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I've been looking through the rulebook to find an answer, but I must be missing it.

My question is, can two friendly units be in base to base with each other? If so, can a squad of Deathwing Terminators benefit from the +1T from Fortress of shields if they are touching 2 or more Deathwing Knights, allowing me to add to the toughness of two separate squads?

Yes, two friendly units can be in base-to-base with each other.

Whether members of Deathwing Knight Squad A can help members of Deathwing Knight Squad B depends entirely on the wording.

Yes, two units can be in base contact with each other, as long as they are friendly or have performed an assault move.

No, they cannot benefit as they do not have the rule.

But why can't they benefit? The rule itself says, 'Any model with the Inner Circle special rule that is in base contact with two or more models with this special rule has +1 Toughness.' - so, since terminators have Inner Circle, and if it was touching two knights, wouldn't it get +1 toughness?

Why didn¨t you just start by including the wording of the rule?

Why didn¨t you just start by including the wording of the rule?

Sorry, I didn't think it through.

So, it sounds like you could stack your other terms up against your knights in a double line and benefit. Interesting.

Interesting. You can form a shield wall with the DWKs and have the regular DW with ranged weapons shoot over them and all benifit from +1T.

Do Captains and other characters have the Inner Circle rule? It may have been to allow them to benifit while joined.

Even with the added toughness, I don't know that it is a good idea...

I don't have my codex on with me, but I think black knights have inner circle, if they do t6 bikes with up to a 2+ cover save!

Do Captains and other characters have the Inner Circle rule? It may have been to allow them to benifit while joined.

Every HQ but normal Chaps, Techmarines, PA Command Squads, and RW command Squads have Inner Circle.

I don't have the full codex but i am pretty sure it says if they have the "Fortress of shields" not inner circle. at least this is what the reference section says... I am sure that is what is intended though it doesn't matter, However there are already some changes in the IOS version so i might be worth it to get that checked.

The unit entry definitely says Inner Circle. As with any other book, if the summary says differently I'll ignore it in favour of the main text.
As for intention, it's easy to argue that it's designed to help protect attached characters in a bodyguard role.

Black Knights DON'T have Inner Circle, even though the fluff would match. This would make them Fearless and as a result, unable to use Hit and Run, which is part of their appeal.

Hit and run is a Initiative test... why can a fearless unit not hit and run? Though you are right that they do not have inner circle.

I would say you have to check the digital codex to be sure, there have been many mistakes in the units section where the fluff is with the army section where the points are being correct. example is the Darkshroud does NOT have stealth and something else that i forget.

It makes sense both ways other then the character would/wouldn't benefit from it,

However in the most important situations like a challenge, or when there is only 2 models om the unit (including the indi character) so the majority unit T is not 5. The only situations is matters is for instant death from S8+ where the lookout sir has failed and where then are 3 models remaining so they would still benefit.

 jegsar wrote:
Hit and run is a Initiative test... why can a fearless unit not hit and run? Though you are right that they do not have inner circle.

Because they "fall back"

and?
Reread fearless, all it says is that they auto pass pinning dear regroup and morale checks but cannon go to ground and cannot choose to fail a morale check due to the our weapons are useless rule...

Edit: sorry i reread Hit and Run, maybe in 5th but in 6th they don't fall back... they just make a "Hit & Run move" that move can also be in any direction including through the enemy models that they are in combat with. So fearless has NOTHING to do with hit and run meaning that if a inner circle or fearless character joins the unit then they can still hit and run. Yes hit and run confers it's ability to characters that join the unit.

Without my rulebook to hand I'll have to stand corrected, then. Hmm. In that case, I wonder why they don't have it?

I don't remember the fluff off the top of my head, are the raven wing members of the inner circle? I thought it was just the death wing and a few of the high leaders. isn't the inner circle the group that know about the true secrets of the fallen?

Having said that it, everything really useful from inner circle just gives preferred enemy (chaos) and fearless so throw a interrogator chaplain on a bike or sammy in there and you'll share both abilities with the squad.

That is also the reason i think the Shields reference section is correct and the entry is incorrect.

Sure, why not.

By having all your terminators lined up like that, you are just asking for pie plates and Plasma Cannons, so is it really worth it?

This becomes more important in assaults...

I recently ran a DW heavy army, getting them into assault with some creative charging made it poss to get them a majority lined up.

Crazyterran wrote:
Sure, why not.

By having all your terminators lined up like that, you are just asking for pie plates and Plasma Cannons, so is it really worth it?

Situationally, yes it will absolutely be worth it. Just like many other aspects of the game you need to evaluate the threats to the unit and make a decision on whether or not to clump up. There are going to be times when it is a big advantage, and I don't think it will be that rare of an occurance. It's certainly something every Deathwing Knight player should keep in mind.

DW Knights always carry storm shields anyway, so pie plates and plasmas are still not enough of a threat to make it not worth doing.

Yes, apologies - I had read the rule incorrectly, thinking it related to the shieldwall rule directly. You can line them up and have normal inner-circle models gain +1T

pie plates still force a LOT of saves and T4 or T5 is the same to a S7 Plasma cannon, or S10 demolisher.(I assume your character is towards to back) but can someone please quote the rule for this thread. I have the reference section where it clearly states "Fortress of Shields" and not Inner Circle.

Considering there are at least 17 other typos in the book, though only 1 (about the land raider) in the reference section i am a bit skeptical that someone without the special rule can benefit from it.

Yeah, but it does make them much more durable against small arms and force you to use high str AP2 pieplates to deal with them. Which can lead to less casualities overall.

That is why i said pie plates and am still arguing that it is correct in the reference section.

Except the unit entry is usually taken as correct, in case of a conflict.

Fortress of shields pg 45 dark angel codex- Any model with the inner circle special rule that is in base contact with two or more models with this special rule has +1 toughness. I believe this rule was meant for IC when joining the squads but and model such as deathwing command squad could benefit from this rule and makes the banner of fortitude so much better as only s10 weapons and insta-death weapons would stop the feel no pain.

Alright so if you have an Inner Circle model in contact with two models with Fortress of Shields it will get +1 T. That is more reasonable then the way i thought it would be worded where if you had 3 inner circle modes in b2b and 1 of them had Fortress of Shields then they would all benefit. While there is still crazy stuff you can do with this it is harder.

Right the inner circle model has to be touching the base of two with the fortress of shields rule to even get +1 toughness.

I can see this best being used for example when an IC with inner joins the squaad and stick to two of them like glue.