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The metal Max model has lines from the 3d printing process visible on most flat surfaces.

Interesting... I didn't notice that. I'll have to take a closer look. I didn't really examine him too closely due to the goofy pose and focused more on the miriya minis. The resins have a fair amount of flash on the larger pieces and my metal ones had a pitted surface but I don't think either were the fault of 3d printing.

It is more visible on the resin Miriya, but it is certainly there on the max model as well.

Those links aren't working!

Well, not for me anyway!

Same here but I figured it was just my phone browser not playing nice with the drop box links.

Sorry guys, try these:

https://flic.kr/p/p17h98

https://flic.kr/p/oHSSxF

Ah, yup, there they are. I'd say it is a bit more evident on max with the build up lines but I'm not sure where the whorls come from.

I am pretty sure those are also relics from the 3d printing process.

It is really weird stuff though. This is the first time I have ever seen it on a miniature. I'm actually not sure what to do about it. I could sand it down, but man that is going to take forever.

I think that is why the Painting Clinic guy said it took him three days to get the resin Miriya ready to paint.

Yeah, I can see it. If you want a quality paint job the prepwork is pretty intense on that fig. And the resin they used is more brittle than what I am used to.

Huh, that's very annoying. Thanks for posting the photos Swabby, they're very helpful. So has anyone been able to compare the rest of the detail with the plastic models? Right now the plastic models are looking like the way to go.

 Swabby wrote:
I am pretty sure those are also relics from the 3d printing process.

It is really weird stuff though. This is the first time I have ever seen it on a miniature. I'm actually not sure what to do about it. I could sand it down, but man that is going to take forever.

Yeah, those are layers of material from a 3d additive printer. It also shows they used a fairly low definition one, considering. Take a look at Paulson's prototypes to see the difference.

Jon cleans up intermediate masters, which is the right way of working. You generally can't just expect to cast straight off a print, unless it's from a very good (read frighteningly expensive) machine.
Edit; also his Zent pods were traditionally sculpted (and nicely too). Saved a lot of headaches with the curved surfaces.

winterdyne wrote:
Jon cleans up intermediate masters, which is the right way of working. You generally can't just expect to cast straight off a print, unless it's from a very good (read frighteningly expensive) machine.
Edit; also his Zent pods were traditionally sculpted (and nicely too). Saved a lot of headaches with the curved surfaces.

Actually, I was thinking about the prints he did for his KS, not about his Robotech prototypes.

The current style of prints I'm using for Mecha Front typically don't require clean up, they are usually able to be molded immediately without further work. They tend to run about $300ish compared to the $50-$100 for the objet/shapeways style print that the Robotech models have been printed in. IMO it's another example of their "good enough" attitude and keeping everything as cheap as possible. (even when they don't need to cut corners) My old style prints were the same material they are using, but I spent a considerable amount of time cleaning the masters before molding.

Basic level prints are fine for checking details part thickness etc, but if you are using the prints to make promo models from or using them to help market your game you should at least take the time to clean them up.

Presentation of your product matters, it's not like with $1.4+ million they can't afford a couple hundred dollars to get decent prints for the promo masters. Even with a pittance of a budget I manage to get quality prints but the difference is that I care about how my products look and only being "meh, good enough" doesn't fly with me. I prefer for my models to look properly finished, whereas PB just wants to scrape by with the lowest minimum standard that people will tollerate.

Still strikes me as more a matter of ignorance/ineptitude rather than moral turpitude.

As a supporter of your KS, I don't think you do yourself any favors deriding PB. After all, the relative quality of your work speaks for itself.

 Manchu wrote:
Still strikes me as more a matter of ignorance/ineptitude rather than moral turpitude.

Problem, I think, is that you can only justify that so many times. They should have wised up by now.

 Manchu wrote:
Still strikes me as more a matter of ignorance/ineptitude rather than moral turpitude.

I'm not sure how being dumb or incompetent is any better than being morally bankrupt when the end result is still that the consumer gets a subpar product. One might argue it's even worse since they keep repeating their mistakes all the time

There's also the fact that they declared from the start that they'd be minimizing/avoiding 'newbie' mistakes through working with experienced modelers in Ninja Division.

Even if that relationship has soured, there are untold hundreds and thousands of individuals and companies they could bring onboard to help. Even if they're feeling flat out burned by the whole situation with ND, that doesn't mean they can just wing it on a project of this scope, and one in which they've admitted minimal experience or expertise.

They also had a lot of big talk about the quality of their product, and raked in a ton of money while doing so. "Eh, good enough" isn't something I want to hear or see the results of after giving them a sizable chunk of cash. The talked a good talk, the onus is on them to act in a professional manner, which includes consulting experts.

 Forar wrote:
There's also the fact that they declared from the start that they'd be minimizing/avoiding 'newbie' mistakes through working with experienced modelers in Ninja Division.

Even if that relationship has soured, there are untold hundreds and thousands of individuals and companies they could bring onboard to help. Even if they're feeling flat out burned by the whole situation with ND, that doesn't mean they can just wing it on a project of this scope, and one in which they've admitted minimal experience or expertise.

They also had a lot of big talk about the quality of their product, and raked in a ton of money while doing so. "Eh, good enough" isn't something I want to hear or see the results of after giving them a sizable chunk of cash. The talked a good talk, the onus is on them to act in a professional manner, which includes consulting experts.

I'm not going to bother rewatching the video, but did you notice that the original pitch page doesn't mention Harmony Gold as a bunch of nitpicking fascists that are such a source of problems (50% or so, with ND being the other 50%).

And Forar, keep in mind that ND talked a good talk. Not PB. The moment the project fell to PB's control was when everything started to flounder.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
Still strikes me as more a matter of ignorance/ineptitude rather than moral turpitude.

Problem, I think, is that you can only justify that so many times. They should have wised up by now.

We're looking at an issue from the past.

Sining wrote:
I'm not sure how being dumb or incompetent is any better than being morally bankrupt when the end result is still that the consumer gets a subpar product.

You really don't understand the difference?

 Forar wrote:
"Eh, good enough" isn't something I want to hear or see the results of after giving them a sizable chunk of cash.

"Good enough" is not something PB said; that is Jon Paulson criticizing PB. Keep a hold on reality, Forar.

Merijeek wrote:
And Forar, keep in mind that ND talked a good talk. Not PB. The moment the project fell to PB's control was when everything started to flounder.

I'm not sure about the flounder part but I think you make a good point about ND. Unlike anyone at PB, Cadice is pretty good at PR (I remember him doing damage control around Tentacle Bento, for example) and I doubt there would be quite as much despondence if he was still managing communication with backers.

 Manchu wrote:

Sining wrote:
I'm not sure how being dumb or incompetent is any better than being morally bankrupt when the end result is still that the consumer gets a subpar product.

You really don't understand the difference?

The difference is that the former can (and should be) learned from, the latter is unlikely to change. The former they should've learned from by now (IMO).

To be bluntly honest, there are no mistakes that PB have made that couldn't have been avoided easily with a few hours' research and proper thought. I have bugbears with poor project management (specifically in planning phases), stemming from my past in software development.

also, it depends on your definition of "Good Enough".

Paulson's definition equates in my mind to "Holy Cow, that's good!"

PB's definition equates to "Holy Cow-Pat, I did better than that on my first attempt at casting resin!"

PB have continually talked up their product whilst talking down anyone who has a valid criticism, or that they can blame for any failure - concerned backers get ignored or banned, "Customs only stop 15% of containers, so ours won't be stopped - hell, customs have done the dirty on us by wanting to inspect our container, so we won't be able to break our promise to the backers and sell before sending to them!"

Paulson does not need to talk up his product, it speaks for itself!

So I'm sorry if the possibility that PB are just dumb jerks that don't know the value of a dollar, and keep dropping the masters on the floor, and can't get a grown-up to assemble and paint a few models for them to use as demo-fodder or take some pictures of the professionally made and painted ones they have for publicity, does not excite me more than the fact that they may be money-grabbing donkey-caves that are doing the minimum they can to allow them to take the rest of the money and run.

From a start of over hyped quality, and almost immediate transfer to manufacturing, they could almost be guilty of offences under trades descriptions legislation. Not that anyone believed their promise of early delivery at the end of the campaign - unless you believed they meant early 2015.

All their efforts seem to have been on core boxes of IP base units, rules, etc. Why have they done nothing at all on the resin stuff that was promised? Things like the SDF-1 model, and the SDF-1 game tiles, which were stated to be resin products are not going to be worked on by the same people. They could have been worked on at the same time, but we have had no news at all on any of them. Wave 1 could easily have been "Core boxes, units that are also in the core boxes, and the first set of resin stuff." Knowing my luck, the SDF-1 would have been a wave 2 item anyway, but at least some people could have had more. In fact, if they'd had people working on the resin stuff, I bet we could have had wave 1 and wave 2 of the resin already given the limited number going out and the time frame involved.

I'm not trying to get into an "I can do better argument", I was pointing out that for a very minimal investment they could have gotten a much better quality of print to use as their masters. The 3d modeling on them is fine but it's knocked back in quality due to the printing quality. A few hours with sand paper or an extra $500 investment would have meant the promos would have been far superior model and created more buzz. It's not like they would be hurting their budget and with promo sales at Gen Con they'd make their money back on that immediately.

I look at the stuff which Ninja Division produces on their own and their sculpts are a quality product, so it's not their norm to take a step down in quality for promo and display pieces. That largely seems to be calls made from their partners PB/HG.


The "good enough" phrase is something people have been expressing on facebook and KS as a lot of people are less then impressed. (Not just my opinion alone) It may not be the worst thing ever, IMO it's "ok" as far as gaming stuff goes but its certainly nothing to shout about from the mountain tops.

Indeed. I reckon with a skilled modeller doing the assembly and painting a much better reception would have been had. As is they cut corners where it mattered more than they should have.

 Manchu wrote:
["Good enough" is not something PB said; that is Jon Paulson criticizing PB. Keep a hold on reality, Forar.

I am perfectly aware that they haven't said it. I'm basing that on the results of what we're seeing in updates, from Gencon, from the unboxing videos, from BS beginning to build his figures, and more. They aren't saying it, but they sure seem to be showing it.

The general consensus has been 'the Zentraedi forces look pretty good, the RDF could use another revision or five" for half a year now, and time has not sweetened it.

Look at that Guardian and tell me somebody walked away knowing they'd done 'mouth watering' work. For all the talk of 'omg we don't want to compromise quality, it'll be done when it's done', it sure looks like some of those uncut corners have trim marks on them in the rush to make Gencon (so close guys, so close...).

Edit: and in working with a friend who has gone into business for herself, some of those choices remain absolutely baffling. My friend pays professional photographers to take quality shots of her products (Pertinent: my signature), for them it's "we got Wayne to grab a camera and snap some blurry pics and then the battery died oh well enjoy!" They continue to stumble at marketing their works, despite having been in business longer than my friend has been alive.

Delay of 8 months- good enough
Miniatures with 20 parts or more - good enough
Miniatures with seams - good enough
Miniatures with lines/ridges - good enough

Oh joy, I can't wait for what else is good enough -_- I hope my mouth has enough water

Not to throw conspiracy theories, but despite saying that shipping began nearly a week ago, I've yet to see anyone say they've actually gotten tracking information on a box yet.

Which is to say that we only have their word on it that things are shipping.

Until tracking info goes out, and/or people start chiming in to say they've received boxes, I remain skeptical.

Note: due to being at Fan Expo for most of the past week, my online presence has been pretty minimal. If anyone HAS posted such information, I'd be glad to hear it.

I will agree that PB should have used a better painting service and gotten some professional pics taken.