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DA standard of devastation makes bolters salvo, but if the model moves it can't fire at full range? A normal bolt gun can fire 1 shot at 24" even after moving but under the SoD effect if they can only fire max 12"?

Correct, however there are people who claim that the Bolter is both Salvo and Rapid Fire, so you can choose the profile to use. This stance has no rules backing.

 Happyjew wrote:
Correct, however there are people who claim that the Bolter is both Salvo and Rapid Fire, so you can choose the profile to use. This stance has no rules backing.

It has rules backing as nothing takes the rapid fire type away from the bolter.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Correct, however there are people who claim that the Bolter is both Salvo and Rapid Fire, so you can choose the profile to use. This stance has no rules backing.

It has rules backing as nothing takes the rapid fire type away from the bolter.

And if you fire it as Rapid Fire, you are not treating the Bolter as a Salvo weapon.

 Happyjew wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Correct, however there are people who claim that the Bolter is both Salvo and Rapid Fire, so you can choose the profile to use. This stance has no rules backing.

It has rules backing as nothing takes the rapid fire type away from the bolter.

And if you fire it as Rapid Fire, you are not treating the Bolter as a Salvo weapon.

Yes you are, you are just not firing the Salvo type, you are firing the Rapid fire type, the weapon has two types.

The banner does not say you must fire it as Salvo.

I would have to side with the argument that they cease to function as rapid fire weapons. The SoD states that boltguns affected by it are "treated as salvo 2/4 weapons". This suggests that they are changed from rapid fire to salvo rather than gaining an additional weapon type.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Correct, however there are people who claim that the Bolter is both Salvo and Rapid Fire, so you can choose the profile to use. This stance has no rules backing.

It has rules backing as nothing takes the rapid fire type away from the bolter.

That's a lie as was proven in the last thread.

Feel free to re-read it.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Correct, however there are people who claim that the Bolter is both Salvo and Rapid Fire, so you can choose the profile to use. This stance has no rules backing.

It has rules backing as nothing takes the rapid fire type away from the bolter.

That's a lie as was proven in the last thread.

Feel free to re-read it.

I have read that last thread, and no rules state that Rapid fire is lost.

There is simply no rule that states rapid fire is lost.

If you disagree page and graph will suffice.

There's also no rule allowing a weapon to have more than one weapon type.

Page 50 "Type"
"A shooting weapon always has one of the following types:..."

One. No more. No less.

And even if a weapon did have more than one type, there's no rule allowing you to choose between the two. Choosing a weapon type simply isn't RAW, there's no rule covering it only guesswork and house ruling.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Correct, however there are people who claim that the Bolter is both Salvo and Rapid Fire, so you can choose the profile to use. This stance has no rules backing.

It has rules backing as nothing takes the rapid fire type away from the bolter.

That's a lie as was proven in the last thread.

Feel free to re-read it.

I have read that last thread, and no rules state that Rapid fire is lost.

There is simply no rule that states rapid fire is lost.

If you disagree page and graph will suffice.

And again you misstate rules.
Where is your permission for multiple types? You keep implying that it exists and have no support other than other weapons can do it. Since weapons can only have a single type (unless otherwise specified of course) you must have an exception. Page number will suffice - i can find the paragraph. Why are you not treating the weapon as Salvo? The rule does not say to treat the weapon as Rapid Fire/Salvo 2/4. How does it say to treat the weapon?

If one thing is treated as another thing then for all intensive purposes is that other thing.

 warpspider89 wrote:
If one thing is treated as another thing then for all intents and purposes is that other thing.

FTFY. Sorry, pet peeve.

No idea what it means.

 warpspider89 wrote:
No idea what it means.

You wrote "intensive purposes". The correct wording is "intents and purposes". Rigeld fixed it for you.

 grendel083 wrote:
There's also no rule allowing a weapon to have more than one weapon type.

Page 50 "Type"
"A shooting weapon always has one of the following types:..."

One. No more. No less.

And even if a weapon did have more than one type, there's no rule allowing you to choose between the two. Choosing a weapon type simply isn't RAW, there's no rule covering it only guesswork and house ruling.

Psycannons have two types so that is not always true.

rigeld2 wrote:
Where is your permission for multiple types?

in the rules.

Bolters are Rapid fire type True or False?

The banner treats Bolters within 6 inches as Salvo 2/4 True or False?

Nothing states that the Salvo replaces the current type, as there is nothing saying that Rapid Fire is lost.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
There's also no rule allowing a weapon to have more than one weapon type.

Page 50 "Type"
"A shooting weapon always has one of the following types:..."

One. No more. No less.

And even if a weapon did have more than one type, there's no rule allowing you to choose between the two. Choosing a weapon type simply isn't RAW, there's no rule covering it only guesswork and house ruling.

Psycannons have two types so that is not always true.

The Psycannon has a rule allowing it to choose between types. It is an exception (as there often is with most rules).
So where is the rule allowing a bolter to have two Types?
And then where is the rule allowing you to choose between them?
The Psycannon has these (further reinforcing the need for both), so where are these rules to be found?

Last time I checked, every weapon that has multiple profiles (Missile Launchers, Psycannons, etc) have specific permission to choose which profile they use (in most cases).

 DeathReaper wrote:
Bolters are Rapid fire type True or False?

The banner treats Bolters within 6 inches as Salvo 2/4 True or False?

Nothing states that the Salvo replaces the current type, as there is nothing saying that Rapid Fire is lost.

In order as you stated these:
True.
True.
False.

Let's use your own method.

1_ A Salvo 2/4 weapon fires one shot at full range. True or False?
2_ A Salvo weapon can fire at whatever range after the unit moved. True or False?
3_ You treat a weapon bye using it with its rules. True or False?
4_ So... If you move and fire one single shot at long range (both behaviours belonging to rapid fire weapons) you are treating the weapon as rapid fire, not as salvo.

[answer check]1_F - 2_F - 3_T - 4_T[/answer check]

 Kerrathyr wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Bolters are Rapid fire type True or False?

The banner treats Bolters within 6 inches as Salvo 2/4 True or False?

Nothing states that the Salvo replaces the current type, as there is nothing saying that Rapid Fire is lost.

In order as you stated these:
True.
True.
False.

Page and Graph for the false please, or you have no rules basis for answering false (Not that I asked a question about it).

 DeathReaper wrote:

Psycannons have two types so that is not always true.

It's almost like its possible to have specific exemptions to the rules...

rigeld2 wrote:
Where is your permission for multiple types?

in the rules.

Bolters are Rapid fire type True or False?

The banner treats Bolters within 6 inches as Salvo 2/4 True or False?

Nothing states that the Salvo replaces the current type, as there is nothing saying that Rapid Fire is lost.

I don't see a page number there which is what I asked for. Since you still can't come up with actual rules supporting your assertion (since there isn't anywhere that states Banner Bolters are an exception to the "only one type" rule) ill go ahead and thank you for conceding.

Why is this happening again? This debate comes down to reading comprehension. That is all it is.

rigeld2 wrote:

 warpspider89 wrote:
If one thing is treated as another thing then for all intents and purposes is that other thing.

FTFY. Sorry, pet peeve.

Thanks buddy! I didn't realize I'd been using that wrongly.

You wrote "intensive purposes". The correct wording is "intents and purposes". Rigeld fixed it for you.

Thanks for pointing that out. I appreciate it.

Though I may start using "intensive purposes" intently just to bug rigeld

 Happyjew wrote:
Though I may start using "intensive purposes" intently just to bug rigeld

I have a few frequent flier miles and some vacation time... I could "fix" that problem too :-)

rigeld2 wrote:

 Happyjew wrote:
Though I may start using "intensive purposes" intently just to bug rigeld

I have a few frequent flier miles and some vacation time... I could "fix" that problem too :-)

Cool, maybe we can get a game in first? Nids v Nids (with Eldar allies for giggles).

Ill let you know if I head up that way.

</offtopic>

DeathReaper wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:
There's also no rule allowing a weapon to have more than one weapon type.

Page 50 "Type"
"A shooting weapon always has one of the following types:..."

One. No more. No less.

And even if a weapon did have more than one type, there's no rule allowing you to choose between the two. Choosing a weapon type simply isn't RAW, there's no rule covering it only guesswork and house ruling.

Psycannons have two types so that is not always true.

rigeld2 wrote:
Where is your permission for multiple types?

in the rules.

Bolters are Rapid fire type True or False?

The banner treats Bolters within 6 inches as Salvo 2/4 True or False?

Nothing states that the Salvo replaces the current type, as there is nothing saying that Rapid Fire is lost.

This is the same broken type of logic you used last time we disagreed.
If you treat bolters as rapid fire are you treating them as salvo 2/4?

And no, they never actually stop being a rapid fire type, they just stops getting treated like them. Which is necessary to start treating them as salvo 2/4.

 Abandon wrote:
If you treat bolters as rapid fire are you treating them as salvo 2/4?

Yes, you are just not firing the Salvo profile.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 Kerrathyr wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Bolters are Rapid fire type True or False?

The banner treats Bolters within 6 inches as Salvo 2/4 True or False?

Nothing states that the Salvo replaces the current type, as there is nothing saying that Rapid Fire is lost.

In order as you stated these:
True.
True.
False.

Page and Graph for the false please, or you have no rules basis for answering false (Not that I asked a question about it).

It's nice that you skipped the last part of my post, which kind of "explained" why your third statement was false.

Let's try:
If I read the rules right:
Salvo 2/4 shoots at full range 4 shots, plus can not fire if moving.
Rapid Fire shoots at full range 1 shot, plus can fire if moving.

Since these two modes are quite incompatible(*), if you treat it (still) as rapid fire, you are not treating it as salvo.

(*) unless you may demonstrate to be able to shoot one shot that is four (or viceversa) or to be able to moving without moving (and marines can't hop on the spot ^^).

 Kerrathyr wrote:
It's nice that you skipped the last part of my post, which kind of "explained" why your third statement was false.

Except your number 4 was false, therefore your logic did not apply.

Let's try:
If I read the rules right:
Salvo 2/4 shoots at full range 4 shots, plus can not fire if moving.
Rapid Fire shoots at full range 1 shot, plus can fire if moving.

Since these two modes are quite incompatible(*), if you treat it (still) as rapid fire, you are not treating it as salvo.

(*) unless you may demonstrate to be able to shoot one shot that is four (or viceversa) or to be able to moving without moving (and marines can't hop on the spot ^^).

You treat the weapon as Salvo 2/4 Is this correct? (If you disagree Page and Graph for the rules)

Nothing in the rules takes away the Rapid Fire type correct? (If you disagree Page and Graph for the rules that take away Rapid Fire)

You are treating it as Salvo 2/4, The weapon is also Rapid Fire, as this is the base type and nothing takes this rule away from the weapon.