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ok, so I've been building an elfzilla list, and cant decide on what the best psychic discipline is for eldrad?

eldar powers, telepathy, or divination are the three he can use i believe, like i said, new to eldar.
im leanimg towardz telepathy, but any advice or insight in this would be greatly appreciated.

Usually in an MC heavy Eldar list you are better off sticking with the codex powers tbh. The codex Eldar powers are still pretty good, Fortune is amazing for lynchpin units (Avatar, JetCouncil, Wraithguard blocks), Doom is imo the best support power in the game (tied with Guide/Prescience, to hit re-rolls are more useful but Doom works for your entire army including allies) and Guide is just a weaker version of Prescience. Mind War and Eldritch Storm are pretty terrible, but its rarely an issue since you can't cast that many powers per turn anyway. If you have an Avatar then once he has Fortune up he can take on basically anything in the game (just has to be careful against weapons which cause ID that aren't Force weapons), and if you are running a blob of Wraithguard (depends on your definition of Elfzilla) then Fortuning them makes shooting them a waste of time (T6 with 3+ re-rollable and re-rollable 4+ cover in the open if you have the Baron + Conceal).

If you aren't taking units which seriously benefit from Fortune (light infantry heavy, or in a allied list with Tau) then Divination is your next best option. Telepathy has some very nice powers so you might consider a roll or two if you get exactly what you want with your first couple of rolls on Divination, but they tend to be more offensive rather than buff based and a bit more random in there effects.

can you roll them one at a time like that?

 zachwho wrote:
can you roll them one at a time like that?

The psyhic powers from the BRB? yes you have to roll them one at a time as you have to choose for each roll whether to swap for the primis or not each time.

I'd stick with book powers.

Keeping fortune on an avatar is too useful, and then you've got doom to throw into any melee that comes about. You can also chuck fortune on a Lord that's likely to be targetted. Give it a 5+ cover save, and suddenly your opponent might think about which target to shoot at.

Hmmm, thanks for all this info. I'vealways played khorne chaos, so eldar, including psychic powers are very new to me.

basic run down of the listh:
avatar
eldrad
3x da squads in waves
3x guardian squads
3x wraithlords

so, any other tips?

If you really want an Elfzilla list then you must find some way to buy/steal/make a 10 strong wraithguard squad.

Also a squad of harlequins is critical so that you can cut those big bada$$es out of combat.

well i was going to add either a foot council or wraithguard squad at 2500, but idk which is better with the 2k list? :/

Personally, the best thing about Eldrad is the ability to cast one power twice. Nothing in the BRB gives you Fortune and you can't mix and match. Also, if you get a power from the BRB that costs 2 warp points to cast, your ditching Eldrad's ability to cast the same power twice because he can only have 3 warp charges. IMO, Eldrad is best with the codex powers (casting Fortune twice and then Guide on a Wraithlord or something). But Divination is /really/ hot. Thus, a second Farseer who pays the points to buy four powers from the Codex and then transfers them into 4 rolls on the Divination list.

For my list (with clowns and Wraithguard), this is the best option. I shoot for the 4+ Invuln save (since you roll, it is never a given), cast it on the Guard (and thus both HQs) and then have Eldrad Fortune it and Fortune the Clowns. I then use two Lords and Guide one and use Prescience on the other. My 3rd heavy slot is either 3 scatter laser warwalkers or another Lord. I move the Lords behind the Guard to give them a cover save, and the Clowns behind as well.

For your list... know that psykers can not use powers in a vehicle. The only exception is shooting powers through firing ports and Eldar vehicles have no firing ports. So Eldrad is going to have to be in a Guardian squad and you probably want that squad within 12" of the Avatar to make them Fearless. This will allow you to keep Fortune up on the Avatar, but Fortune on a Guardian squad that might not even get a cover save is kinda worthless. The problem is the Guardians are pretty damn fragile and kind of expensive so your going to need a lot of them to keep Eldrad alive. This is why most people run a 10 man squad of Wraithguard.

Every Guardian squad will want to have a Warlock with a Spirithelm in it to make sure they are close to a Wraithlord and to give you the biggest coverage. Nothing kills this list more than your Lords not doing something for a turn.

Every Lord will want two different weapons and flamers. EML+BL is a popular option, but setting one up with a Scatter Laser and Shuri Cannon for anti-hoard can be effective. The big weakness of the Lords is the lack of a Invuln save. That T8 means nothing when a Lascannon hit him and they are so big that your not going to be getting cover saves. Besides, you will want to be moving them up with your Avatar and Eldrad to keep them in range for the Spirit helm and for psychic powers like Guide. They are also kinda fragile in CC due to only having two attacks, but they are Str 10 without Smash. Smash is wasted on them because they are already Str 10.

The Avatar... he is OK and he has to get into melee as soon as possible because he is also lascannon bait. If that is what you got, it is what you got.

You have /nothing/ for anti-aircraft. Get a ADL with a Icarus LC (you might as will kill a flyer a turn). Then get a 5 man squad of Fire Dragons and pimp out the Exarch. Get both of his powers as he is probably one of the best gunners in the game for that thing. Use your other 4 Fire Dragons to protect a home objective camping Guardian squad with a platform from DSing Terminators and the like. Personally I like the flamer on him for free, but whatever. Just remember if he fired the Icarus using the Intercept rule, he can fire his own weapon normally on his turn... he just can't fire the Icarus.

Good luck...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I run Wraithguard AND Clowns at 1850pts. If your running a 2k point list, your gonna get crushed hard if you fight anyone with more than 3 Lascannons, much less at 2500+ where you could be facing Apoc stuff like Titians and super heavies. You have two guys on your entire list with a Invuln save, and they are your HQs.

Don't play against DE.

I play DE and dabble in Eldar. Avatars and Wraithlords are two of my favorite units. It makes me sad to poison them to death.

Against most armies, all that high toughness will cause fits though.

I like the wraithguard/harlie combo, I've seen it work great against other armies... but there are strong rumors that new wraithguard are coming out in June. I'd hold off on them for now.

 zachwho wrote:
Hmmm, thanks for all this info. I'vealways played khorne chaos, so eldar, including psychic powers are very new to me.

basic run down of the listh:
avatar
eldrad
3x da squads in waves
3x guardian squads
3x wraithlords

so, any other tips?

Well aside from the 'wait a month or two and hopefully Eldar get a new codex', Serpents are painfully overpriced now and mixing fast mech units with big slow MCs has never been a good plan either. Most lists running 3 Lords + an Avatar also run Wraithguard + Guardians + 2 units of Jetbikes to grab objectives (sinces doing that in a Serpent doesn't really work anywhere near as well). If you run Wraithguard you either bring the Baron (ally in Dark Eldar, him + 5 naked Warriors is 150pts) to give them Hit and Run (as well as Stealth and +1 to go first) or enough combat punch to get them out of combat (Karandras or Fuegan). I've been very successful with a variation on this build which uses Grey Knight allies, which gives it great mid range firepower and a very solid midfield presence. Btw just as a rough ballpark I would say that list is closer to 1500 than 2k, 800ish for the Troops, 450ish for the Lords, 350ish for HQ, is only 1600pts (thats with expensive loadouts on the Lords and Serpents) so you still have room to expand anyway.

@BlkTom. There is absolutely nothing that implicitly prevents psykers from using psychic powers inside of vehicles. Most rulebook powers require LOS, which means they can't cast them from inside a vehicle with no fire points (except on themselves or the vehicle they are in, since they always have LOS to those), but using a PSA out of a Rhino is fine. The ONLY specific exception to this rule (that isn't covered by LOS or other such restrictions) is that Eldar psykers were FAQed so that they couldn't even attempt to cast ANY of the psychic powers from the Eldar codex when inside of a vehicle. They can still use rulebook powers inside a vehicle where appropriate, highlighting how stupid this ruling was.
Considering the way this kind of list plays you really don't need that many psykers to cover Wraithsight, when everything is in a solid block moving up the field everything tends to overlap anyway. I do fine with a single Spiritseer + Eldrad running 2-3 Lords, put them at opposite ends of the unit and you cover more than enough space.
T8 doesn't exactly mean nothing when Lascannons hit you, its still 3's to wound which is almost never going to happen to S9. Remember you just need to stick a toe into cover and you get a 5+ cover now, and 25% coverage means you can easily give them cover with Wraithguard now (even normal infantry do it sometimes depending on the position of the firing models).
The Fire Dragon Exarch works best with the Quad Gun, not the Lascannon. You get far more mileage out of Tank Hunters and Ignore Cover on a multi shot weapon, you can reliably blow any AV11 or AV10 flier out of the sky with the Quad Gun since you should always do 3 HPs. A Lascannon is only a single shot, and it has to pen (which it probably will) and then get a 5+ to drop something. The Quad Gun with ignore cover is also a very potent tool against infantry as well, Crack Shot also gives re-rolls to wound, so against anything not in Power armour you are rolling 2's with re-rolls followed by 2's (or 3's) with re-rolls and it just goes straight through. You can absolutely ruin stuff like Guard Heavy Weapon teams and Command Squads, and its amazing for dealing with stuff like Biovores and Hive Guard as well. If you want to run the Lascannon then you are better off taking a Dark Reaper Exarch, since then you can fire it twice.

Q: The Farseer Psychic Powers rules state that they do not require the
Eldar Psyker to have line of sight to the target. Does this mean that they
can be used by an Eldar psyker embarked on a Transport? (p28)
A: No.

Read the FAQ. Book powers don't really matter in this case as he would be silly to get them with just Eldrad. Then congratulations, he is buffing a unit that isn't getting shot anyways.

As for the Quad gun... really? AV 10-11? I am sure you can name a bunch of them, but the real flyers he will be facing are AV 12 and if he can't deal with them, what is the point of getting a ADL then anyways? And why would you waste BS 5 by shooting at ground targets? Skyfire says that you need 6s to hit when shooting at ground targets. I will point out that with a Icarus, he needs a 4+ to pen AV 12 and a 4+ to wreck/destroy due to AP 2 and a +1 on the chart. That is one kill a turn where with the Quad you need a 6 to pen AV 12 and a 5-6 to Wreck/Destroy. Oh, for 15pts more to boot.

Dark Reaper is second best because he can Fire twice, but I prefer Tank Hunters to make sure I get that Pen, because after that I blow it up 50% of the time. Dark Reaper is also two to three times more expensive and takes up a heavy slot that he can not afford to lose. The good thing about him is that he can fire his weapon normally after using the gun on Intercept fire.

I vote BRB powers. Double fortune is always worth it.

I run Elfzilla too in a format very similar to the one posted above to great success (mostly - hard counters are out there for most builds). Usually I find a second Farseer to be superior to an Avatar.

I recommend BL & EML on all WL. It gives you much needed ranged anti-tank that can, in theory, take on any armor and it helps with the Alpha Strike. BS4 + being able to snipe & instagib T4 characters is a bonus too! Not to mention that the WL still have two ways to deal with hordes: (1) two flamers & (2) charge them & bog them in combat forever - works against most things well not just horde - the harlies can always free the WL.

Edit: if you do get WG then I have two recommendations for using them: (1) control the center of the board - they can hold it, there are usually objectives there, and that's where their guns will likely see the most use - you can also push from there into your enemy's ranks effectively & (2) be bold - charge the enemy with the WG if you see an opportunity present itself - it means your guns are in range so you can spray at full firepower, the mass S5 attacks devestates esp with the right spell support, and the Harlies should be right on your tail to free you from the fight.

A third option should you have access to it, is the Wraithseer. As Forge World is now allowed in most cases its something to consider as its another T8 model with an invul save and can give your wraithguard a 4+ FNP... or itself. It also has some synergistic benefit with your other WLords and WGuard. Its a bit pricy at 30 points more than an Avatar stock, and you can buy weapon upgrades as well, including a D-Cannon, though for some reason doesn't have flamers...

This is what I am using as my anvil... and as hard as it is, it can hurt more than a hammer when thrown at things.

SaganGree wrote:
A third option should you have access to it, is the Wraithseer. As Forge World is now allowed in most cases its something to consider as its another T8 model with an invul save and can give your wraithguard a 4+ FNP... or itself. It also has some synergistic benefit with your other WLords and WGuard. Its a bit pricy at 30 points more than an Avatar stock, and you can buy weapon upgrades as well, including a D-Cannon, though for some reason doesn't have flamers...

This is what I am using as my anvil... and as hard as it is, it can hurt more than a hammer when thrown at things.

Here is hoping they throw that in the new codex.

SaganGree wrote:
A third option should you have access to it, is the Wraithseer... It also has some synergistic benefit with your other WLords and WGuard.

It gives any wraithconstruct -1 to enemy cover saves. Bikes love krak missiles that -1 from cover

The real benefits from Eldrad run with him taking the Eldar Psychic powers.

If you really want to roll in the BRB, point for point you are best off using two Farseers.

 BlkTom wrote:

Q: The Farseer Psychic Powers rules state that they do not require the
Eldar Psyker to have line of sight to the target. Does this mean that they
can be used by an Eldar psyker embarked on a Transport? (p28)
A: No.

Read the FAQ. Book powers don't really matter in this case as he would be silly to get them with just Eldrad. Then congratulations, he is buffing a unit that isn't getting shot anyways.

As for the Quad gun... really? AV 10-11? I am sure you can name a bunch of them, but the real flyers he will be facing are AV 12 and if he can't deal with them, what is the point of getting a ADL then anyways? And why would you waste BS 5 by shooting at ground targets? Skyfire says that you need 6s to hit when shooting at ground targets. I will point out that with a Icarus, he needs a 4+ to pen AV 12 and a 4+ to wreck/destroy due to AP 2 and a +1 on the chart. That is one kill a turn where with the Quad you need a 6 to pen AV 12 and a 5-6 to Wreck/Destroy. Oh, for 15pts more to boot.

Dark Reaper is second best because he can Fire twice, but I prefer Tank Hunters to make sure I get that Pen, because after that I blow it up 50% of the time. Dark Reaper is also two to three times more expensive and takes up a heavy slot that he can not afford to lose. The good thing about him is that he can fire his weapon normally after using the gun on Intercept fire.

Sigh. Its fun arguing with people who don't know rules. You stated that psychic powers cannot be used from inside a vehicle, which is incorrect. I stated that as per the FAQ (which you then repeated back to me) the only limitation is that psychic powers from the Eldar codex (i.e Fortune/Doom etc, a more specific limitation) cannot be used from inside a transport.

The majority of fliers are AV11, a few are AV10 and three are AV12. The most common flier is the Night Scythe because Necrons can get them as dedicated transports, and Necrons are all over the top tables at tournaments. The Quad Gun and the Icarus both have Interceptor in case you didn't realise (its half the reason they are so helpful, since you get a chance to hit fliers before they hit you), and Interceptor lets you fire at ground targets with full BS. So yes Quad Guns absolutely wreck light infantry ground targets (and light armour for that matter). Also I have no idea how you are killing a vehicle on a 4+ on the damage table, AP2 from the Lascannon gives you +1, Tank Hunters lets you re-roll to pen but hasn't given +1 on the chart for two (?) editions. So the actual Mathhammer for completeness:
The Lascannon, 1 shot with 2's to hit is, 0.83 hits with 4+ to Pen (ignoring glances since its only a single shot so won't kill anything), is 0.416 Pens and then 5+ to kill is 0.14 - 14% chance to kill in a single round of shooting.
The Quad Gun, 4 shots with 2's to hit with re-rolls is 3.889 hits, 5+ to damage with a re-roll gives you 1.08 glances and 1.08 Pens which works out as an 18% chance of getting a kill from the Pen (purely because you do more hits/damage results with more shots). However that doesn't even factor in the chances of rolling well on the penetration roll and getting 3 glances/pens (reasonable odds with 4 hits needing 5's with re-rolls), which also kills any flier around. You also have to throw in factors like 5+ invulnerables on the Heldrake, which gives it a 1/3 chance of stopping the Lascannon cold, but the Quad Gun can get more than one damage result which gives it an edge. Essentially you end up with the Quad Gun being slightly more effective at dropping AV12 fliers (at the very least its going to seriously mess it up) than the Lascannon, but due to the extra shots it is far more reliable at doing so (4 shots, rerolling everything has a much lower variance than a single shot). Its also deal with AV11 and AV10 fliers better and is more flexible and effective against ground targets. Really not much of a contest imo.

AP 2 gives you a +1 on the roll, so if you roll a 4, it now equals a wreck. 5+ is a explosion. The vehicle is taken out on a 4+ now and that is all that matters. As for flyer spam, IG are still king. You have to assume your facing Vendettas and they are AV 12. Also Eldar need the Lascannon more than the Quad gun. Eldar are kind of the masters of the Str 6 shot, so they have plenty. What they really need is AA, and the ADL is the only way to get it, and the best route is still the Icarus because of the pen and damage chart. I mean, you even mentioned the +1 from the AP 2... am I missing something here where that 1d6 for the chart doesn't turn into a 1d6+1? Does a wreck not equal a destroyed vehicle in your eyes?

As for the BRB powers in a transport, does it really matter? I feel my point still stands and if you have Eldrad, your better off with the Eldar book powers and they can't be used in a transport.

You have me on the Intercept+Skyfire. I re-read it and see my friends and I have been playing it wrong. Thank you for getting it through my thick skull and my apologies.

 BlkTom wrote:
The vehicle is taken out on a 4+

Incorrect. A 5 of the vehicle damage chart = immobilized. It does not wreck the vehicle.

back to the topic....

i don't like wraithguard for one reason.... helldrakes.

i run them in my chaos list, played a guy in a local tournament, he had a large troop squad of wraith guard, i knew that was 300+ points of his army gone. now i know its closer to 400 points. fly on activate demonforge, remove wraithguard.

sooo i don't think i can justify their costs atm.

Three words: rerollable 4+ invulnerable

fromwhat? thewarlock? are you kidding me? hardly a tank.

Jesus... getting my ass handed to me today... Ok, I mis-read the chart. I thought Flyers were immobilized and that equaled wrecked. I swear I read that somewhere, concerning the zoom rules or something. I no longer care at this point, as I am probably wrong on that as well and it is to late for me to dig up something that might save a shred of credibility. I will look it up again later.

Forewarning from the Divination school gives you a 4+ Invuln save. You use your second HQ slot as a Farseer who buys as many book powers as your willing to get (I shoot for the 4 cheapest) and then burn them for Four rolls on the Divination table (should run you around 180pts with all the gear you need). You then run Eldrad and place both the Divination Farseer and Eldrad as part of the Wraithguard (I run my Warlock with Conceal just incase I fail my Divination roll for Forewarning). The Farseer casts his 3 powers and Eldrad puts Fortune up on the Wraithguard unit and a second unit (clowns for example). The shared Toughness rule will actually really help those guys as well... I believe.

This is why, IMO, the superior HQ choice for Eldar are Eldrad and a second Farseer and why it is important for Eldrad to keep the Codex powers. He is the lynchpin. Then fill with Heavies for long range fire support and as many of the 5 remaining troop slots that you can afford. But others seem to have success with other lists, but it is hard to not run Eldrad in a list. For right now, till the new codex comes out this might be the best build Eldar have... but it is very focused. I think there are other builds that can work, but it is hard. I think the Codex is still viable, but it is really showing it's age.

iok, so I'm spending almost half of my army on eldrad a farseer and wraithguard ( that's almost 800 points) to do what? completely annihilate one unit a turn?

it's still super slow, and susceptible to getting tarpited, i just cant see how giving up the avatar for a second farseer and huge point sink is worth it??

but then again i am new to eldar and just learning them, but i figured having alot of fearless guardians (from the avatar) would be better fire suppourt.

Yeah... that is the rub right now is the cost and movement. But hey, if your looking at doing a 2k list you should be able to afford it. Though Clowns or Scorpions with a Claw can bail them out of CC as an option, there is another Divination power (Foreboding) that gives them Counter Attack and full BS on Over-watch... so people are not going to really enjoy assaulting them if you get that power.

As for giving up the Avatar for a second Farseer you already answered your own question. Your now running a 20 man blob of Storm or regular Guardians which is pushing 200pts and what is protecting them? 5+ armor saves or maybe a 5+ cover save if you spend the points on a Conceal Warlock (which you should do anyways)? But yeah... as you will see the Eldar /really/ lack armor and Invuln saves except for a few units and no one really has both besides a rare HQ (Asurmen and maybe a few othe PLs?). This is why Jetbike Seer councils are the 5th Ed Deathstar, because they had the Invuln save built in. But Eldrad can not ride a bike, so you would run that with a vanilla jetbike Farseer with Fortune and maybe Guide/Doom. The Avatar needs a Farseer to survive because he needs Fortune to give him a re-roll on that Invuln save. But you now want to keep that Farseer alive, somehow.

The trick is getting a unit to survive long enough to get in range to shoot or get in CC. Reserve Jetbike units, Warp Spiders, Swooping Hawks and DA in vehicles may work fine. But if your walking across the board with a Melee unit like the Avatar, he really needs support and he is dictating how your list is going to be built. If you want to keep him Fortuned, then you need a Farseer or Eldrad. Now you have to keep them alive. If your doing 3 Lords, you want psykers for Wraithsight and to make sure it is redundant so one guy isn't taken out and your list is done. Then what happens when /they/ get attacked in melee? It is how the codex was built, overlapping cover of weaknesses. But now Terminators are king in 6th. Not only do you have to be able to defeat 2+ armor, but everyone is rocking plasma to counter it. Since you don't have 2+ armor, you have to bank on units with Cover saves and Invuln saves to weather the fire and be able to take on Terminators. Closest thing Eldar have to that are Wraithguard... but they need a Cover or invuln save, and psyker powers are the only answer to that. It is just kinda to the point of if you don't do psykers your fighting a uphill battle with Eldar.

Can it be done? Yeah... but it is not easy. Eldrad and a Foot Council might work to run with your Avatar, but your still pushing 800pts (or over on a 10 man squad) and it isn't even a scoring unit. Throw that 200pt blob of Guardians with it and your pushing 1k without your 3x Wraithlords and other troop selections. Maybe four squads of Guardians at roughly 135pts each with a weapon platform (EML?) and a Embolden Warlock might leave you enough to kit out your three Wraithlords at 155pts each (BL+EML) to spend the other 1k point to bring you up to 2k... and you still do not have a answer for AA besides sending a lot of shots at the flyer at 6s.

To bad Eldrad can't be on a jetbike... 3+ armor and T4 with TLed catapults? *sighs*

If you do 2k (double FOC) you can use the wraithseer as a 4th wraithlord or instead of one (to keep points down). You then get to cast 4+fnp on a wraithguard unit or lord. Add a phoenix lord for challenges. Take 2 x 3 man squads of jetbikes (as cheap obj grabbers), take another couple of troops of your choice and fill up to full on your heavy support choices. If you want to use allies, if you take DE you can have another cheap scoring unit in a venom and add the baron to the wraithguard - giving them hit and run and defensive grenades.
I was going to do this myself, but with the new 'dex potentially just around the corner I'm saving my cash for possible new units.

 zachwho wrote:
iok, so I'm spending almost half of my army on eldrad a farseer and wraithguard ( that's almost 800 points) to do what? completely annihilate one unit a turn?

Only if that unit is 3 or fewer guys even.

IME (on using a 10 man wraithguard squad, with eldrad and a farseer, backed up by wraithlords and maybe a wraithseer) - Any unit in range at the start of your turn is screwed. Bar massive horde blobs.
The point of wraithwall is to draw fire. You can shoot at it all day when it's got a 2+ re-rollable cover save from invisibilty. If you're playing BA or Chaos you need to watch out for st6 ap 3 flamers, so you take the 4++ from divination and re-roll it. You'll lose a few more than using invis, but not too many hopefully.
Vehicles (inc fliers) are dead if they end their turn in range.
TEQ's don't normally have more than 5 men in a squad - with guide, doom and ap2 weapons thats really not a problem.
MEQ's get really hammered to the point of the squad being almost useless.
Whatever is left takes charges from the 2 wraithlords I leave to support them.

It's effective at keeping hold of your own objective. The rest of your army needs as many big guns as it can and fast, mobile troops to make up for the wraithwall point sink.

The more MSU you make an eldar army, the less useful farseers are. Fortuning 2 of 3 wraithlords doesnt help when they just shoot the un-fortuned one. If you want to take eldrad and toss him in a vehicle, swap powers. If you plan to walk him with another squad, keep the codex powers for fortune on that unit.

Wraithguard are a distraction unit. The better your opponent, the worse the unit does. If he shoots your entire army down, assaults with 2 or more units (only 1 overwatch), or simply runs away from them, the unit becomes a massive point sink. 18" threat range is pretty poor seeing how the meta is fast changing towards speedy assault and gunlines.

You also have these problems besides being slow and expensive:
No invis
No perfect timing (ADL+G2G= you kill 1 model a round)
No forwarning (S5+ and AP3+ in melee butcher you, helldrakes, markerlights, or anything on their side with AP3+ perfect timing)
No forboding (more prone to assault)

Now all of these also have the problem that you can only cast two a turn from your farseer. Your opponent can take advantage of what you have no cast. You cast invis and forewarning? He assaults you or just goes to ground. ect. There there are psychic defenses(SW, eldar), failing to cast, losing the farseer to poor positioning, or anything else that might occur during a game. Really the WG unit is a trap for newer players.