Poll |
 |
|
 |
Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 19:51:46
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Torch-Wielding Lunatic
|
Amaya wrote:Where is this belief that Battle Sisters are on par with Space Marines coming from?
If we compare them with Dark Angels Space marines, they are almost equals... If we compare them with Dark Angels Space marines, they are almost equals... in point cost!
For the arguments about the actual numbers of Sisters in the IoM... if each planet is able to produce only ONE sister per year (and I find that stat kinda low IMO), there should be millions of them, no?
Edit: I mean, I find it hard to believe that there is more psykers (counting the thousands dying each day for the golden throne) than there is potential people that can become SoB.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/21 19:57:27
1750pts
1100pts |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 19:53:46
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
|
Void__Dragon wrote:Frankly I disagree, individually, no soldier in the Imperium should be equal to a Space Marine on average (Disregarding exceptions like Straken or Yarrick). That is the entire point of the Space Marines, individually, they are the mightiest soldiers of the Imperium.
Also, how many battle sisters are there? I've never seen the numbers.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Lynata wrote:Eh, they definitively still have that "martyr" theme going on ( tbh it never really changed) - but at least they're still portrayed as an elite force capable of taking on daemons and Marines, and do sport the occasional "win" in studio fluff (in spite of how often that tends to be forgotten even by the more cynical SoB fans).
I can recall no recent codex fluff where the Sisters weren't massacred, to be honest. But then, I did just sort of glance through the WD update, so hey.
Wait? so the muscle lumps in armor don't die but the chicks in similar armor get slaughtered?
|
{url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/675142.page]{img]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/11/8/429237_md-.jpg{/img]{/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 19:57:49
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Void__Dragon wrote:Wow that's it?
That's fething puny. Those numbers should be bulked up, IMHO.
Nah, it's more than enough for the role they are intended to fill, and how uncommon their participation is. See the force disposition charts of Armageddon or the 13th Black Crusade.
I mean, we could argue that one million Space Marines is puny and that those numbers should be bulked up as well. Those forces are intended to be rare.
Amaya wrote:Strong evidence for Sisters being on par with Space Marines. Oh em gee guys, they both wear power armor, they must be equal!
You should know me better...
"As the Chamber Militant of the galaxy-spanning Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are fierce warriors that are equals to their brother Space Marines. What the Sisters lack in genetic enhancement they make up for in faith and devotion."
- GW website
"The Sisters of Battle are exceptionally well equipped, with armour and weapons the equal of any Space Marine Chapter."
- 3E C:WH
I'm still waiting on you to expand on your claim that I would "manipulate people's content to fit my preconceived notions", by the way. Looks to me like you are the one doing that.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 19:58:57
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Courageous Space Marine Captain
|
I like to think that largest of the minor orders are about thousand strong, and there are actually quite a lot of these orders. This makes number of Sisters to be more reasonable.
As for Marines vs. Sisters, whereas individual Marine might be more powerful, the Sisters can still challenge them. They're the best non-marine troops the Imperium has, and thus they're used purging rogue Marine Chapters.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:04:00
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
Your entire claim hinges upon a throw away quote from GW...
The idea that anyone is more devoted to the Emperor than Space Marines is a bit laughable.
|
Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:06:57
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
|
Lynata wrote:
"As the Chamber Militant of the galaxy-spanning Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are fierce warriors that are equals to their brother Space Marines. What the Sisters lack in genetic enhancement they make up for in faith and devotion."
- GW website
So average BT ( and every fanatical chapter) has all that + even more....so how are they equal?
|
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:08:09
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Crimson wrote:
As for Marines vs. Sisters, whereas individual Marine might be more powerful, the Sisters can still challenge them. They're the best non-marine troops the Imperium has, and thus they're used purging rogue Marine Chapters.
I simply don't see it that way seeing as Astartes have their own fleets and such. IIRC, FW had that Badab thing where when they wanted to crush an SM's chapter, they brought in other SM's. Not SOB's.
|
Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:08:59
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Amaya wrote:Your entire claim hinges upon a throw away quote from GW...
The way I see it, that's still better than anything my opposition had to say so far.
Amaya wrote:The idea that anyone is more devoted to the Emperor than Space Marines is a bit laughable.
Yeah, especially considering how few Space Marines switched sides so far.
On a sidenote, your failure to respond to my request regarding your offensive claim might make you look like you were lying. Just saying.
DarthMarko wrote:So average BT ( and every fanatical chapter) has all that + even more....so how are they equal?
Can your average BT pull off Acts of Faith?
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/21 20:09:47
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:09:23
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
DarthMarko wrote: Lynata wrote:
"As the Chamber Militant of the galaxy-spanning Ecclesiarchy, the Sisters of Battle are fierce warriors that are equals to their brother Space Marines. What the Sisters lack in genetic enhancement they make up for in faith and devotion."
- GW website
So average BT ( and every fanatical chapter) has all that + even more....so how are they equal?
Cause GW and some holy codex says so, of course.
|
Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:10:28
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
Because they have power armor (that they don't interface with) and bolters obviously.
The very existence of Sisters is misogynistic. They were obviously created as female Space Marines, but instead of being capable Space Marines on their own they rely on the Emperor's blessing to guide them through battle.
|
Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:11:59
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Amaya wrote:The very existence of Sisters is misogynistic. They were obviously created as female Space Marines, but instead of being capable Space Marines on their own they rely on the Emperor's blessing to guide them through battle.
Acts of Faith are not in any way powered by the Emperor but a result of the Sisters' training and dedication.
Perhaps you should read a bit more about the faction you're bashing.
[edit] At least as per GW. FFG actually does have them use Emperor Space Magic.
Does that make FFG misogynistic?
/philosoraptor
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/21 20:12:54
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:13:03
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
How am I bashing this faction? Again, there you go taking things out of context.
|
Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:15:34
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Amaya wrote:How am I bashing this faction? Again, there you go taking things out of context.
Do I, really? You sit there badmouthing the Sisters' combat capabilities, yet apparently you are not even aware of what level of wargear they use or that AoF are a result of their training. And when I throw in the relevant quotes from GW you dismiss them as "throwaway". What's your agenda, if not that?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:16:19
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Courageous Space Marine Captain
|
Imperial Navy will need to transport the Sisters, that is true. But that hardly matters.
IIRC, FW had that Badab thing where when they wanted to crush an SM's chapter, they brought in other SM's. Not SOB's.
Because FW wanted to make a Marine book, not a Sisters book.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:18:53
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Crimson wrote:Imperial Navy will need to transport the Sisters, that is true. But that hardly matters.
If it's a Minor Order. The Major Orders run their own fleets.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:19:02
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
|
Lynata wrote:Amaya wrote:How am I bashing this faction? Again, there you go taking things out of context.
Do I, really? You sit there badmouthing the Sisters' combat capabilities, yet apparently you are not even aware of what level of wargear they use or that AoF are a result of their training. And when I throw in the relevant quotes from GW you dismiss them as "throwaway". What's your agenda, if not that?
I am entirely aware of their wargear and Acts of Faith. They were my first army after all.
But because I disagree with your assessment that they are equal to Space Marines, I am "bashing" them.
That's really cute.
|
Read my story at:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/515293.page#5420356
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:19:21
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Courageous Space Marine Captain
|
Actually, I'd claim that they kinda can. They have their vows or whatever they're called. I see this to be basically the same thing what the Sisters have, psychological buff brought by insane dedication.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:19:25
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
i don't see what the controversy over SOB's having faith powers are. All its shows is that their faith is very, very strong. So strong that it taps into the human psyker effect similar to Orks or its the God Emperor himself favoring them, who knows *shrug*
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Crimson wrote:
Imperial Navy will need to transport the Sisters, that is true. But that hardly matters.
now you're bringing othe branches into this. Purely speaking, SOB's against marines on their own can't win due to having no support. Also, the last time I heard the SOb's try something against SM's(the wolves) they lost IIRC.
Because FW wanted to make a Marine book, not a Sisters book.
So what? It still shows that the Inquisition or Imperium in general relies on SM's to crush SM's.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/21 20:22:52
Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:23:12
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought
|
Space marines are. Nine feet tall, have fingers like turkey legs, feet like fething frankenstein, two hearts, can spit acid, and have solid fused rib cages.
Cato sicarius cracked on and decapitated some eldar bird, after she had cut his primary heart in half, and all he did was take a knee afterwards and pant a bit. :-D
I love the sisters, but trying to say they are as nails as marines is silly.
They are nails because they AINT as nails as space marines. An unaugmented human in a bit of armor stubbornly facing terrifying horror is particularly awesome.
In the same way that a fearless God of war that straddles the battlefield like a mighty colossus (Matty) can never be as brave as a coward that grits his teeth and commits an act of true valor, so are the sisters totally bad ass.
It takes their entire appeal away to say they are as strong as the inhuman freaks that are genetically more awesome in every way.
|
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:25:13
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
|
That's an assumption, Lynata. The only Ecclesiarchy ship we've ever seen is the Hammer of Thor.
Back when Sisters were first introduced, their "space magic" consisted of a fixed bonus set at the start of the game which ranged from being immune to Fear and Terror to Firing twice in the same shooting phase. Or the very low chance (if you're led by a Sister Superior and have an allied Psyker) of nothing at all.
Wow. Such magnificent space magic they were forced to rely on.
Also, they had basically the same stat line as Marines, except instead of assault marines, they got Seraphim, who were better.
|

"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:26:17
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Amaya wrote:I am entirely aware of their wargear and Acts of Faith. They were my first army after all.
But because I disagree with your assessment that they are equal to Space Marines, I am "bashing" them.
That's really cute.
This isn't "my assessment" - this is something taken directly from the GW website. Careful with that manipulation.
Pray tell, why are you dismissing these quotes if you really are "neutral" to the issue? I can understand and respect people simply having different personal preferences, and given how the fluff works in this franchise it is entirely okay to just disregard something from GW that you don't agree with. I just don't see why anyone would do that unless they do not want Sisters to be equal to Marines.
Crimson wrote:Actually, I'd claim that they kinda can. They have their vows or whatever they're called. I see this to be basically the same thing what the Sisters have, psychological buff brought by insane dedication.
Hmm, good point. I'd still say that this isn't some sort of standard amongst the Astartes, like it is for Battle Sisters. Also, what effect do these vows take, exactly? I'd wager it does not make Black Templars notably more powerful than other Marines - whereas on the other hand, the absence of Acts of Faith would severely impact the Sisters' combat prowess, both on the table as well as in fluff.
Furyou Miko wrote:That's an assumption, Lynata. The only Ecclesiarchy ship we've ever seen is the Hammer of Thor.
Nope, that's actual GW fluff from the Rogue Trader rulebook and the 2E Codex Imperialis.
mattyrm wrote:Space marines are. Nine feet tall, have fingers like turkey legs, feet like fething frankenstein, two hearts, can spit acid, and have solid fused rib cages. [...] In the same way that a fearless God of war that straddles the battlefield like a mighty colossus (Matty) can never be as brave as a coward that grits his teeth and commits an act of true valor, so are the sisters totally bad ass. It takes their entire appeal away to say they are as strong as the inhuman freaks that are genetically more awesome in every way.
I think we've got a bit of a misunderstanding here. I don't doubt that the Marines are physically much stronger than any Sister. However, most of what separates the Space Marines from normal people does not necessarily make them better fighters, simply because it's so extremely situational. Using the same guns still means that a Sister will kill a Marine just as easily as a Marine will shoot another Marine.
Also, in GW's world, Marines are still 7 feet.
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/21 20:31:34
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:27:56
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
Croatia
|
^ Faith? Nah, give me another set of eyes,  please
It always puzzeled me, how did the acts of faith worked before empy's rise to the heavens? Seriosly @Lyn indulge me...
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/21 20:31:49
ADB: I showed the Wolves revealing the key weakness at the heart of the World Eaters; showing Angron that his Legion was broken and worthless compared to the others; that he was the one primarch who couldn't trust his own warriors, and that they didn't care if he lived or died; showing that loyalty to brothers and sons is the heart of success for the Legiones Astartes, to the point even Lorgar makes a big deal out of saying the World Eaters and their primarch were massively outclassed by Russ, and Angron was too stupid to see the lesson Russ had sacrificed time, sweat, and blood, to teach. We're talking about a battle the Wolves won, by isolating the enemy general through pack tactics, and threatening to kill him, without a hope of defending himself. It was a balance, 50/50 - Angron overpowered Russ, and the Wolves were losing ground to the World Eaters; but Russ and his warriors had Angron by the balls, and barely broke a sweat. They won, no question. Lorgar even says: "The Wolves won, meathead."
Dorn won’t help you either. He’s too busy being the Emperor’s groundskeeper, hiding behind the palace walls. The Wolf is too busy cutting off heads as our father’s executioner, while the Lion holds on to his secrets, and has no special fondness for you. Who else will come? Not Ferrus, certainly. Nor Corax either. Even as we speak, I suspect he flees for Deliverance. Sanguinius?’ Curze laughed cruelly. ‘The angel is more cursed than I. The Khan? He does not wish to be found. So who is left? No one, Vulkan. None of them will come. You are simply not that important. You are alone.’ Konrad Curze to Vulkan
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:34:00
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
|
Thanks, Marko, that was really helpful.
For reference, the original rules that later became Acts of Faith;
At the start of the battle, roll 1d6 for every character leading a squad, with the following modifiers:
Psyker in the army: -1
Squad led by Missionary Major Hero or Sister Superior +1
Squad led by a Veteran Sister Superior +2
Squad led by a Canoness +3
1: No Effect
2: Squad is immune to Fear and Terror for the duration of the battle.
3: Squad is subject to Frenzy.
4: Squad gains +1 Leadership for the duration of the battle (Max Ld10)
5: The squad Hates the enemy.
6: Each member of the squad has a psychic save of 4+ on a d6. Note that this is not a nullify - roll for each model: On a 4+ it is unaffected. Some of the squad may be affected while others aren't.
7: The squad automatically passes all psychology and Break tests it is required to make.
8: The squad is so determined to smite their enemies that it pays no heed to its own safety. The squad may ignore the Choosing a Target rules and fire at any enemy squad or vehicles you wish. The squad cannot pick out enemy characters unless they are more than 2" from a squad and the closest target, as detailed in the Heroic Characters section of the Warhammer 40,000 Rulebook.
9: Once in the battle, at the end of the shooting phase, the squad may fire again. Weapons that are jammed or recharging may not be fired and will stay jammed or recharging until the next shooting phase as normal.
Note that if the character leaves the squad during the battle, the effects of any rolls on the Sacred Rites tables are lost.
Yep, some super-awesome Emperor Given Space Magic there. Just a whole lot of positive psychology bonuses.
|

"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:38:15
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hurr! Ogryn Bone 'Ead!
|
mattyrm wrote:Space marines are. Nine feet tall, have fingers like turkey legs, feet like fething frankenstein, two hearts, can spit acid, and have solid fused rib cages.
Cato sicarius cracked on and decapitated some eldar bird, after she had cut his primary heart in half, and all he did was take a knee afterwards and pant a bit. :-D
I love the sisters, but trying to say they are as nails as marines is silly.
They are nails because they AINT as nails as space marines. An unaugmented human in a bit of armor stubbornly facing terrifying horror is particularly awesome.
In the same way that a fearless God of war that straddles the battlefield like a mighty colossus (Matty) can never be as brave as a coward that grits his teeth and commits an act of true valor, so are the sisters totally bad ass.
It takes their entire appeal away to say they are as strong as the inhuman freaks that are genetically more awesome in every way.
That's true - being weaker than a space marine is not very uncommon. But having the balls to take on the same gak as the SM? Very common.
|
{url=http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/675142.page]{img]http://images.dakkadakka.com/gallery/2012/11/8/429237_md-.jpg{/img]{/url] |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:38:46
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
DarthMarko wrote:It always puzzeled me, how did the acts of faith worked before empy's rise to the heavens? Seriosly @Lyn indulge me...
I don't think I get it.
Or is that just poking fun at the whole faith thingy? I'd be quite happy to explain Acts of Faith should you actually be interested in that, but I have a feeling you wanted to make a joke.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:41:29
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
I will simply post this:
Dark Heresy rpg Daemon Hunters pg 22 wrote:That path led to the very centre of Camp 109, where they found the first host waiting for them atop a mountain of bloated, fly-ridden corpses. The host, the very first of the wounded Imperial Guardsmen to have beseeched the Lord of Plague for aid, had become a Daemon Prince of Nurgle, granted apotheosis for the destruction wrought in his master’s name.
Lystug ordered his servants to attack, but his words went
unheeded as the Sisters Hospitaller stepped forward as one and formed a circle around the vile daemon. Chanting praises to the saints of their healing order, the Adepta Sororitas crippled the servant of Nurgle, purging its bloated, decaying body of contagion so that only a dried, shrivelled husk remained.
Yet still, the power of Nurgle animated the Daemon Prince’s
form. It slew the many of the sisters and attempted to flee.
Dark Heresy rpg Daemon Hunters pg 22 wrote:Only through the purity of the
Sisters Hospitaller and the valor of the Inquisition was 47
Kapella saved from a world-ravaging plague.
So yeah.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/21 20:52:19
Stated by Grey Templar:The Ward of the Codices
"It began, with the writing of the Great Codices,
2 were given to the Eldar. Immortal, Capricious, and most farsighted of all,
2 also to Chaos. Traitorous, Deceitful, Servants of the Dark Gods,
3 to the Xenos races. T'au, Orks, and Necrons. the Young, the Beast, and the Spiteful,
7 to the race of men. Servents of the God Emperor, the Inheritors of the Galaxy.
But they were all of them, decieved. for another Codex was written…
In the Land of Ward'or, in the Fires of Mount Doom, the Dark Lord Matthew wrote in secret, a Master Codex, to rule all the others. One by one, all the armies of the other Codices fell to the power of the Codex, and from this Darkness, none could see hope.
But there were some, who resisted. a Last Alliance of Men and Xenos took up arms against the forces of Ward'or and on the Slopes of Mount Doom they fought for the freedom of 40k." |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:43:10
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Courageous Space Marine Captain
|
Lynata wrote:Hmm, good point. I'd still say that this isn't some sort of standard amongst the Astartes, like it is for Battle Sisters. Also, what effect do these vows take, exactly? I'd wager it does not make Black Templars notably more powerful than other Marines - whereas on the other hand, the absence of Acts of Faith would severely impact the Sisters' combat prowess, both on the table as well as in fluff.
Regardless the strength, the effect is similar. However, I agree that the Marines can never have exactly the kind of faith the Sisters have; the Marines know that Emperor was a mere man, Sisters know he is a god.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:43:43
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
|
That's cute, Reznov, but where did it come from?
Didn't anyone ever teach you proper referencing? Page number, book, author, publication date please.
|

"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:44:15
Subject: Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
Seattle
|
mattyrm wrote:Space marines are. Nine feet tall, have fingers like turkey legs, feet like fething frankenstein, two hearts, can spit acid, and have solid fused rib cages.
Cato sicarius cracked on and decapitated some eldar bird, after she had cut his primary heart in half, and all he did was take a knee afterwards and pant a bit. :-D
I love the sisters, but trying to say they are as nails as marines is silly.
They are nails because they AINT as nails as space marines. An unaugmented human in a bit of armor stubbornly facing terrifying horror is particularly awesome.
In the same way that a fearless God of war that straddles the battlefield like a mighty colossus (Matty) can never be as brave as a coward that grits his teeth and commits an act of true valor, so are the sisters totally bad ass.
It takes their entire appeal away to say they are as strong as the inhuman freaks that are genetically more awesome in every way.
Seven to seven and a half feet. Nine feet tall is a BL/ FFG/Fan fabrication.
No one is saying that the SoB are as strong as the SM (in the physical sense). What the SOB is, though, is a battlefield equivalent of the Space Marines. If you took, say, a standard battle-deployment of both, dropped them on a planet somewhere and said "OK, kill each other", you have a 50/50 chance of choosing which of the two is going to still be standing by the end of the war. It's not a cut-and-dried "oh, this faction will always kill this faction" sort of situation.
|
It is best to be a pessimist. You are usually right and, when you're wrong, you're pleasantly surprised. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/21 20:47:09
Subject: Re:Misogyny and the lack of normal women in 40K.
|
 |
Hallowed Canoness
Ireland
|
Crimson wrote:Regardless the strength, the effect is similar. However, I agree that the Marines can never have exactly the kind of faith the Sisters have; the Marines know that Emperor was a mere man, Sisters know he is a god.
In the end, I'd presume that the Sisters' AoF push them closer to the Marines than a Templar's vows pushes him above, I guess.
Furyou Miko wrote:That's cute, Reznov, but where did it come from?
Didn't anyone ever teach you proper referencing? Page number, book, author, publication date please.
I'm betting it's Dark Heresy, or perhaps rather Only War as it sounds like a military thing. FFG has embraced the Sisters = Space Magic idea, contrary to the original GW fluff.
Also, +1 to Psienesis, expressed it better than I could.
|
|
 |
 |
|