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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:20:25
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)
The Great State of Texas
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About damn time. Easier to go directly to the article, but copying too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2300381/Thousands-armed-vigilantes-takeover-Mexican-town-arrest-police-shoot-tourists-commander-killed-dumped-street.html
Thousands of armed vigilantes takeover Mexican town, arrest police and shoot at tourists after 'commander' is killed and dumped in the street'Community police' arrest former director of security in Tierra Colorado
They allege he took part in killing of their leader, 28, for criminal cartel
State prosecutors agree to investigate official's links to organised crime
Vigilantes have been stopping traffic at checkpoints and searching homes
Tourist injured after vigilantes opened fire because he failed to stop his car
Takeover comes amid growing 'self defence' movement against cartels
By Alex Gore
PUBLISHED: 09:16 GMT, 28 March 2013 | UPDATED: 14:42 GMT, 28 March 2013
Comments (27) Share
..Thousands of armed vigilantes have taken over a town in Mexico and arrested police officers after their 'commander' was killed and dumped in the street.
The self described 'community police' and arrested 12 officers and the town's former director of public security, who they accuse of taking part in the killing of Guadalupe Quinones Carbajal, 28, on behalf of a local organised crime group.
The 1,500-strong force has also set up improvised checkpoints on the major road running through Tierra Colorado, which connects the capital Mexico City to Acapulco, a coastal city popular with tourists less than 40 miles away.
Takeover: A group of around 1,500 armed vigilantes have seized control of Tierra Colorado in Mexico this week
Checkpoints: The 'community police' have been stopping traffic on a main road to the capital Mexico City
A tourist heading to the beach with relatives for the Easter weekend was injured on Tuesday after the vigilantes opened fire on his car because he refused to stop at a roadblock.
The takeover comes amid a growing movement of 'self defence' groups in the region, which claim to be fighting against drug cartels.
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The town is home to around 20,000 people and at least 2,000 civilians are thought to have fled.
The Tierra Colorado vigilantes have also been searching people's homes and are reported to have seized drugs from some properties.
Growing movement: The group is one of many 'self-defence' forces which claim to be fighting organised crime
Major route: Tierra Colorada is in the southern state of Guerrero on the way from Mexico City to Acapulco
The arrested former security official and police officers have been handed over to state prosecutors, who agreed to investigate their alleged links to organised crime.
Many of the vigilantes are carrying high-powered assault rifles, which may have been seized from the former security director's car.
The group's 'commander' Carbajal's body had been found dumped in the street in a nearby town on Monday.
The force's spokesman, Bruno Placido Valerio, said: 'We have besieged the municipality, because here criminals operate with impunity in broad daylight, in view of municipal authorities.
Holiday destination: Tierra Colorado is on a major road to Acapulco, a city popular with tourists 35 miles away
'Self-defence': Armed residents take part in the March for Justice in Ayutla de los Libres earlier this month
'We have detained the director of public security because he is involved with criminals and he knows who killed our commander.'
One of those arrested by the group was Juan R. Escudero,police chief of the municipality.
Self-appointed protection: Hundreds of members of a 'community police force' march through Ayutla de los Libres this month
The vigilantes are part of regional umbrella group Union of Peoples and Organizations of Guerrero State.
The Union is made up of residents in Tierra Colorado, as well as neighbouring towns such as Ayutla de los Libres, Teconoapa and San Marcos.
The growing vigilante movement in southern and western Mexico has seen masked groups manning checkpoints and searching vehicles for weapons.
They have also been searching for those named on a hand-written list of people suspected of crimes including theft and extortion.
In February, a pair of tourists from Mexico City were wounded on their way to the beach when they were shot at after refusing to stop at one of the roadblocks.
The vigilantes claim they are fighting violence, kidnap and extortion by drug cartels - but there are fears that the groups are violating human rights of those they detain and cooperating with criminals.
The state itself is home to some of the poorest rural communities in the country and last year had Mexico's highest murder rate -with 90 per cent of crimes reported as going unsolved or not even investigated.
It has been the scene of bloody fighting between rival drugs gangs bidding for control of the lucrative smuggling routes around the Pacific coast.
More than 70,000 are estimated to have died in drug-related violence across Mexico in the past six years.
Tourism remains an important part of the state's economy, with the coastal city's of Acapulco, Taxco and Zihuatanejo dubbed the 'Triangle of Sun'.
In January, hundreds of armed vigilantes made a series of arrests and imposed curfews in Ayutla de los Libres and Teconoap.
They also manned checkpoints and claimed they had arrested at least 30 suspected criminals.
One of the masked vigilantes said: 'They kill, extort, rape. You do know if they are drugs dealers, thugs, who want to grab everything.
'We want to return peace and tranquility to the entire population. Only the people can restore order.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2300381/Thousands-armed-vigilantes-takeover-Mexican-town-arrest-police-shoot-tourists-commander-killed-dumped-street.html#ixzz2OwFQseg2
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-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 14:25:21
Subject: Re:Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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It's unfortunate that it came to this, but something had to be done. Now if they could build some water treatment plants, perhaps Mexico would be a really cool place to live, and not just a collection of tourist traps surrounded by squalor.
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 15:01:22
Subject: Re:Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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I see Military Junta assuming power in the tea leaves...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 15:12:35
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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I can't help but wonder if a rival cartel funds this group.
If not, good for them. Reminds me of how Los Pepes made life for Mr. Escobar interesting further south.
Jake
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 15:38:27
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
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Drug users funding cartels with their money would have better effect if they cared about the people getting killed in Mexico and quite buying the drugs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 16:29:35
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Relapse wrote:Drug users funding cartels with their money would have better effect if they cared about the people getting killed in Mexico and quite buying the drugs.
Or the the farcial war on drugs was wound down and most drugs were legalised meaning that the illegal market would vanish nearly over night. That would actually work, certainly far better than telling people not to take drugs.
As for these militias I can't see it ending well.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 16:51:49
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
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Palindrome wrote:Relapse wrote:Drug users funding cartels with their money would have better effect if they cared about the people getting killed in Mexico and quite buying the drugs.
Or the the farcial war on drugs was wound down and most drugs were legalised meaning that the illegal market would vanish nearly over night. That would actually work, certainly far better than telling people not to take drugs.
As for these militias I can't see it ending well.
What the hell. It's only brown people getting killed by the tens of thousands so the parties can happen. Users certainly don't care.
As for the militias, I have to agree with you.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 17:12:57
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Relapse wrote:
What the hell. It's only brown people getting killed by the tens of thousands so the parties can happen. Users certainly don't care.
These people are getting killed because the illegal drugs trade is so lucrative, it is ALL about money. Users care just as much as the legislators do, quite possibly more.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 17:13:46
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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Palindrome wrote:Relapse wrote:Drug users funding cartels with their money would have better effect if they cared about the people getting killed in Mexico and quite buying the drugs.
Or the the farcial war on drugs was wound down and most drugs were legalised meaning that the illegal market would vanish nearly over night. That would actually work, certainly far better than telling people not to take drugs.
Right... blame the people who are upholding the law. Not the ones who are breaking the law, for pure "recreation", and as a result getting tens of thousands killed. Automatically Appended Next Post: Palindrome wrote:Relapse wrote:
What the hell. It's only brown people getting killed by the tens of thousands so the parties can happen. Users certainly don't care.
These people are getting killed because the illegal drugs trade is so lucrative, it is ALL about money. Users care just as much as the legislators do, quite possibly more.
Then stop taking the drugs. Doesn't mean you have to stop efforts to get it legalized, but as long as their funneling money to the cartels the blood is still on the hands of the users. No one else. Users are the ones making the decision to give them money. No one else is.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 17:16:20
Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 17:17:09
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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djones520 wrote:
Right... blame the people who are upholding the law. Not the ones who are breaking the law, for pure "recreation", and as a result getting tens of thousands killed.
Please engage your brain. The legislative approach has been tried for decades and it is an abject failure; it is also the root casue for all the tens of thousands of deaths that you so helpfully blame on law breakers. Prohibition never works.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 17:31:38
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fate-Controlling Farseer
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My brains is perfectly engaged. It's a simple thought process.
Recreational drugs are just that. Recreational. There is no need for their usage (initially, of course many of them get their claws into you and it becomes near impossible to shake them). So because there is no need for their usage, then there is no need for you to buy them.
So, no matter what the law says, you buying them is a decision YOU alone are making. That decision leads to consequences. So man up to those consequences.
Now, would legalizing drugs take the power out of the hand of the cartels? Probably. But more importantly, not taking the drugs that are in no way necessary, would never put the money into the hands of the cartels in the first place.
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Full Frontal Nerdity |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 17:32:38
Subject: Re:Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Hallowed Canoness
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The military doesn't have enough control ability. The cartels are holding them in stand up fights in the streets of Mexico.
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I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
SoB, IG, SM, SW, Nec, Cus, Tau, FoW Germans, Team Yankee Marines, Battletech Clan Wolf, Mercs
DR:90-SG+M+B+I+Pw40k12+ID+++A+++/are/WD-R+++T(S)DM+ |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 17:40:58
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
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Palindrome wrote:Relapse wrote:
What the hell. It's only brown people getting killed by the tens of thousands so the parties can happen. Users certainly don't care.
These people are getting killed because the illegal drugs trade is so lucrative, it is ALL about money. Users care just as much as the legislators do, quite possibly more.
Tell that to the Mexicans I work with that have had families put in jeapordy or had to leave a country they love because of drug users giving cartels money enough to gain the power that destabilized Mexico and turned it into a hell hole. They'll answer you with nothing but contempt for your attitude since They say legalization will put the people who terrorized them and killed members of their families even more in control.
They also won't be fooled by drug users saying they want legalization in order to stop the killing since if that was the concern, they would have stopped using drugs the minute they knew what they were contributing their money to for the sake of recreation.
One Mexican put it to me like this, summing up the thoughts of a lot of the Mexicans, Central and South Americans I work with this way, "Those( drug using) fethers don't give a damn about us Mexicans. They just say feth those peons and have them pick the fruit."
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/03/29 17:50:51
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 17:47:44
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Am I the only person who found this funny?
djones520 wrote:So, no matter what the law says, you buying them is a decision YOU alone are making. That decision leads to consequences. So man up to those consequences.
Now, would legalizing drugs take the power out of the hand of the cartels? Probably. But more importantly, not taking the drugs that are in no way necessary, would never put the money into the hands of the cartels in the first place.
No no, we are completely powerless to make any decision unless the government tells us we can or cannot  After all, the government telling people not to take drugs has been followed by everyone, right??
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/29 17:48:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 18:23:38
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Battlefield Tourist
MN (Currently in WY)
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djones520 wrote: But more importantly, not taking the drugs that are in no way necessary, would never put the money into the hands of the cartels in the first place.
Ask Nancy Reagan about it.
I think that Genie maybe out of the bottle already.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 18:48:55
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
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Easy E wrote: djones520 wrote: But more importantly, not taking the drugs that are in no way necessary, would never put the money into the hands of the cartels in the first place.
Ask Nancy Reagan about it.
I think that Genie maybe out of the bottle already.
I'm afraid you're right on that, as well as the Mexicans. Drug users don't care one way or the other the human cost or the fact a region is destabalized as long as they get their recreational drugs.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 18:57:50
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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Relapse wrote:
Tell that to the Mexicans I work with that have had families put in jeapordy or had to leave a country they love because of drug users giving cartels money enough to gain the power that destabilized Mexico and turned it into a hell hole. They'll answer you with nothing but contempt for your attitude since They say legalization will put the people who terrorized them and killed members of their families even more in control.
Thats is complete and utter bollocks. Legalisation will mean regulation of supply, manufacture and content; in effect the cartels will lose contol almost entirely. If a legal market exists (that isn't needlessly restrictive) the illegal market will dry up. Its pure supply and demand.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:. Drug users don't care one way or the other the human cost or the fact a region is destabalized as long as they get their recreational drugs.
While the politicans (and vast swathes of the electorate) that are prefectly happy to continue the completely ineffectual 'war on drugs' that perpetuates the vast numbers of drug related deaths are obviously completely blameless.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/29 19:00:39
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 19:19:59
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
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Palindrome wrote:Relapse wrote:
Tell that to the Mexicans I work with that have had families put in jeapordy or had to leave a country they love because of drug users giving cartels money enough to gain the power that destabilized Mexico and turned it into a hell hole. They'll answer you with nothing but contempt for your attitude since They say legalization will put the people who terrorized them and killed members of their families even more in control.
Thats is complete and utter bollocks. Legalisation will mean regulation of supply, manufacture and content; in effect the cartels will lose contol almost entirely. If a legal market exists (that isn't needlessly restrictive) the illegal market will dry up. Its pure supply and demand.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Relapse wrote:. Drug users don't care one way or the other the human cost or the fact a region is destabalized as long as they get their recreational drugs.
While the politicans (and vast swathes of the electorate) that are prefectly happy to continue the completely ineffectual 'war on drugs' that perpetuates the vast numbers of drug related deaths are obviously completely blameless.
You aren't really thinking this through. The cartels and their methods of controling the trade aren't going to go away if the drugs are legalized. All it means is that they will now be able to operate in the open and not have to smuggle.
Vast swathes of the electorate aren't the ones giving the money to the cartels. It's the drug users that couldn't give two feths about the people being killed and and a country destabilized so they can have their recreation.
It certainly isn't bollocks that most Mexicans have nothing but contempt for people talking about decriminilization, all the while buying cartel drugs
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/29 19:45:28
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/29 20:56:48
Subject: Re:Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor
Gathering the Informations.
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KalashnikovMarine wrote:
The military doesn't have enough control ability. The cartels are holding them in stand up fights in the streets of Mexico.
Well yeah.
Because dependent upon which of the cartels we're talking about, they very well might have members(or former members) of the military in their employ.
Los Zetas are a great example of this. A huge swathe of Mexican commandos deserted to work for the Gulf Cartels as a paramilitary wing.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 08:40:37
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Heroic Senior Officer
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My problem with the legalization is that I don't think it would stop the illegal smuggling of stuff from Mexico. If weed were to be legalized for example, I GUARANTEE the government would heavily tax it, probably require a license or tax stamp to grow it, and actually distributing it would be difficult, at least in the beginning. You'd have to convince businesses to stock a product that was not only illegal a short while ago, but has a large social stigma attached to it, and could very well turn illegal again, causing them to lose lots of their investment. They might view the risk as very high, and then charge very high to mitigate that. And when they do, the drug cartels will be waiting with far cheaper product, and the vicious cycle will continue. They don't have to pay taxes, follow regulations, pay their employees minimum wage, etc. If you want proof, check out the moonshine problem the Appalachia area of the USA has. You can get a license to sell "moonshine" (although if it's legally made it's not real moonshine as far as anyone is concerned). However, to make that legal moonshine, you have to pay tons of money for a license, proper facilities and packaging, and pay heavy taxation on top of it. So what did the local moonshiners do? A few stupid ones went legal, only to get undercut heavily by the remaining illegal moonshiners, and the problem never went away. In fact, it's so prolific I can probably get the illegal moonshine EASIER than I could get the legal stuff, and I know I can get it for far cheaper, by the gallon jug (or the canning jars if you're classy) OT: If these people really are a concerned militia and are doing it for the good of their community, good on them. However, I feel we're not hearing the whole story here, especially since a lot of them apparently have weapons that, to my knowledge, are illegal for civilians to get in Mexico. I'm really worried these people may be getting sponsored by another cartel, either unknowingly, or that it may be a cartel disguising itself as a militia. Either way, Mexico is in a rough shape right now. I'm surprised there haven't been more towns mobilizing militas like this.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/30 08:45:52
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 09:39:09
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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There is already a perfect comparison; alcohol (and indeed tobacco). That is heavily taxed yet the alcohol black market is relatively small and doesn't involve firefights in the street. If given the choice people will tend to do things the legal way, especially if the product has fully regulated strength and content. Some smuggling will continue, of course it will, but the market will be much reduced and the profit margins will be lower, the cartels as they are now will simply not survive.
Prohibition of alcohol created the same problems that prohibition of drugs did yet once alcohol was legalised those problems effectively went away. I see no reason why the same won't happen with the legalisation of drugs. It is you is who isn't thinking this through, or rather you already have your little stance all picked out and are unwilling to change it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/03/30 10:44:26
The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 09:41:58
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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Relapse wrote:Tell that to the Mexicans I work with that have had families put in jeapordy or had to leave a country they love because of drug users giving cartels money enough to gain the power that destabilized Mexico and turned it into a hell hole. They'll answer you with nothing but contempt for your attitude since They say legalization will put the people who terrorized them and killed members of their families even more in control.
This is a stupid thing you said and you should feel bad about it.
If any given drug suddenly became legal, the cartels would almost instantly lose their power. The cartels would be forced to compete with Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer et al. Dimebag Donnie on the street corner would then have to compete with Wal-Mart and Costco.
The black market would be out of business overnight for the exact same reason you've probably never bought Aspirin or Tylenol from the hippie down the street.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 12:59:29
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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Exactly, because there is no market at all for cigarettes or booze without tax stamps... And because the mob that was violent during prohibition turned completely legit and non-violent once prohibition stopped. Oh wait. Somethings many of you seem to ignore or may not be aware of: 1. These cartels use extreme violence and enjoy a lot of power as a result. They are not going to become peaceful folks just because dope is legal in the US. 2. The narcos are more than dope moving businessmen. There is effectively an insurgency (or multiple insurgencies) going on in Mexico. Cartels have effectively carved chunks of territory out of the Gov't, set up their own quasi-governments and even provide some services to the areas under their contol. It is about more than just money at this point, it is about control and power. 3. Narcotics are not their only revenue stream. They have petroleum and other means of financing their endevours. Cutting the narcotic revenue does hurt them, but they still will bring in more than say the Taliban who seem to be able to fund their insurgency pretty well. It is more than a drug issue. US pilicy is crap and has been for decades, but the problem goes well beyond demand in the US at this point. Jake
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/03/30 13:00:55
Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 14:26:19
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Oberstleutnant
Back in the English morass
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CptJake wrote:Exactly, because there is no market at all for cigarettes or booze without tax stamps
Of course there is but it is relatively small and untaxed alcohol and cigartettes tend to be commercial brands from abroad. There is a lot less money in a black market in direct competition with a white market than a black market alone.
No one is suggesting that the cartels are nice people, or that they will vanish overnight, but their main source of income is the drugs trade and if they are cut off from that they will wither away.
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The prefect example of someone missing the point.
Do not underestimate the Squats. They survived for millenia cut off from the Imperium and assailed on all sides. Their determination and resilience is an example to us all.
-Leman Russ, Meditations on Imperial Command book XVI (AKA the RT era White Dwarf Commpendium).
Its just a shame that they couldn't fight off Andy Chambers.
Warzone Plog |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 14:40:24
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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That is wishful thinking. They have plenty of non-drug revenue, and just like the organized crime that ran booze during prohibition did not wither away, neither will these guys. In fact, they are less likely to wither away. I again point to the insurgency like activities and other forms of revenue.
As for untaxed cigarettes being comercial brands from abroad, that may be true in your nation, but in the US there are plenty of black market domestic cigarettes.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=129934561
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Every time a terrorist dies a Paratrooper gets his wings. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 15:18:53
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions
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Palindrome wrote:No one is suggesting that the cartels are nice people, or that they will vanish overnight, but their main source of income is the drugs trade and if they are cut off from that they will wither away.
No. They'll just move onto other revenue streams, like so many other criminal organisations before.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 15:36:25
Subject: Re:Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
CL VI Store in at the Cyber Center of Excellence
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A few more things to ponder.
Every year a higher percentage of product is being shipped across the Atlantic to Africa where it then moves to European markets.
You can make a strong case for legalizing pot, it will be very hard to get cocaine legalized in the US and you have almost no chance of getting meth and heroin legalized.
The cartels currently import precurrsor chemicals from China and other places for meth production and have been increasing production annually.
Some interesting reading:
http://www.anser.org/docs/asyst-doc/mexican_cartels.pdf
(I have documents covering revenue diversification on another computer)
Assuming low non-drug revenue:
Assuming a higher non-drug revenue:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/11/09/how-marijuana-legalization-will-affect-mexicos-cartels-in-charts/
The non-drug income alone is more than the Talibs bring in to run their insurgency. The cartels are capable of increasing the non-drug revenue streams, and are in fact very adaptable.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 16:59:16
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Incorporating Wet-Blending
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The U.S just needs to annex Mexico.
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Mannahnin wrote:A lot of folks online (and in emails in other parts of life) use pretty mangled English. The idea is that it takes extra effort and time to write properly, and they’d rather save the time. If you can still be understood, what’s the harm? While most of the time a sloppy post CAN be understood, the use of proper grammar, punctuation, and spelling is generally seen as respectable and desirable on most forums. It demonstrates an effort made to be understood, and to make your post an easy and pleasant read. By making this effort, you can often elicit more positive responses from the community, and instantly mark yourself as someone worth talking to.
insaniak wrote: Every time someone threatens violence over the internet as a result of someone's hypothetical actions at the gaming table, the earth shakes infinitisemally in its orbit as millions of eyeballs behind millions of monitors all roll simultaneously.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 18:39:48
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord
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CptJake wrote:Exactly, because there is no market at all for cigarettes or booze without tax stamps...
When was the last time you heard about violence associated with unstamped cigarettes? Let's compare that to the violence associated with, say, methamphetamine.
Go on, I'll wait.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/03/30 18:42:11
Subject: Armed Vigilante Formations taking over Mexican Towns to Drive out Criminals
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Fixture of Dakka
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azazel the cat wrote:Relapse wrote:Tell that to the Mexicans I work with that have had families put in jeapordy or had to leave a country they love because of drug users giving cartels money enough to gain the power that destabilized Mexico and turned it into a hell hole. They'll answer you with nothing but contempt for your attitude since They say legalization will put the people who terrorized them and killed members of their families even more in control.
This is a stupid thing you said and you should feel bad about it.
If any given drug suddenly became legal, the cartels would almost instantly lose their power. The cartels would be forced to compete with Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer et al. Dimebag Donnie on the street corner would then have to compete with Wal-Mart and Costco.
The black market would be out of business overnight for the exact same reason you've probably never bought Aspirin or Tylenol from the hippie down the street.
So you're telling me the Mexicans I talk to, who hear daily from family members in Mexico about the latest thing the cartels did, are stupid and don't know a thing about the cartels? This is good to know that someone who lives in Canada can have such intimate knowledge of affairs as compared to those living in the middle of all the trouble.
The cartels already have been given all they need, courtesy, of drug user money, to establish a pretty solid base of power in Mexico and other countries south of there. I don't know what histories you have read that make you think they are just going to give up all of that and dissapear, but you and Pallindrome are really incorrect on this.
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