Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Indeed. Kirk basically put the smack down on him with a pipe.

 Frazzled wrote:
Indeed. Kirk basically put the smack down on him with a pipe.

I thought that was what he was doing with the two cat chicks at the beginning of the movie.

I laughed so hard AT THAT

The augments in Enterprise were superhuman also.

The only reason Khan was 'human' level in TOS is due to the lack of good special effects. He did stop a door from closing/locking on the Enterprise and brute force it open is memory serves in TOS.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Indeed. Kirk basically put the smack down on him with a pipe.

I thought that was what he was doing with the two cat chicks at the beginning of the movie.

OK, I was actually referring to STOS "Space Seed" but I like yours better.

Khan was like Captain America "ultimate human" superheroic in TOS. Way beyond everyone else. Kirk beats him with a pipe on (in D&D terms) being high level, having lots of hit points, and rolling some nat 20s. Spock could take him on because he's superhuman too. They turned Khan up to 11 in this one, but I liked him a lot.

I really like the way the characters are handled in this series. All the core characters are done a great deal of justice, and the Spock/Kirk contrast remains the center, the contrast between our hearts and our minds and how they conflict even when driven by the same ideals and principles.

I also liked this one better than Iron Man: 3. It has some holes and issues, but less egregious ones, for my money. The time & distance things were a bit odd, but I kind of accepted the "we can get anyone on the phone from anywhere" thing as a conceit for the setting. My main thought was that some events were big enough that they could have used a bit more time & space to be expanded on.

 Mannahnin wrote:
Khan was like Captain America "ultimate human" superheroic in TOS. Way beyond everyone else. Kirk beats him with a pipe on (in D&D terms) being high level, having lots of hit points, and rolling some nat 20s. Spock could take him on because he's superhuman too. They turned Khan up to 11 in this one, but I liked him a lot.

I really like the way the characters are handled in this serious. All the core characters are done a great deal of justice, and the Spock/Kirk contrast remains the center, the contrast between our hearts and our minds and how they conflict even when driven by the same ideals and principles.

I also liked this one better than Iron Man: 3. It has some holes and issues, but less egregious ones, for my money.

I remember in the original series, Spock was putting dents in the Enterprise bulkheads with his fists, so I was hoping for a better showing between him and Khan. That said, I liked the way they reversed Spock and Kirk's positions with the reactor scene. I think the franchise got far better with the second movie.

@Mannahnin Definitely better than Iron Man 3.

Well, just saw it this past weekend. I thought it was awesome. I am not a trekkie, however, so I am not comparing it to ToS or any of the others.

One thing I must say: J.J. Abrams makes Star Trek damn emotional! I hardly ever get teary while watching films, but there are moments in both the first movie and Into Darkness that had the man-tears welling in the corners of my eyes a bit. The bit between Spock and Kirk on opposite sides of the reactor door was surprisingly moving, though I could have done without the "Khaaaann!" after Kirk "dies."
I think the fact that Spock is usually so cool and calculated makes the moments when he loses control i.e. chasing down and beating the gak out of Khan, watching Kirk die, all the more visceral.



In space no one can save you from the feels.

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Well, just saw it this past weekend. I thought it was awesome. I am not a trekkie, however, so I am not comparing it to ToS or any of the others.

One thing I must say: J.J. Abrams makes Star Trek damn emotional! I hardly ever get teary while watching films, but there are moments in both the first movie and Into Darkness that had the man-tears welling in the corners of my eyes a bit. The bit between Spock and Kirk on opposite sides of the reactor door was surprisingly moving, though I could have done without the "Khaaaann!" after Kirk "dies."
I think the fact that Spock is usually so cool and calculated makes the moments when he loses control i.e. chasing down and beating the gak out of Khan, watching Kirk die, all the more visceral.



In space no one can save you from the feels.

I actually liked Spock doing that along with the whole way the Spock and Kirk parts flipped from the earlier episodes with Khan. As good as Sherlock was playing Khan, and he did a bang up job, Ricardo Montalban still owns that role.

I liked it and will buy the DVD, just like the first one.

Khan literally a trained "killer". Spock not a trained "killer". Only thing that separated Spock from Khan was sheer emotions. The few times I saw Khan face during the fight I thought he was thinking "DAMN Vulcan STAY DOWN"

Raging Vulcans are a very dangerous thing, which is why they suppress them.

 d-usa wrote:
Raging Vulcans are a very dangerous thing, which is why they suppress them.

That right there. Don't piss off a Vulcan, especially during mating season.

While Spock isn't SPecial Forces or anything, he does have military hand-to-hand training I would imagine. Mix some knowledge and experience fighting with being an angry Vulcan and I can buy that he would be able to stand up to Khan, for a bit at least.

Vulcans are also physically stronger and sturdier than the typical human.

Not only stronger and sturdier.

Martial arts are an integral part of Vulcan culture. ALL Vulcans train, to some degree or another, in Maritial arts. The Neck Pinch is a prime example - this isn't some random Vulcan trick, it's a carefully trained and thought-out martial arts technique for disabling an opponent without hurting him. One trains with it EXTENSIVELY in the process of learning it.

And never forget, Vulcan's affinty for logic and peace is a VERY recent state of affairs. As recently as a couple thousand years ago (which given Vulcan's extened lifespan is probabaly only equivalent to 4-500 years of human history) they were warlike on a planetary scale, the likes of which only Ghenghis Khan could appreciate. Their martial arts contain a plethora of lethal techniqes as well, not to mention weapon techniqes. (Refer back to 'Amok Time' for a bit of how that works).

In short, a Vulcan should be an equal match for a human super-soldier. JJ's Khan Noonian Singh wasn't a super-soldier, he was a flat-out superhuman brick (low-end, perhaps, but still well beyond human limits).

And pale beyond belief for a character that was supposed to hail from India...

Saw this yesterday in 3D. Really loved it, and its a great next step in the trek reboot. The kirk/spoc relationship is moving on very nicely and was great to see scotty have a bigger role. Bring on the next one.

Recent comments in this thread are killing my faith in humanity.

 Breotan wrote:
Recent comments in this thread are killing my faith in humanity.

You still have some

 Breotan wrote:
Recent comments in this thread are killing my faith in humanity.

Breotan, we get it, you hated the film but there's no need to indirectly insult those of us that enjoyed it.

 Breotan wrote:
Recent comments in this thread are killing my faith in humanity.

It is thinking like this that reduces our humanity.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Breotan wrote:
Recent comments in this thread are killing my faith in humanity.

It is thinking like this that reduces our humanity.

Oh, the humanity.

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Oh, the humanity.

Ahem.



I'm finding that while I enjoyed it in the theater, as time goes by and I unpack it more, it does not hold up well. Still, enjoyed it at the time, and would watch it on Netflix if I were bored.

Breotan, after seeing this movie a second time, I disagree with the review you linked to. I watched Wrath of Khan on Netflix before writing this to be sure. The new movie is Way better. Seriously. The old scene between Kirk and Spock was definitely amazing, but the new one was done well, and the movie overall was good.

Like Mann says below, I do think some events could have used more time to develop, but the characters are handled so well in the Star Trek reboot. Overall, I love it

 Mannahnin wrote:
Khan was like Captain America "ultimate human" superheroic in TOS. Way beyond everyone else. Kirk beats him with a pipe on (in D&D terms) being high level, having lots of hit points, and rolling some nat 20s. Spock could take him on because he's superhuman too. They turned Khan up to 11 in this one, but I liked him a lot.

I really like the way the characters are handled in this series. All the core characters are done a great deal of justice, and the Spock/Kirk contrast remains the center, the contrast between our hearts and our minds and how they conflict even when driven by the same ideals and principles.

I also liked this one better than Iron Man: 3. It has some holes and issues, but less egregious ones, for my money. The time & distance things were a bit odd, but I kind of accepted the "we can get anyone on the phone from anywhere" thing as a conceit for the setting. My main thought was that some events were big enough that they could have used a bit more time & space to be expanded on.

My biggest complaint with the plot is really only in two parts:

 Ahtman wrote:

 rubiksnoob wrote:
Oh, the humanity.

Ahem.

Spoiler:

Touche.

 LordofHats wrote:

Spoiler:

And: How is it that no one notices a firefight between the Enterprise and Dreadnought on Earth? It's the home base of Star Fleet and the Federation and no one notices anything??? It's just kind of bizarre how the events in the series sometimes played out.

Wait if the loss of seven ships has so hammered the Federation, why was Klingon Empire not obliterated by its enemies? After all, they lost 47 ships.

Now THAT would be a shift, if the Klingon Empire gets overthrown or effectively taken down by rebellions from its slave states. Alternatively a nice war of aggression by the Federation on them would be impressive.

Pretty sure the Klingon-Federation War is up next.
As Ahtman said the Federation is not a superpower at this point. In fact they just lost Vulcan, founding world and probably second most important planet in the UFP.