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 Manchu wrote:
Do you actually believe that misogyny played no role in creating that game or is this just academic -- some kind of reductio ad absurdum argument that no one can know the true motives of the game's creators except (and maybe not even) them?

No. My argument is that they're statement clearly directs their distaste for Saarkesian at their belief she is a scammer. Not that she's woman. Not that she's a woman who talked about women in video games. To conflate that to misogyny and to claim that pointing out why the game was made (in the words of its maker) is somehow encouraging the behavior is to engage in a dishonest argument.

My position was clearly stated. I've also clearly stated several times that I'm sure woman haters played a roll in all this drama. I just don't think it's viable to claim all of it comes from misogyny. Unfortunately anyone who doesn't like her for any reason other than her being a woman, now gets accused of encouraging the hate of women.

Sorry, I don't see a particular reason to tolerate blatant hate speech.

 LordofHats wrote:
No. My argument is that they're statement clearly directs [...]

Their method of delivery makes a very clear statement.

There is no conflating. The misogyny is clearly shown, loudly and proudly shouted for all to see.

That you ignore it does not make you correct.

 Amaya wrote:
Sorry, I don't see a particular reason to tolerate blatant hate speech.

It becomes relevant because people constantly claim the hate comes from her being a woman. So it kind of ends up being an issue. Those people, then deny any possibility to refute that position by claiming that to oppose it is to encourage the behavior. It's not that difficult a thing to understand.

 LordofHats wrote:
It becomes relevant because people constantly claim the hate comes from her being a woman.

When the overwhelming majority of the insults and hate is gender-specific, it is very apparent that her being a woman is why they hate her. They attack her as a woman, for being a woman. And this has been going on for decades. You just so happened to notice now because it finally made the news.

Your ignoring the content of the insults does not make you correct.

 Melissia wrote:
When the overwhelming majority of the insults and hate is gender-specific, it is very apparent that her being a woman is why they hate her.

Your ignoring the content of the insults does not make you correct.

I get called various male genital related insults all the time. Do you think I've been insulted because I'm a man or that the insults simply takes its form as a result of my being a man?

I was about to say at least it wasn't a rape based game and then I had an idea...so I went and googled Anita Sarkeesian Rule 34 and got this gem from the third hit courtesty of /v/:

We NEED Rule 34 on Anita Sarkeesian.

NSFW link


Apparently someone has also gone along and already created such images...wonderful...

Why do you think it has to be one or the other? I'm sure there is room for these disparate facts to float around in the heads of those hurling the abuse, blending together to form some kind of especially disgusting soup.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Amaya wrote:
Sorry, I don't see a particular reason to tolerate blatant hate speech.

It becomes relevant because people constantly claim the hate comes from her being a woman. So it kind of ends up being an issue. Those people, then deny any possibility to refute that position by claiming that to oppose it is to encourage the behavior. It's not that difficult a thing to understand.

Sorry, but when every other insult towards her involves ejaculating on her face or brutal rape it is obvious that either the hate comes from her being a woman, the insults are gender specific, or men like raping everything they don't like.

I'll admit, the third option is a distinct possibility.

 LordofHats wrote:
Do you think I've been insulted because I'm a man

It's a distinct possibility that you have. But that's nothing more than a lame distraction from the issue.

Calling a woman a [c-bomb] is inherently misogynistic. So is saying "I will rape you so you can shut up" or so many other sexual epithets, rape threats, and intimidation attempts. The very ACT of doing many of the things that have been done towards Sarkesian-- and feminist activists as a general whole, not that you have actually read any of the articles I linked to you or paid a single goddamned bit of attention to anything I've said-- indicates a level of hatred for women and a desire to victimize women in order to silence them. To silence us, I should say, since I've been on the receiving end of the exact same thing innumerable times, including on this very forum.

Deny it all you want, you're just lying to yourself in doing so.

 Melissia wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Do you think I've been insulted because I'm a man

It's a distinct possibility that you have. But that's nothing more than a lame distraction from the issue.

Calling a woman a [c-bomb] is inherently misogynistic.

Oh, but that's one of my favourite swear words and I use it on anyone who angers me regardless of gender.

Would you use a certain n-word to refer to as a black person and then get surprised that you get called a racist?

Yeah. Misc has ingrained calling people right cheeky runts into my inner psyche.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Would you use a certain n-word to refer to as a black person and then get surprised that you get called a racist?

Are we ending it with a or with er?

 Amaya wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Would you use a certain n-word to refer to as a black person and then get surprised that you get called a racist?

Are we ending it with a or with er?

The latter. I don't know what you mean by the former....

Heeh... it's kind of sad, but I just thought to myself "I live in the American South, I should know more racial insults than I do."

 Melissia wrote:
Would you use a certain n-word to refer to as a black person and then get surprised that you get called a racist?

I've never used the word [see forum posting rules] as an insult but sometimes use it in a joke, neutral or historical context and I never thought of witch being like the [see forum posting rules] equivalent for women to me it was just a gender neutral insult that I love saying.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Would you use a certain n-word to refer to as a black person and then get surprised that you get called a racist?

I've never used the word [see forum posting rules] as an insult but sometimes use it in a joke, neutral or historical context and I never thought of witch being like the [see forum posting rules] equivalent for women to me it was just a gender neutral insult that I love saying.

You would say that you insensitive cheeky witch.

Having a good laugh are we?

Yes, I do believe it as such. That's how it's been used by hate groups, and by misogynistic men throughout recent history.

It is the insult that the Men's Rights Movement has co-opted as its calling card. Frequently, not a single post goes by in MRM discussions in less moderated place without said bomb being dropped... and the target being a woman, often with a synonym for "stupid" before it, because these people do not believe that women are intelligent enough to deserve to be able to control our own lives.

In regards to the vulgarised word of Spanish ancestry. I've used the "A" it accidently a couple of times around men of a darker persuasion and luckily I was familiar enough with them that they didn't take offense to it and kill me. I have seen whites, hispanics, and blacks use it freely in mixed groups. It is a situational word. I've been called it a few times, as in "my <censored>" for example.


I would never call a woman a runt simply because it is always intended to be somewhat offensive especially when used as dumb runt.

 Amaya wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Would you use a certain n-word to refer to as a black person and then get surprised that you get called a racist?

I've never used the word [see forum posting rules] as an insult but sometimes use it in a joke, neutral or historical context and I never thought of witch being like the [see forum posting rules] equivalent for women to me it was just a gender neutral insult that I love saying.

You would say that you insensitive cheeky witch.

Having a good laugh are we?

Just so were clear by neutral context I don't mean I call black people [see forum posting rules] I mean that if someone asked what [see forum posting rules] meant I would tell them what it means.

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Amaya wrote:

 Cheesecat wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Would you use a certain n-word to refer to as a black person and then get surprised that you get called a racist?

I've never used the word [see forum posting rules] as an insult but sometimes use it in a joke, neutral or historical context and I never thought of witch being like the [see forum posting rules] equivalent for women to me it was just a gender neutral insult that I love saying.

You would say that you insensitive cheeky witch.

Having a good laugh are we?

Just so were clear by neutral context I don't mean I call black people [see forum posting rules] I mean that if someone asked what [see forum posting rules] meant I would tell them what it means.

I was joking mate. Calm down.

You racist gakker you. Having a giggle, eh?

OK fair enough.

 Melissia wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Do you think I've been insulted because I'm a man

It's a distinct possibility that you have. But that's nothing more than a lame distraction from the issue.

Calling a woman a [c-bomb] is inherently misogynistic. So is saying "I will rape you so you can shut up" or so many other sexual epithets, rape threats, and intimidation attempts. The very ACT of doing many of the things that have been done towards Sarkesian-- and feminist activists as a general whole, not that you have actually read any of the articles I linked to you or paid a single goddamned bit of attention to anything I've said-- indicates a level of hatred for women and a desire to victimize women in order to silence them. To silence us, I should say, since I've been on the receiving end of the exact same thing innumerable times, including on this very forum.

Deny it all you want, you're just lying to yourself in doing so.

I have been called, and have called other people, male genitalia of various kinds and so has everyone and their brother.

I don't know if you realize this, but when women are in the company of men they act differently than when they are in the company of other men. The language that other men use around other men is completely different. It is literally unsuitable for polite conversation, polite conversation meaning conversation including members of the opposite sex. You don't even realize that men automatically self-censor and by social convention are expected to self-censor around women.

They also tend to use horrible insults against each other, in person, to each others faces. Basically, whatever men say on the internet is what they say to each other in real life when women are not around. It's not unusual. People get insulted and bullied on a daily basis.

And none of that flimsy argument actually justifies the attacks, no matter how hard it tries.

Also? Yes, women ARE targeted specifically, more than men. We actually have scientific proof of that.

And the reason is, quite simply, misogyny and sexism.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Do you think I've been insulted because I'm a man

It's a distinct possibility that you have. But that's nothing more than a lame distraction from the issue.

Calling a woman a [c-bomb] is inherently misogynistic. So is saying "I will rape you so you can shut up" or so many other sexual epithets, rape threats, and intimidation attempts. The very ACT of doing many of the things that have been done towards Sarkesian-- and feminist activists as a general whole, not that you have actually read any of the articles I linked to you or paid a single goddamned bit of attention to anything I've said-- indicates a level of hatred for women and a desire to victimize women in order to silence them. To silence us, I should say, since I've been on the receiving end of the exact same thing innumerable times, including on this very forum.

Deny it all you want, you're just lying to yourself in doing so.

I have been called, and have called other people, male genitalia of various kinds and so has everyone and their brother.

I don't know if you realize this, but when women are in the company of men they act differently than when they are in the company of other men. The language that other men use around other men is completely different. It is literally unsuitable for polite conversation, polite conversation meaning conversation including members of the opposite sex. You don't even realize that men automatically self-censor and by social convention are expected to self-censor around women.

They also tend to use horrible insults against each other, in person, to each others faces. Basically, whatever men say on the internet is what they say to each other in real life when women are not around. It's not unusual. People get insulted and bullied on a daily basis.

In case you haven't noticed, men on the internet rarely censor themselves.

Melissia is an internet and gaming fiend...she's probably heard most all of it even if she hasn't engaged in it outside of a screen. You're making assumptions about her just because of her gender...


Feth, I've known women who talk raunchy as hell around everyone. Men are generally worse about it, but it's not like women are these pure virginal beings. They're fething humans as well.

I was just saying it's not unusual or particular to women to be verbally abused, insulted, and named after genitals. It happens constantly.

It's also not particular for women to be marginalized, raped, enslaved, murdered, hanged, drawn and quartered, sawn in half, cut into bits, flayed, or otherwise mutilated.

It has historically been quite a bit more common for woman to be marginilized and raped then men.

Saying "these things can happen to men" does not change the FACT that they still happen more often to women.

I just told you outright that I have been verbally abused and been called everything in the English language. I've also dealt as much as I've received, I can tell you that much.

This isn't a hypothetical.

Also, did you not just get done telling me that the rate of something offensive does not affect the fact that its objectionable? Is the verbal abuse I've received qualitatively different? Is it not worthy of mention because I am a man? Is it not worthy of mention because I am not psychologically traumatized by it? I mean, literally last night right before we got into this discussion I watched two dudes hurl obscenities all night long.

Dude said right there it's pretty typical when you play games or go on the internet to get verbally abused constantly, and I'm telling you that it happens with the same level of frequency to your typical guy in locker rooms, in gym class, on the playground, at work, walking down the street, at parties, hanging out with friends, you name it.

Maybe if you're still in high school or have gak bags for friends.

I don't know any adults who do that without making it evident that is a joke...it sounds like you have some personel issues to be resolved.

 Amaya wrote:
Maybe if you're still in high school or have shitbags for friends.

I don't know any adults who do that without making it evident that is a joke...it sounds like you have some personel issues to be resolved.

Right back at the two of you.

It's your problem you're being verbally abused. Grow up and find better friends.

So.....thread's done?