for special units. They have much better models for much cheaper, and plenty of options for elves and dwarves.

Especially if you can wait a few months and pick from the big Bones release after the KS ship out. So very much cheaper...

Will look into Reaper thanks! I have seen the named mentioned before on the boards here, but I forgot to look at them.

Cheers

 Sean_OBrien wrote:

 Boggy Man wrote:

Ch40s wrote:
...
My fiancee is starting to get interested in it and wants to play Fantasy, not 40k. The only reason we are giving it a go is because I am playing dwarf and she is playing HE and we are getting most of our models from Mantic and only getting the special units from GW. Even then we are still not sure if we want to shell out the money for Finecast considering how much mixed reviews there are on the quality...

As long as you're proxying, I would just go with Reaper for special units. They have much better models for much cheaper, and plenty of options for elves and dwarves.

Especially if you can wait a few months and pick from the big Bones release after the KS ship out. So very much cheaper...

Another place to look for Dwarf special units is Avatars of War. Soon they'll have their full range out, and they already have a plastic Slayer regiment.

I havent been fully priced out, however I have been selling off my collection of models. No need to keep on pursuing a mulititude of armies when only one will do. I also am trying my best to refrain from any more purchases of GW stuff.

I am reinvesting the money in other systems. GW has no monopoly on any of us. We can quite when we like. There are plenty of other systems out there.

 Howard A Treesong wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
And as I've noted over and over, hardcovers only cost a few cents extra to produce over a softcover.

Including the indentations? And the colour printing?

The cost difference really isn't much by opting for hardback, but the price increase means the profit margin is much greater with hardbacks. That's why many novels are published in hardback first and paperback later. It's widely accepted by the public that hardbacks cost significantly more, but the margin is fairly small for the publishers. Various things like cardboard inserts into magazines and fancy effects on the covers like foul, spot uv and embossing also add a little but not enough to warrant the increase any publisher puts on hardback over paperback. GW has the advantage that all their codexes are sold direct from the publisher meaning they get a greater cut. Most books are sold through a distributor, wholesaler, retailer, meaning that they get a small fraction of the cover price. GW get it all.

I know the increase in price is greater than the increase in production, and frankly £30 is too much. Unless my wages went up I doubt I would pay for a new codex, even my own army's.

But I don't think you can sum it up by just saying it costs "a few cents more" and dismissing the, imo, positive changes to the new codexes, although all they've done is thrown on a hardback cover and jacked up the price.

What positive changes? They're heavier, take more space, and are more difficult to carry in a conventional case. This was purely a money grab.

Anyone who still thinks the prices aren't that bad, take a look at the new chaos release.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod1870060a
$70au for a box of 10 plastic models.
/thread

 Fafnir wrote:
What positive changes? They're heavier, take more space, and are more difficult to carry in a conventional case. This was purely a money grab.

The indented hardback cover just feels right. And the full colour pictures throughout just breathe life to the whole thing, I think it's great.

Having said that, I do think that it's great as a collector's edition. The fact that GW don't offer a smaller cheaper mini-codex at a lower price is what stinks of profiteering, not pretending that the codex is not as nice as the majority of people seem to think so, simply because you think it's overpriced.

 jonolikespie wrote:
Anyone who still thinks the prices aren't that bad, take a look at the new chaos release.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod1870060a
$70au for a box of 10 plastic models.
/thread

How about the singles? They are plastics too...and $25 USD (and strangely $25 AUD...I am sure they will fix that soon enough) for one figure...

That works out to over $3 per bit. Granted Throgg is a single "Finecast" figure for $58 ($96 AUD) - but of course he is on a 40mm base.

 BryllCream wrote:

 Fafnir wrote:
What positive changes? They're heavier, take more space, and are more difficult to carry in a conventional case. This was purely a money grab.

The indented hardback cover just feels right. And the full colour pictures throughout just breathe life to the whole thing, I think it's great.

Having said that, I do think that it's great as a collector's edition. The fact that GW don't offer a smaller cheaper mini-codex at a lower price is what stinks of profiteering, not pretending that the codex is not as nice as the majority of people seem to think so, simply because you think it's overpriced.

Heh Collectors edition. Value is a perspective. Only a certain small percentage of people will believe this hardcover book will be something worth of value. And only a certain percentage will purchase something like this as a collectors item.

The rest will purchase this as a need for their army, have enough money to burn to have all of the codexes for research (like myself) or not at all. I did not pick up the chaos codex yet because of cost and I sure am not going to pick up this codex as well.

Slaughterbrute. $85.00 WTF?

I had to double-check to see if I weren't on the Aussie site by accident.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
Only a certain small percentage of people will believe this hardcover book will be something worth of value. And only a certain percentage will purchase something like this as a collectors item.

Citation needed. What makes you think only a small percentage of people will view their codex as "worth of value[sic]"?

 Breotan wrote:
Slaughterbrute. $85.00 WTF?

I had to double-check to see if I weren't on the Aussie site by accident.

Doesn't help any that it's sort of an awful model, imo.

That's what's really pricing me out of the game - their increasingly lousy sculpts combined with their relentlessly awful finecast casting quality. FFS, check out the Chaos Lord - they couldn't even be bothered to straighten his bent halberd.

LOL @ bent halberd.

I hope GW continues with this aggressive pricing. $5 a model for a unit for WFB in plastic is even more funny than gold swords. But the empire great swords will probably be brought up to the same price level in June's price adjustment.

I'm actually starting to find GW's prices funny rather than sad.

 BryllCream wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
Only a certain small percentage of people will believe this hardcover book will be something worth of value. And only a certain percentage will purchase something like this as a collectors item.

Citation needed. What makes you think only a small percentage of people will view their codex as "worth of value[sic]"?

Citation needed is my reply to your comment. What makes you think I am wrong. Why don't you get the data and show us that I am wrong.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:

 BryllCream wrote:

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
Only a certain small percentage of people will believe this hardcover book will be something worth of value. And only a certain percentage will purchase something like this as a collectors item.

Citation needed. What makes you think only a small percentage of people will view their codex as "worth of value[sic]"?

Citation needed is my reply to your comment. What makes you think I am wrong. Why don't you get the data and show us that I am wrong.

Because you've made the claim, you should be basing that on data. I don't make a claim unless I've got some facts to back it up.

Hmmm.... Price People out of the hobby?...

That all depends....

Do you consider GW to be the hobby?

I do not. So, using myself as an example they are not going to price me out of the hobby, though they might price themselves out of the hobby as far as they are concerned.

That... they pretty much have.

I still buy GW terrain (which surprised the heck out of me - the terrain is reasonably priced, or was last time I bought some).

I may buy a plastic unit - for use in RPGs, not Warhammer. (Last sets were one unit of Empire bowmen and one of hand gunners.) My homebrew Pathfinder settings are 1630s and 1750s. (I am an outlier in regards to settings - one is focused around an analog for the Thirty Years War, the other based on the French & Indian War.)

For wargaming? I buy and play Mantic's Kings of War. And for Kindoms of Men I use a force that is 90% GW, but is also a decade old.

The character models are from Reaper, Avatars of War, and (if they ever get here) some miniatures from Raging Heroes that I am supposedly getting as a Christmas present....

Mostly Reaper.

My dwarf army is almost entirely Mantic, with Avatars of War for Berserkers and Reaper for Characters.

And I have enough dwarfs that I can field them as two 1,500 point Kings of War armies, and did so just the other day.

If I ever get them painted then I will field an orc army - again, almost entirely Mantic, with some Reaper characters.

I like the Kings of War rules better than any edition of Warhammer since third. I started playing Warhammer in first edition. The silliness and ambiguity is kept to a minimum in Kings of War.

All told, I spent about $90 on GW last year. Two units, one piece of terrain.

I spent several times on Reaper and Mantic - each. I think that I spent around $500 on Mantic, though that includes the Kickstarter.

I spent a like amount on Reaper, but again... Kickstarter.

I think that GW has reached the point where they are hurting themselves with their pricing, but I do not think that people are being priced out, nor do I think that they have crippled themselves... yet.

The Auld Grump

They've finally hit that point for me.

I've played since RT, and was looking to start a small DA force to try out.

I got the 50.00 codex as a birthday present, or i would have balked at the cost.

Just pricing out a smallish force landed near 1000.00

$75.00 flyers and LR's?

Give me a break.

I have a ton of models. Maybe my money will go to (non-GW) scenery instead. If GW deigned to make non IOM scenery it might get more of my money, but it doesn't.

I'll still play my current armies, but no new army for me.

 Adam LongWalker wrote:


Citation needed is my reply to your comment. What makes you think I am wrong. Why don't you get the data and show us that I am wrong.

Lol the burden of proof is on you, Adam.

I was ok with the DA releases. Deathwing Termies are $10 than normal Termies, but in my opinion the kit is better since it makes more stuff (makes 1 of 2 units) and comes with more stuff (DW have more options than normal Termies.) So I can justify the $10 hike.

Some of the new Chaos stuff, though, leaves me wondering. I don't know how big the Slaughterbeast thing is, so I'm willing to pass judgement on that.

But the Forsaken seem really outta whack. $10 more than other elite infantry of the same size (Temple Guard, Black Orcs, Bestigors...)

Throgg is an Ogre sized special character who costs $70 Canadian, yet the actual Finecast Ogre special characters cost $50...

I personally feel that while GW is extravagantly expensive, I still prefer their games to Infinity and Warmachine. I really like the look of having Ogres and Treemen fighting against ranks of German spear men and ranked-up Elven archers. Equally, fighting in the future with Elves firing guns at hordes of overgrown insects is also fun. Finally, I love the Lord of the Rings, and so fighting in Middle Earth is really fun to me as well.

What I also like about the games is that they're fun. I'm not a tournament player. The rules are not totally streamlined and the codices aren't balanced at all. But if I have a good time, what's wrong with that? I like Infinity and Warmachine a lot, but the two games feel a lot more serious.

The prices are still extravagant though.

Codexes from 2nd edition onwards are nearly worthless. The new hardbacks only have value as long as they are the current rules, once replaced they will have very little value to gamers or collectors. The only older codexes that are worth more than pennies are a couple of uncommon 2nd edition ones and RT books, which aren't codexes but the nearest equivalent, Slaved to Darkness, etc.

I've no 'data' to back that up, that's just my experience of years digging through boxes of books at wargames events and looking at eBay, and seeing old codexes pushed in with tatty White Dwarfs priced at 50p

They should reprint a collectors edition of Rogue Trader and the Chaos books, a bit like WOTC did with first edition D&D. That would fly off the shelves. But there's zero chance of that happening.

TheAuldGrump wrote:
Hmmm.... Price People out of the hobby?...

That all depends....

Do you consider GW to be the hobby?

No, but GW does and that's what we're discussing here.

I just finished putting together my Guild Riflemen for Malifaux and am loving the move to that game. I just wish I could get to some games in my area. Weekends are still dominated by GW but I've found I'm spending less and less on them and more on stuff from other companies. I'm working on getting the new Dark Angels stuff via bits and trades where possible and other than the magic cards for WoC, won't even think about any of the new stuff coming out for them. Man, I still can't believe I saw an $85.00 price tag on that thing. I think it's cool, yes, but not $85.00 cool.

Zoned wrote:
I was ok with the DA releases. Deathwing Termies are $10 than normal Termies, but in my opinion the kit is better since it makes more stuff (makes 1 of 2 units) and comes with more stuff (DW have more options than normal Termies.) So I can justify the $10 hike.

Deathwing kit, $60
This kit contains 102 components, a Space Marines Transfer Sheet, five 40mm round bases, and one 25mm round base with which to make a Deathwing Command Squad, Deathwing Knights or five Deathwing Terminators.

Space Wolf Terminator kit, $50
This box set contains five multi-part plastic Space Wolves Wolf Guard Terminators. This 100-piece set...

I don't know how many components the other Termie kits have, they aren't listed.

Overall, recent releases are insane prices. The new knights of Rivendell are a big price jump over any other LOTR cavalry or Fantasy cavalry.

Woohoo! 20% price hike for 2 more pieces on the sprue compared to the Space Wolf terminators. But don't worry, the Space Wolf Terminators will be brought up to $60 soon enough. June likely.

For Chaos Marauders I got 50 greatax orc troops from Mantic, got some dwarf heads, kneadite (thats greenstuff, except before GW packs it up and x4 the price) and some 2h hammers I made.

Total cost to me for 50 models? about $65. Comment from a tournament I attended? "Wow those look really cool, like they were dwarves but now they have mutated"

Cost to buy official at local retail? $AUS 220, although to be fair that would make 64.

So $1.30 vs $4.40 a model.

Like I said in the GW thread - they no longer run tournies, they no longer have room in the stores for games, what are they going to do? Throw a bad look my way?

The WOC prices are insane. I'm normally not phased by their prices, but I'm pretty shocked, with the WOC.

I really hope they don't price the new Daemon releases into oblivion like this.

I think they are pretty much hitting their limit there. 75$ Flyers are pretty bad, but 85 for a Trygon size kit, is just bananas.

 sennacherib wrote:
I havent been fully priced out, however I have been selling off my collection of models. No need to keep on pursuing a mulititude of armies when only one will do. I also am trying my best to refrain from any more purchases of GW stuff.

I am reinvesting the money in other systems. GW has no monopoly on any of us. We can quite when we like. There are plenty of other systems out there.

I've been doing similar, and is one of the only reasons I'm grateful for GW's pricing; I've been going to events and trying not to spend much more than I make from selling stuff I'll never use, and some of my GW stuff (mostly 40K and chaos dwarfs) have gone for decent prices, allowing me to get into other systems for minimal outlay

 BryllCream wrote:

Having said that, I do think that it's great as a collector's edition. The fact that GW don't offer a smaller cheaper mini-codex at a lower price is what stinks of profiteering, not pretending that the codex is not as nice as the majority of people seem to think so, simply because you think it's overpriced.

I've never been convinced limited edition rules or codexes make any sense; they become pretty much worthless after the next version drops, and unless the version you have becomes a retro favorite in a few years you'll never get anything near what you paid back from it. For instance if there were limited edition RT or Space Hulk stuff. Limited edition 5th/6th Edition codex or BRB? Nah.

You also don't seem to get anything special with it, just a different cover and page edging, so there's no real value add. At least the LE starter sets come with a unique figure that'll outlive the ruleset.

 Vaktathi wrote:
At these prices, GW's mainstream product line has, without question, clearly crossed into Forgeworld pricing levels.

Exactly and FW prices have crossed into some next pricing level