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I built a list based on the basic codex...

HQ w Astropath to give +1 to reserve rolls
Mstr of ordinance for off board artillery support.
1 Ratlings (use human snipers)
1 Stormtrooper squad to deep strike
1 Platoon to go on board to avoid being tabled.
3 Squads 2 HW - 1 ML, 1 Mortar (I know mortars are crap but it feels fluffy good and it should be almost impossible to kill even if I roll a lot of 1s for reinforcements and have to hang on until T3.)
3 Vets to go into transports
3 Valkyries w Las and Twin Missile pods.
Allies
1 Inquisitor Coteas
1 Unit of Henchmen
1 Vindicare Assassin
All these on board also...

The only debate for me is 2 missile pods or 2 TL Lascannons of Vendettas... certainly more powerful AT and anti-air but I think vendettas can cover for this almost as good.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I built with a lot of Elysian limits but I think the basic codex provides a more robust force.

 ansacs wrote:
So you are staying on the board turn 1 with 2 vet squads?

You may want to think about turning them into a small platoon since their BS 4 does nothing for you with back board GL.

155 pts for 15 bodies versus 160 pts for 10 bodies...might help keep you on the board for turn 2 to arrive.

If you want a bad ...er, cheap weapon take a mortar so you can fire from out of LoS and stay alive. May keep you on the board so your strike force can show.

You could also really use an aegis defense line...Elysian style. Try http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440312a&prodId=prod1095505

Put a comms behind it and you might actually be able to play a fluffy competitive game. Cause lets be serious "fluffy" is not an elite Elysian strike force showing up one at a time to attack an emplaced enemy with substandard weapons and no forethought or preparation to even make barricades for their "forward scouts" who have to weather an enemy assault. Just cause it is soft doesn't mean it is not dangerous...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XcxKIJTb3Hg FEAR the fluffy!

Thanks for the comments. I might be wrong but in my mind Valkyries are as much a Flyer as a Fast skimmer, so they should be able to be on the board at turn one otherwise it would be odd that they have the scout ability.
I would be more prone to put everything on the board at turn one, especially if playing first and scout.

I agree about the small platoon if they are to stay and hold the line at home.

@ Peregrine

Yes by "Fluffy" I would use all endemic possible choice from a fluffy regiment of the IG.

Surely they are not the best, but a 6 strength weapon is never to be overlooked and a strength 3 blast is still better than a normal lasgun.

Yeah, so the regular IG can't take Tauros nor Drop sentinel unless they want to play with FW rules.

Elysian have a lot more than those two advantages and as I said at this point level I didn't have to leverage the Valkyries as dedicated transport because I didn't took any as Sky-talon were doing the job.

h3r0 wrote:
Yes by "Fluffy" I would use all endemic possible choice from a fluffy regiment of the IG.

Sorry, but "take a random pile of stuff" is not "fluffy". "Fluffy" is about telling a story, not merely the opposite of "powerful".

Surely they are not the best, but a 6 strength weapon is never to be overlooked and a strength 3 blast is still better than a normal lasgun.

Of course a STR 6 weapon is to be overlooked, because it has little chance of doing anything. If my opponents bring grenade launchers I thank the dice gods they wasted the unit and didn't bring melta or plasma instead.

As for the blast, who cares if it's better than a lasgun. "Better than a lasgun" isn't the standard, "better than plasma/melta" is, and frag grenades are not better than either.

Yeah, so the regular IG can't take Tauros nor Drop sentinel unless they want to play with FW rules.

Err, you do realize that taking drop Sentinels or Tauros at all means you're playing with FW rules, right? The Elysian drop troops list is a FW list.

Elysian have a lot more than those two advantages and as I said at this point level I didn't have to leverage the Valkyries as dedicated transport because I didn't took any as Sky-talon were doing the job.

And what are those supposed other advantages? Paying extra points for deep strike abilities you don't use?

I might be wrong but in my mind Valkyries are as much a Flyer as a Fast skimmer, so they should be able to be on the board at turn one otherwise it would be odd that they have the scout ability.

If only, please check the FAQ http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3000006&multiPageMode=true&start=2
Where the vendetta/valk have had scout removed. Then reread the rule book where ALL fliers have to start in reserve then reread the FAQ where vendetta/valk have the type flyer...so nope have to start in reserve and come on as a flier.

Peregrine is also entirely correct about elysian list being FW IA8 in fact. The units really iconic of elysians; aka drop sentinels, tauros, and vultures are all FW units located in FW books and made by FW. So if that is not your thing do not even look at the elysian list.

Peregrine is also partially right about the advantages of the elysian list. I would add at least one extra as I see taking 3 seperate vendettas and up to 3 more vultures on top of that as the best thing about the list. The rest of the stuff to me is somewhat lackluster in that list with a huge problem staying on the board in 6ed long enough for the reserves to come in.

BTW elysians dropping from the sky on top of enemy positions is super fluffy so if you get rid of that you may as well get a leman russ for the army.

On a side note I actually like the sky talon alright but the staying on the board issue is further exacerbated by additional fliers in the list.

 ansacs wrote:


If only, please check the FAQ http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/article.jsp?categoryId=1000018&pIndex=1&aId=3000006&multiPageMode=true&start=2
Where the vendetta/valk have had scout removed. Then reread the rule book where ALL fliers have to start in reserve then reread the FAQ where vendetta/valk have the type flyer...so nope have to start in reserve and come on as a flier.

Ah thank you! Yeah that change things dramatically. So I guess the Vulture would fallow the same path.

Peregrine is also entirely correct about elysian list being FW IA8 in fact. The units really iconic of elysians; aka drop sentinels, tauros, and vultures are all FW units located in FW books and made by FW. So if that is not your thing do not even look at the elysian list.

Sorry for the misunderstanding but that was absolutely my point, Tauros and Drop sentinels can only be played by FW armies not regular IG. From that I was saying that those vehicles were entirely part of the Elysian fluff.

Peregrine is also partially right about the advantages of the elysian list. I would add at least one extra as I see taking 3 seperate vendettas and up to 3 more vultures on top of that as the best thing about the list. The rest of the stuff to me is somewhat lackluster in that list with a huge problem staying on the board in 6ed long enough for the reserves to come in.

Yep those advantages are definitely a part of Elysian advantages, that doesn't mean you have to take an extra Valkyrie if you can't afford the points.

BTW elysians dropping from the sky on top of enemy positions is super fluffy so if you get rid of that you may as well get a leman russ for the army.

Yep this list is not leveraging it, I'll check on that.

On a side note I actually like the sky talon alright but the staying on the board issue is further exacerbated by additional fliers in the list.

All flyers in reserve instead of all flyers scouting is obviously a drastic change in the strategie. Not to steal the thread but what units do you guys bring to stay on the board on turn 1?

h3r0 wrote:
Sorry for the misunderstanding but that was absolutely my point, Tauros and Drop sentinels can only be played by FW armies not regular IG. From that I was saying that those vehicles were entirely part of the Elysian fluff.

Then you missed the point entirely. You started this part of the discussion by responding to my suggestion that using the codex list with drop Sentinels/Tauros/etc would be better than using the Elysian list. Stating that FW isn't always allowed makes no sense when the context of the discussion is playing somewhere that FW clearly IS allowed.

Yep those advantages are definitely a part of Elysian advantages, that doesn't mean you have to take an extra Valkyrie if you can't afford the points.

The point isn't that you need to bring more Valkyries, it is that if you aren't bringing the two things the Elysian list does better than the codex list (Valkyrie/Vendetta spam and deep striking infantry spam) you should just use a standard codex:IG army with drop Sentinels/etc included. The end result will be the same units, but with more efficiency.

 Peregrine wrote:

Then you missed the point entirely. You started this part of the discussion by responding to my suggestion that using the codex list with drop Sentinels/Tauros/etc would be better than using the Elysian list. Stating that FW isn't always allowed makes no sense when the context of the discussion is playing somewhere that FW clearly IS allowed.

I guess it's a question of context as I start building Elysian from the fact that I loved the minis and the air cavalry concept, so I took IA8 and discovered Tauros, Drop sentinel, Sky-Talons and others. But I agree now that you told me that other IG regiment can bring those they are not endemic from the Elysian army.

The point isn't that you need to bring more Valkyries, it is that if you aren't bringing the two things the Elysian list does better than the codex list (Valkyrie/Vendetta spam and deep striking infantry spam) you should just use a standard codex:IG army with drop Sentinels/etc included. The end result will be the same units, but with more efficiency.

I don't own AI1 so I don't know if the rest of the list would be valid organization chart wise.

What's sure, after knowing scout is not in order anymore, there is no point in that list anymore. Still wants to know what could be interesting to be deployed on turn 1.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As a side note, that's really too bad that you can't bring a 100% flyers armies even with Elysian.

Well, seems the Elysian list wont be that competetive but in the end that's no problem. One of my WHF armies is anything but an army you can win with but it was never meant to see a table it's just a showcase army. So maybe the Elysian army will end like my WHF army and will be a showcase army only - wont be a real problem but I will get me IA8 book and see what kind of army I can build with it. Maybe it's playable maybe not.

 Peregrine wrote:

h3r0 wrote:
First it's a Fluffy list, so probably not for your taste.

Read the unit entries in IA1 (second edition).

IA1 seems to be mainly about the Imperial Guard Armoured Battlegroup. Does it provide a way to fields Tauros, drop sentinel and Sky-talon with regular troop choices? I would like to know before considering buying it.

IA1ed2 is actually a giant unit list with rules. It has the ABG but that is like 30 pages out of a nearly 300 page book.


To stay on the table I normally bring 3-6 tarantula sentry guns, however, I normally ally in a small force of IG to do it with as they get them for 15 pts versus the 30+ pts elysians have to pay.

I consider it like this: the IG detachment are my attache scouts they go in and deploy sentry guns to slow the enemy. When the enemy are pinned down my elysians drop in and tear them a new one. Every battle is an ambush for the most mobile army in 40K and every battle is good.

You can bring anything but it needs to be deployed out of cover with a comms/ADL combo and needs to take more than 1 turn for the equivalent of 2 manticores to kill. 3 units of anything that will not easily run scattered around the board will usually do it if they are out of LoS and you make the opponent come to them.

Of course I run a DKoK/elysians combine regiment where the "elysians" wear more advanced equipment but wear gas masks. I also take equipment to win as I believe the IG fight to win and they would not come to a battlefield with a GL/mortar when they could have a melta/lascannon. The "elysians" still don't get any heavy weapons at all though.

 ansacs wrote:
IA1ed2 is actually a giant unit list with rules. It has the ABG but that is like 30 pages out of a nearly 300 page book.


To stay on the table I normally bring 3-6 tarantula sentry guns, however, I normally ally in a small force of IG to do it with as they get them for 15 pts versus the 30+ pts elysians have to pay.

I consider it like this: the IG detachment are my attache scouts they go in and deploy sentry guns to slow the enemy. When the enemy are pinned down my elysians drop in and tear them a new one. Every battle is an ambush for the most mobile army in 40K and every battle is good.

You can bring anything but it needs to be deployed out of cover with a comms/ADL combo and needs to take more than 1 turn for the equivalent of 2 manticores to kill. 3 units of anything that will not easily run scattered around the board will usually do it if they are out of LoS and you make the opponent come to them.

Of course I run a DKoK/elysians combine regiment where the "elysians" wear more advanced equipment but wear gas masks. I also take equipment to win as I believe the IG fight to win and they would not come to a battlefield with a GL/mortar when they could have a melta/lascannon. The "elysians" still don't get any heavy weapons at all though.

I'll try to have a look at IA1ed2 one day but for now I'll try to use the IA8 Elysian list. So I'll try to get closer to the theme.

Your DKoK/Elysian combo seems incredible in terme of fluff and beauty (DKoK and Elysian are the best looking armies I found) plus your strategy looks brillant. I will love to see a couple of pictures too!

I went back to my study and tried to pull a better list, still for 1500 points. I fielded a ADL with 26 troupers (4 units) going to ground behind it or out of Los (at least turn 1), it's a terrible feeling of wasted points but necessary I guess.

Fortification
- Aegis 50 points
- Comms Relay 20 points

HQ
- Long range ground scanner 50 points - Aegis GTG (2+ cover), TL one unit per turn on 4+.

Elite
- 2 Drop sentinel MM 100 - in Sky-Talon - Disembark within 12" of Armor/Monster
- 2 Drop sentinel MM 100 - in Sky-Talon - Disembark within 12" of Armor/Monster

Troop
- Platoon 295 points
PCS (35 points) - Aegis GTG first turn (2+ cover)
Inf squad (60 points) - Aegis GTG first turn (2+ cover)
Inf squad (60 points) - Aegis GTG first turn (2+ cover)
SWT 2 Fls, Demo, (70 points) - DS
SWT 2 Fls, Demo, (70 points) - DS
- Vets 3 PGs 125 points - in Vendetta - Track elite's troop
- Vets 3 PGs 125 points - in Vendetta - Track elite's troop

Fast attack
- Vendetta 2 HB, 3 TLs Lascannons, 140 points
- Vendetta 2 HB, 3 TLs Lascannons, 140 points

Heavy Support
- Sky-Talon HB, 2 MRP, 100 points - Move up to 12" and fire 2 LBlast.
- Sky-Talon HB, 2 MRP, 100 points - Move up to 12" and fire 2 LBlast.
- Vulture HB, TL Punisher Cannons, 155 points - Engage any infantry or AV10/11 squadrons.

I would really appreciate some feedback on it.

Much better. That is a huge improvement. The long range scanner is a good unit to throw into a vendetta. I would not start it on the board as it is a single T3 wound which will disappear before you can do anything. For some reason I thought this unit had been updated to be artillery but I couldn't find it so 1 T3 wound it is.

I would also probably drop 1 sky-talon and upgrade the other one to a vulture TL-punisher and use the other 45 pts with perhaps the vendetta HB to put another inf squad on the board to keep from getting wiped.

BTW you will probably deploy the ADL on one board corner so try to deploy more than 7" from the board edges (so you have a chance to stay on if they make you run) and one squad on the other edge in or behind terrain, preferrably LoS blocking terrain.

Also if you can try to scrounge 5 pts per inf squad to put in mortars as they are indirect fire and give them some utility. Don't take anything important out it is just a decent use of 5 extra pts.


I am a terri-bad painter (more like I have incredibly high standards and a shaky hand) so I am in a constant state of ~1/10 satisfied painted models and 8/10 recently stripped models. Its actually pretty embarrassing. I use the http://www.thewarstore.com/product82107.html Eisenkern Stormtrooper Rifle Squad as my "elysians" I think they fit with the high tech but with an aesthetic that fits with my DKoK guys (which are FW 90% and FW knock offs [whoops ebay] 10%)

Thanks, I'll see about trading 1 Sky-Talon and 2 Sentinels for more troops.

As for the mortars, "if only", only CCS can take a mortar, nothing available for PCS or Inf squads :(.

I really like the Eisenkern as well but I find them a little bit too tall for my taste. Still would like to see yours ;-)

h3r0 wrote:
I'll try to have a look at IA1ed2 one day but for now I'll try to use the IA8 Elysian list.

You need to get IA1 and IA:Aeronautica because the rules for various units have changed since IA8 was printed.

HQ
- Long range ground scanner 50 points - Aegis GTG (2+ cover), TL one unit per turn on 4+.

Not legal. The scanner is an HQ choice but can't be taken as the mandatory HQ (this was clarified in a rule update).

- Sky-Talon HB, 2 MRP, 100 points - Move up to 12" and fire 2 LBlast.
- Sky-Talon HB, 2 MRP, 100 points - Move up to 12" and fire 2 LBlast.

You might want to review the flyer rules (and get the latest rules for the Sky Talon in IA:Aeronautica if you don't think they're flyers).

- Vulture HB, TL Punisher Cannons, 155 points - Engage any infantry or AV10/11 squadrons.

Don't forget about vector dancer (again, IA:Aeronautica if you don't have it), which often gives you the ability to get into rear armor where even heavy tanks (usually AV 10 rear) will take an average of 6 HP lost. Against pretty much everything that isn't a Land Raider the Vulture is actually a better tank killer than the Vendetta.

Here's the list I usually play with my Elysians - and yes, I include grenade launchers, primarily because that's the weapon I have models for. The list is limited in its choices by the models I have available, but it does me pretty well.

+++ No Name (1499pts) +++ +++ 1500pt Chaos Space Marines 6th Ed (2012), IA8 Elysians Roster (Fortification, Primary Detachment)) +++ Selections: Chaos Space Marines 6th Ed (2012) (Fortification) Selections: + Fortification + * Aegis Defense Lines Comms relay (Comms Relay) IA8 Elysians (Primary Detachment) Selections: + HQ + * Elysian Company Command Squad Medi Pack + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Officer of the Fleet, Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Vox Caster + Lasgun * Company Commander Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol * Lord Commissar (Drop Regiment) Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon + Troops + * Elysian Drop Infantry Platoon * Heavy Weapons Squad 3x Missile Launcher * Infantry Squad Demolition Charge, Grenade Launcher * Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher * Infantry Squad Demolition Charge, Grenade Launcher, Vox Caster * Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher * Platoon Command Squad Plasma Gun, Vox-caster * Platoon Commander Close Combat Weapon, Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher * Valkyrie Assault Carrier * Valkyrie 2 Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser, Sponson Heavy Bolters * Special Weapon Squad 3x Demo Charge * Special Weapon Squad 3x Sniper Rifle * Veteran Squad Demolitions, 9x Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher * Veteran Sergeant Bolt Pistol, Laspistol * Veteran Squad Forward Sentries, 5x Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher, 2x Sniper Rifle * Veteran Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Laspistol + Fast Attack + * Tauros Venator Squadron * Tauros Venator Camo Netting, Homing Beacon, 2x Hunter-killer Missile, Twin-linked Lascannons + Heavy Support + * Vulture Gunship Squadron (Strafing Run, Vector Dancer) * Vulture Punisher Ammunition, Twin-linked Punisher Cannon
Created with BattleScribe

The other list I often run with uses Allies. The Sisters hold the line while the Elysians hang about in reserve before Deep Striking in on top of nasty things.

+++ No Name (1499pts) +++ +++ 1500pt Sisters of Battle (White Dwarf), IA8 Elysians Roster (Primary Detachment, Allied Detachment)) +++ Selections: Sisters of Battle (White Dwarf) (Primary Detachment) Selections: + HQ + * Saint Celestine (Ardent Blade) + Troops + * Battle Sister Squad 9x Battle Sister, Meltagun, Meltagun * Sister Superior Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta * Battle Sister Squad 9x Battle Sister, Meltagun, Meltagun * Sister Superior Bolt Pistol, Combi-melta + Heavy Support + * Retributor Squad 4x Heavy Bolter, 6x Retributor, Simulacrum Imperialis * Retributor Superior Bolt Pistol, Boltgun IA8 Elysians (Allied Detachment) Selections: + (No Category) + * Long-Range Ground Scanner Guardsman + HQ + * Elysian Company Command Squad Medi Pack + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Plasma Gun, Regimental Standard + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Vox Caster + Auxiliary Grenade Launcher * Company Commander Bolt Pistol, Power Weapon + Troops + * Elysian Drop Infantry Platoon * Heavy Weapons Squad 3x Missile Launcher * Infantry Squad Demolition Charge, Grenade Launcher, Vox Caster * Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher * Infantry Squad Demolition Charge, Grenade Launcher * Sergeant Close Combat Weapon, Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher * Platoon Command Squad Grenade Launcher, Vox-caster * Platoon Commander Close Combat Weapon, Lasgun with Auxiliary Grenade Launcher * Valkyrie Assault Carrier * Valkyrie 2 Multiple Rocket Pods, Multi-laser * Special Weapon Squad 3x Sniper Rifle * Special Weapon Squad 3x Demo Charge + Heavy Support + * Vulture Gunship Squadron (Strafing Run, Vector Dancer) * Vulture 2 Multiple Rocket Pods, Twin-linked Autocannon
Created with BattleScribe

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Here's the list I usually play with my Elysians - and yes, I include grenade launchers, primarily because that's the weapon I have models for. The list is limited in its choices by the models I have available, but it does me pretty well.

I will just point out that this is an awful list (too many useless upgrades, wrong weapons, too few aircraft). It might be the best you can do within the constraints of the models you have available, but nobody else should use it as an example of how to make a good Elysian list.

I have a 50/50 win ratio with it. Nowhere near as successful as my Sisters, but I don't consider myself to be an especially effective Elysian player, so if I can do that well with it there must be something right going on with the list.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I have a 50/50 win ratio with it. Nowhere near as successful as my Sisters, but I don't consider myself to be an especially effective Elysian player, so if I can do that well with it there must be something right going on with the list.

Or something wrong is going on with your opponents. If you're playing against similarly weak lists you can still win 50% of the time, but that doesn't change the fact that a better list would win 100% of the time.

Whoops good catch on the long range scanner Peregrine. I have not played with that in recent memory and my recollection of it is foggy.

Peregrine is also right that you really need to get some sort of access to the rules in the new books (IA2ed and IA:Aero) as many of these units have changed fairly drastically to fit with the new edition of rules. Beg a book to photo copy (gasp) or at least get a local FW player to let you right down the important points of departure. It is only the vehicles that change drastically the infantry you just need the IA8 FAQ from forgeworld (which can be challenging to find but google will do it).

To the OP you might want to get rid of the long range scanner for a real HQ. A lord commissar with a beacon or a CCS with a beacon are both decent choices. The LC probably less so than the CCS which can add to the firepower. Also keep in mind that you have no need to put units into the vendettas as your guys can all deep strike anyways. So the only benefit they get is if you hover the vendetta(in which case the enemy will kill it asap) you can disembark like a normal transport.

Whoops man I need to reread that list. Well then you can get homing beacons on some of your units to help your deep strikers. Also you don't need your transports to actually tranport the walker into battle they have deep strike as a rule if I remember correctly. So they drop them from the sky and race down to catch up with them and see who is first...cool.

Actually Furyou Miko your sisters list isn't too bad. St. Celestine is the perfect I will stay on the board unit. Even if they kill her they don't really kill her.

I am conflicted about the aux. grenade launchers as 3 pts seems steep for what you get but 10 S6 shots at BS 4 on your deep strike turn seems like it could be good. That is 7.5 hits versus rear armour (deep strike 12" away as you have 24" range) which would average 3.75 glances on a leman russ.

I love the medic model but anytime I see a medic I feel sad. (could you be exasperated for your picture?)

I agree I would not choose a number of those weapon options and some of those units if you have the choice of models.

You need to get IA1 and IA:Aeronautica because the rules for various units have changed since IA8 was printed.

You might want to review the flyer rules (and get the latest rules for the Sky Talon in IA:Aeronautica if you don't think they're flyers).

I am a bit confuse that I need all those books to play, I guess the rules book and IA8 will have to be enough for now as I don't have the budget to put in more IA books at the moment. I will eventually.
As for the Sky-Talon I was thinking (maybe wrongfully) about using them in hover mode for the extra manoeuvrability.

Not legal. The scanner is an HQ choice but can't be taken as the mandatory HQ (this was clarified in a rule update).

I read many posts about those type of HQ choices (my head still hurt) and at the end of the day I was under the impression that it was legal. I would love to have a look at an official FAQ if it exist, as for now I'll consider what I read in forums to be true.

Don't forget about vector dancer (again, IA:Aeronautica if you don't have it), which often gives you the ability to get into rear armor where even heavy tanks (usually AV 10 rear) will take an average of 6 HP lost. Against pretty much everything that isn't a Land Raider the Vulture is actually a better tank killer than the Vendetta.

Sound amazing! Make me want to grab two vultures but I don't think I would be able to play that rule until I buy the book.

As for the list itself is there some things that seem unbalanced or inefficient?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ansacs wrote:
Whoops good catch on the long range scanner Peregrine. I have not played with that in recent memory and my recollection of it is foggy.

Peregrine is also right that you really need to get some sort of access to the rules in the new books (IA2ed and IA:Aero) as many of these units have changed fairly drastically to fit with the new edition of rules. Beg a book to photo copy (gasp) or at least get a local FW player to let you right down the important points of departure. It is only the vehicles that change drastically the infantry you just need the IA8 FAQ from forgeworld (which can be challenging to find but google will do it).

To the OP you might want to get rid of the long range scanner for a real HQ. A lord commissar with a beacon or a CCS with a beacon are both decent choices. The LC probably less so than the CCS which can add to the firepower. Also keep in mind that you have no need to put units into the vendettas as your guys can all deep strike anyways. So the only benefit they get is if you hover the vendetta(in which case the enemy will kill it asap) you can disembark like a normal transport.

Whoops man I need to reread that list. Well then you can get homing beacons on some of your units to help your deep strikers. Also you don't need your transports to actually tranport the walker into battle they have deep strike as a rule if I remember correctly. So they drop them from the sky and race down to catch up with them and see who is first...cool.

I had no luck with the search and so far my investigation into the HQ choice let me to think it was legal, do you have a link to the clarification by any chance?
If I need to change it, I guess I will go back to Command Squad Tauros, that would be one more re-roll for reserve per turn.

It seems that I really need to find a digital copy before buying IA2ed and IA:Aero.

I can probably get a couple of homing beacons but don't really know if that's going to be really efficient as the homing bearers are going to be DSed as well.

Remember that if Celestine's on the ground, she counts as dead for the "no units left on the board at the end of the turn" rule.

The closest I have to an exasperated face is 'unimpressed'.

I use all my Medic models except Dorden as Demo Charges. Then again, I use Shadowforge miniatures for the majority of my army.

I love the auxiliary grenade launchers since a deep striking Vet squad is an alpha-strike unit if I ever saw one. They light off their grenade launchers and kill something, then usually die (unless I can convince my opponent that "now they just have lasguns they're not so great any more").

I had no luck with the search and so far my investigation into the HQ choice let me to think it was legal, do you have a link to the clarification by any chance?
If I need to change it, I guess I will go back to Command Squad Tauros, that would be one more re-roll for reserve per turn.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/I/IA8QandA.pdf

I googled the name of the pdf, so unfair advantage, yes.

The scanner has a star and footnote that it doesn't take up a FOC slot thereby your FOC is illegal as it doesn't have an HQ.

The FAQ says to not use the command tauros character outside of special games and the IA8 campaign. So perhaps but probably not.

If you use the command Tauros you should think about dropping the comms relay from the ADL as you cannot reroll a reroll.

I am a bit confuse that I need all those books to play, I guess the rules book and IA8 will have to be enough for now as I don't have the budget to put in more IA books at the moment. I will eventually.
As for the Sky-Talon I was thinking (maybe wrongfully) about using them in hover mode for the extra manoeuvrability.

Yep that is the real problem with FW that you need all these books to get the newest rules. They sometimes release the rules updates for free for these lists though but they haven't done that (yet) as IA1ed2 just came out like ~3 months ago. FW has awesome models and lists but they require even more purchases and more expensive purchases at that than a GW list.

The elysians are awesome though...

It seems that I really need to find a digital copy before buying IA2ed and IA:Aero.

May not want to post that cause website get in trouble when that sort of thing gets posted on them. On a side note IA2ed will be hard to find to say the least as it is relatively new and was not released digitally.

I can probably get a couple of homing beacons but don't really know if that's going to be really efficient as the homing bearers are going to be DSed as well.

Just get one on the command squad/LC and if the enemy closes on them without killing them completely you drop precisely what will hurt them most where it hurts them most. You can also use the comms relay to "decide" which unit you want deployed when by re-rolling successful results (useful to keep objective capturers off the board until 4th turn when you need them)

Remember that if Celestine's on the ground, she counts as dead for the "no units left on the board at the end of the turn" rule.

Yeah but people Hate to kill her (the capital is intended) as she just gets back up. Its like invalidating your opponents efforts and then laughing at them for it. (I will purposly go to lengths not to kill her and tarpit her just so I can do my "just as planned" laugh)


Is your avatar based on anything in particular?

"Unimpressed" certainly fits the rules for the medic and the avatar certainly looks "unimpressed". That is the look every guy dreads. (BTW chatting on this board with you always reminds me of playing suikoden back in the day)

Your games must look like half beach party/half D-Day if you are fielding Shadowforge minis.


Well I guess getting your opponent to focus down on a lasgun vet unit would be a win in a way. I might have to proxy some in sometime and see what they do. I just always seem to be tight on points and 3 pts is such an odd duck in an IG army.

I googled the name of the pdf, so unfair advantage, yes.

Hum not sure why you gave me the link to IA8 Faq, I don't think there is anything in it about Long range scanner.

The scanner has a star and footnote that it doesn't take up a FOC slot thereby your FOC is illegal as it doesn't have an HQ.

Yeah that's the rule that is debated, there is other HQ choices in other Codex with the same annotation, apparently it only means that it doesn't limit your other HQ selection but it's still an HQ selection even though it doesn't occupy an actual selection. I agree it's border line but so far I found more thread concluding that taking only those HQ choice is legal.

The FAQ says to not use the command tauros character outside of special games and the IA8 campaign. So perhaps but probably not.
If you use the command Tauros you should think about dropping the comms relay from the ADL as you cannot reroll a reroll.

Yep I am not to bothered about playing him only in friendly game, I have a Tauros already painted anyway. I will think about an alternative since you pointed that his main ability (re-rolling ONE reserve roll per turn) is useless with the comms relay.

Yep that is the real problem with FW that you need all these books to get the newest rules. They sometimes release the rules updates for free for these lists though but they haven't done that (yet) as IA1ed2 just came out like ~3 months ago. FW has awesome models and lists but they require even more purchases and more expensive purchases at that than a GW list.

I figured out that the Vulture has an extra BS for shooting none flyers units, as well as the 90deg free turn. 20 strength 5 BS4 that re-roll to hit is an average of 18 hits, mind is blown.
Sky-Talons also have the 90deg one so I guess I can keep them zooming.

The elysians are awesome though...

Just get one on the command squad/LC and if the enemy closes on them without killing them completely you drop precisely what will hurt them most where it hurts them most. You can also use the comms relay to "decide" which unit you want deployed when by re-rolling successful results (useful to keep objective capturers off the board until 4th turn when you need them)

Roger that.

h3r0 wrote:
Yeah that's the rule that is debated, there is other HQ choices in other Codex with the same annotation, apparently it only means that it doesn't limit your other HQ selection but it's still an HQ selection even though it doesn't occupy an actual selection. I agree it's border line but so far I found more thread concluding that taking only those HQ choice is legal.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/Impgupdate.pdf

Even if the "doesn't occupy a FOC slot" ambiguity doesn't exist the scanner has been explicitly updated to say that it can't be a mandatory HQ choice.

Yeah that's the rule that is debated, there is other HQ choices in other Codex with the same annotation, apparently it only means that it doesn't limit your other HQ selection but it's still an HQ selection even though it doesn't occupy an actual selection. I agree it's border line but so far I found more thread concluding that taking only those HQ choice is legal.

It is however in my mind pretty clear but yeah...

Yeah lets not do a rules debate here but anything that is "borderline" rules I normally avoid.

Yep I am not to bothered about playing him only in friendly game, I have a Tauros already painted anyway. I will think about an alternative since you pointed that his main ability (re-rolling ONE reserve roll per turn) is useless with the comms relay.

Well now that changes things as rule of cool means everything. Honestly they should have a rule that if your opponent thinks your model looks cool they get a free reroll, its like RPJ for non orks.

I figured out that the Vulture has an extra BS for shooting none flyers units, as well as the 90deg free turn. 20 strength 5 BS4 that re-roll to hit is an average of 18 hits, mind is blown.
Sky-Talons also have the 90deg one so I guess I can keep them zooming.

yep that is why the vulture is awesome*awesome. BTW it is more like 19.5 hits...so yeah. Also do not forget that with vector dance the vulture is the single best leman russ hunter in the game with an average of 6 glances on rear armour 10 (which is easy to get when you move like a vulture does) or 3 glances on a AV11.


The new reserves system other than the limits it places on deployment allows for quite a bit of strategic lateral thinking. It is kinda awesome.

Also keep in the back of your mind if you ever want to get "competitive" you can do so reasonably easily by just getting some allies into the list for a stronger turn 1 presence (SW drop allies probably the best).

 ansacs wrote:
Also keep in mind that you have no need to put units into the vendettas as your guys can all deep strike anyways. So the only benefit they get is if you hover the vendetta(in which case the enemy will kill it asap) you can disembark like a normal transport.

This is not true. Putting units aboard transports doesn't do much to help with the location deliver them to, but it makes a huge difference in timing. If you have them arrive by deep strike you have little control over when they arrive, they come in on a 3+ whether you like it or not. On the other hand, if you have them aboard a Vendetta, you can choose to deliver a squad immediately to kill something, or you can hold them back in relative safety until it's time for a late-game objective grab and major anti-infantry threats have been destroyed.

Why is there even an argument about the Long-range Scanner?

It doesn't take up a force organisation slot. So how can it possibly fill a compulsory one?

That's like saying having water on the side of your whiskey counts as drinking two whiskeys.

My avatar? Kind of. It represents a character I created as part of my Almek Empire campaign setting, Colonel Galatea Arkani Livens. However, the image itself was stolen from Saint_Bomber - all of the various expressions are modified from his work on the Duchess of Elstwhere from his game Embric of Wulfhammer's Castle. All I did was cut the reference sheet up and colour the eyes teal.

well, I don't really use the more egrarious miniatures. ^^; My Jacobus is one of the Shadowforge Farm Girls (the one with the shotgun and coulottes), my Veterans are Politburo Worker's Batallion and my infantry are Spec. Ops Marines.

Peregrine wrote:

 ansacs wrote:
Also keep in mind that you have no need to put units into the vendettas as your guys can all deep strike anyways. So the only benefit they get is if you hover the vendetta(in which case the enemy will kill it asap) you can disembark like a normal transport.

This is not true. Putting units aboard transports doesn't do much to help with the location deliver them to, but it makes a huge difference in timing. If you have them arrive by deep strike you have little control over when they arrive, they come in on a 3+ whether you like it or not. On the other hand, if you have them aboard a Vendetta, you can choose to deliver a squad immediately to kill something, or you can hold them back in relative safety until it's time for a late-game objective grab and major anti-infantry threats have been destroyed.

That is true. So it is a choice on what you need and when/where you need it. Scoring units with little early game fire output should probably be kept in the vendetta. Damage dealers are probably better served deep striking by themselves as the vendetta has to waste some of its gunboat advantages in order to drop them off (either adjusting its flight path which hurts its damage output or dropping into hover which hurts its survivability)

Furyou Miko wrote:Why is there even an argument about the Long-range Scanner?

It doesn't take up a force organisation slot. So how can it possibly fill a compulsory one?

That's like saying having water on the side of your whiskey counts as drinking two whiskeys.

My avatar? Kind of. It represents a character I created as part of my Almek Empire campaign setting, Colonel Galatea Arkani Livens. However, the image itself was stolen from Saint_Bomber - all of the various expressions are modified from his work on the Duchess of Elstwhere from his game Embric of Wulfhammer's Castle. All I did was cut the reference sheet up and colour the eyes teal.

well, I don't really use the more egrarious miniatures. ^^; My Jacobus is one of the Shadowforge Farm Girls (the one with the shotgun and coulottes), my Veterans are Politburo Worker's Batallion and my infantry are Spec. Ops Marines.

So you took the avatar bit on the profile creation literally.

Those actually look pretty respectful overall not bad looking. So you play sisters with female guard, are they rejected-initiates for the sisters?

Honestly I cannot even tell if my force are men or women. DKoK and their likes just are totally devoid of sexual characteristics.

No, actually - my Guard are the Solstice Lunar III Regiment.

Solstice is a Forge World in a fringe area, while its moon holds training grounds and fortress-colonies. The Solstice Lunar colonies are a matriarchal society who live the majority of their lives in subterranean hives where they're safe from the rampant fauna and flora that populate the surface. Solstice Lunar regiments' speciality is combat engineering and rapid redeployment via aircraft - the only safe way to travel between colony complexes. They use autoguns rather than lasguns because of the las-resistant nature of a lot of the threats on their home world, although any unit that's been on deployment for some time will tend to end up with a mix of Solstice-pattern autoguns and Accatran-pattern las weapons.

The Lunar III regiment are nicknamed the Sunshiners because of the sacrificial re-entry shields their aircraft are fitted with to ally deployment from high orbit. The shields burn off with a bright white flare as they enter the atmosphere - when the entire regiment deploys, it turns night into day.

Sunshiners deploy, dig in, and hold the line until heavy ground troops can occupy their fortifications. Then they mount back up and fly off to the next site that needs reinforcement or something built.

Peregrine wrote: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/i/Impgupdate.pdf

Even if the "doesn't occupy a FOC slot" ambiguity doesn't exist the scanner has been explicitly updated to say that it can't be a mandatory HQ choice.

Perfect! Thanks for searching, that's pretty clear now.

ansacs wrote:Well now that changes things as rule of cool means everything. Honestly they should have a rule that if your opponent thinks your model looks cool they get a free reroll, its like RPJ for non orks.

I am all for that!

yep that is why the vulture is awesome*awesome. BTW it is more like 19.5 hits...so yeah. Also do not forget that with vector dance the vulture is the single best leman russ hunter in the game with an average of 6 glances on rear armour 10 (which is easy to get when you move like a vulture does) or 3 glances on a AV11.

Damn I will have to take three then

Also keep in the back of your mind if you ever want to get "competitive" you can do so reasonably easily by just getting some allies into the list for a stronger turn 1 presence (SW drop allies probably the best).

Most definitely! One day, in 4 years, when I will have paint all those figurines.

Appart from that I have a big news, I emailed FW a couple of days ago when you guys pointed out that you had to have something fortified on the table in order to not auto-loose. This is so far from the Elysian way that I couldn't believe it was possible. So I emailed FW to ask them if in the future they will update the Elysian to resolve this.

They answered today, they are indeed working on an update on the Elysian's 6th edition rules and they are planning on realeasing it in a couple of weeks! Plus this update will apparently fix the all Air Cav aspect!
AWESOME.
I guess I'll wait before trying to amend my current army list.