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These guys aren't oppressed, they have legitimate Democratic means of voicing their concerns.

Instead they chose to go out and hack a man to death and go on a rant. I wouldn't think that a trial would be necessary or long with such damning evidence. Obviously they'll have to speak at their trial, but I hope the media chooses not to publish their words.

My initial reaction wants their blood to be spilled, but that's just anger. I really want to see them thrown in Isolation for the rest of their lives. Removed from society, forgotten, without becoming martyrs.

Going say this in a light way.To them they commited a "Jihad" killing by targeting a soldier............oh and I watch the video....anyone else see the female lying by the body?


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Like she was having her pic taking by the other chubby female?

It's that accent that gets me. When he says 'in our land women have to see the same' I keep thinking that things in South London can't be that bad.

Anyhow, this looks like just another donkey-cave who's decided he wants to go on a crusade for the cause of that vague idea of a homeland that he's probably never even been too. And some poor bastard ends up dead because of it. Just fething awful, really.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
I think removing the bad people of society would be quite civilised.

That's what Robespierre argued, and for a while people listened to him. In hindsight, most people consider the terror wasn't a good thing.


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 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Yeah, except, the unfortunate thing is, it's not just two lone individuals. It's thousands of them. Yes, I've read the Koran in its entirety and many of the Hadiths, and no, Islam is not a "religion of peace". Neither is Islam a race, before the inevitable cries of "racist" go up.

Sure, I won't call you racist, but grossly ill-informed.

Time to take the blinders off, everyone. How long will it take? A 1400 year history of aggression. Thousands of Islamic terror attacks worldwide since 9/11. Riots in the streets over depictions of Mohammed. Theo van Gogh beheaded in front of his home for daring to criticize oppression of women in Islamic societies. And no condemnation of any of this from the Muslim world at large. It's plain as day. But everyone just wants to cover their ears and say "lalalalala".

No, I just understand how numbers work. There's a billion muslims in the world. If it is 'thousands of them' as you yourself stated then, making your 'thousands of them' say, 10,000, then that's one muslim per 100,000.

And when something is something is a few as one in a 100,000 its fething stupid, and completely useless to condemn them all.


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 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
"Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities - but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it. No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith"

- Winston Churchill, Hero.

Oh for feth's sake. fething Churchill?! I mean, the guy did a great many good things, but his out and out racism was a goddamn embarrassment in the 1940s, let alone today.

"I do not admit for instance, that a great wrong has been done to the Red Indians of America or the black people of Australia. I do not admit that a wrong has been done to these people by the fact that a stronger race, a higher-grade race, a more worldly wise race to put it that way, has come in and taken their place."

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

 ProfessionalAmateur wrote:
There's been a bit of racist backlash from this as well, people getting REALLY angry at the muslim and black communities over the actions of just two individuals.

Yeah, except, the unfortunate thing is, it's not just two lone individuals. It's thousands of them. Yes, I've read the Koran in its entirety and many of the Hadiths, and no, Islam is not a "religion of peace". Neither is Islam a race, before the inevitable cries of "racist" go up.

Time to take the blinders off, everyone. How long will it take? A 1400 year history of aggression. Thousands of Islamic terror attacks worldwide since 9/11. Riots in the streets over depictions of Mohammed. Theo van Gogh beheaded in front of his home for daring to criticize oppression of women in Islamic societies. And no condemnation of any of this from the Muslim world at large. It's plain as day. But everyone just wants to cover their ears and say "lalalalala".

But, hey, enjoy your Sharia Controlled Zones in London, I guess.

Do you not see the irony in your preaching hate against a religion you claim preaches hate? Historically, there are many atrocities committed in the name of religion, so the solution is to reciprocate?

Yes, there is a branch of Islam that poses a problem and threatens people's safety, but there are extremist elements in other religions, and it doesn't take religion to perpetrate evil acts.

We recently saw the conviction of a man who burned his own children alive, in an effort to secure a larger house from the state. There is currently a trial ongoing of a man who may well have stalked, abducted and murdered a little girl. His defence is he didn't murder her, he was just so drunk he ran her over in his car and can't remember where he hid the body.

My point is, people are evil and do bad things. Some will try to justify it, but they are just as misguided as those who try and persecute the many for the actions of the few.

A soldier being killed in the street is unfortunately nothing new in this country. Religion is never a reason its only an pathetic excuse like all the others, its the same crap we have had to deal with for decades. Just now most of them aint white and have a thing for beards.

Don’t hold Britain’s entire Muslim population responsible, there no more responsible than I am for every crime committed by socialist agnostics.

There just worthless scum bags who instead of becoming martyrs for there BS cause ended up shot and in custody. They will go to prison for life and get a “proper” seeing too and be forgotten.

What the poor fellas family must be going through with the rather graphic media coverage I can only imagine. Death is never easy but to have global media show pictures of it......feck.

 sebster wrote:

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 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
Yeah, except, the unfortunate thing is, it's not just two lone individuals. It's thousands of them. Yes, I've read the Koran in its entirety and many of the Hadiths, and no, Islam is not a "religion of peace". Neither is Islam a race, before the inevitable cries of "racist" go up.

Sure, I won't call you racist, but grossly ill-informed.

Removed

Sorry.................. violent sepratist movements in the UK, your off the reservation man, there not the IRA

Are you bat gak crazy. Are you an American teenager by any chance? You sound scared.

Chill theres perception of reality and real life, your going for the former big style.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:
LOL. Buddy, I *promise* you I am better informed on the subject than you. Read the Koran, read a couple of Hadiths, read a couple of thousand pages about Mohamed and the history of Islam, read up on the Shia Sunni divide, and then we can have a proper chat.

I have the Koran, I know the history of Islam, and I've taken uni courses on the Sunni/Shia divide. But I doubt a proper chat will suffice, because unfortunately your starting position is simply bonkers crazy nonsense.

Sorry, you are right, by the way - I should have said millions, not thousands.

And if it were millions of evil people, well then it'd still be one in a thousand. And it simply isn't millions, if it were we'd see a hell of a lot more violence and death than the sporadic incidents we actually see.

Seriously, your numbers make no fething sense. Your whole argument collapses in the face of third grade division and multiplication.

I think your western inclination to want to see the good in all people is noble, but it is entirely misguided.

No, I see selfish apathy in people. We look after ourselves and our immediate families, and very rarely do anything to jeopardise that. And I see that the number of people who act outside that, for good or for bad, is extremely rare.

Whereas you see a great rising tide of people raised on a religion of violence... and it is plainly and simply a nonsense worldview, born of emotion and irrationality, that just ignores the basic demography of the world (seriously, if even 10% of a population of a billion people are violent crazies, we'd see a hell of a lot more violence) and ignores the basic realities of human nature.

Islam in its current form is a vile, domineering political ideology under a thin veneer of religion and it has no place in a civilized world. The Muslim world needs to get with the times. They are in desperate need of a reformation. The onus is on them, not on us.

There is no 'onus' on anyone. Culture is emergent, not designed.

Let's stop pretending that this is just some "fringe" of crazy Muslims or that they are justified in their actions.

No, seriously. Basic fething numbers. Try using them, it's fun.

These are probably just another couple of crazies, much like the boston bombers. Not really affiliated with anyone, no real sense of what they were doing. More just garden variety crazies than religious fanatics.

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[/u]Kilkrazy typed <Let's stick with polite arguments, not personal jibes. Thank you.>[/u]

The World is gak but its not because of muslims its because of people. Grow up and get some bloody perspective on life.

You know the first time I heard "Not all Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims." I kind of laughed at the ignorance of it. But more and more...........

It's sad because personally I know a lot of Muslims that would never hurt anybody.

Its the fact that its Islam which has allowed this to happen, would they have done this if they were not muslim?

edit: And its these conflicting opinions which is why the world is so we will never find agreement.

Like so many others this story has really, deeply upset me. I hadn't really figured out how to deal with it yet in my own mind so I figured I'd see what Dakka had to say. I was hoping for some heart felt condolences to those directly effect and a little intelligent back and forth about where we go from here.

I'm truly disgusted to my core by the misinformed and unintelligent racism, condoning of violence and entirely medieval attitudes expressed here. So much so I vomited in my mouth a little.

I'm completely shocked that all this thread has really done is made the story more depressing. -1 for my faith in the average man. I really can't express how upsetting this is. My thoughts are with the family and friends right now.

I'll remember to find another forum of discusion in future for such important and serious matters.

I thought Racism was about colour, not religion?

Edit: We live in a world where to be racist is the greatest crime known to man, shame.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

You're simply outclassed in this debate, "mate".

I think that your perception of reality is skewed. Your arguments are baseless, if you are going to cherrypick bits from the koran that advocates violence will you also do the same with the bible?

Sebster is one of the most knowledgable on Dakka so I think that you need to pick your battles with more care,or not post bs.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

You're simply outclassed in this debate, "mate".

I think that your perception of reality is skewed. Your arguments are baseless, if you are going to cherrypick bits from the koran that advocates violence will you also do the same with the bible?

Sebster is one of the most knowledgable on Dakka so I think that you need to pick your battles with more care,or not post bs.

He didnt say the bible was good.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

You're simply outclassed in this debate, "mate".

I think that your perception of reality is skewed. Your arguments are baseless, if you are going to cherrypick bits from the koran that advocates violence will you also do the same with the bible?

Sebster is one of the most knowledgable on Dakka so I think that you need to pick your battles with more care,or not post bs.

Removed.

 unmercifulconker wrote:
He didnt say the bible was good.

He didn't claim that he did, he just wanted to know if he was going to cherry pick the Bible to show that Christians are also violent, terrible people at their core. When you cherry pick, it isn't that hard to do.

 Ahtman wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
He didnt say the bible was good.

He didn't claim that he did, he just wanted to know if he was going to cherry pick the Bible to show that Christians are also violent, terrible people at their core. When you cherry pick, it isn't that hard to do.

Removed.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 unmercifulconker wrote:
He didnt say the bible was good.

He didn't claim that he did, he just wanted to know if he was going to cherry pick the Bible to show that Christians are also violent, terrible people at their core. When you cherry pick, it isn't that hard to do.

Great, so do it. Go on and cherry pick from any of Jesus's sayings.

The bible encompasses more than just Jesus's sayings. Have you never seen a bible?

Fair enough.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

Please, demonstrate to me your extensive knowledge on the subject. Bring it. I am calling you out.

Tell you what, I will do so IF you can demonstrate to me your extensive knowledge of statistics and political history which is something that so far you have singularly failed to do.

You are cluttering up this thread with utter bs.

Someone throw a punch already.

Was just watching Daybreak then and they interviewed the woman who confronted the scum and damn she is a legend. She just got off the bus and the only reason she decided to leave was because she thought she would miss her bus. What a legend.

 Palindrome wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

Please, demonstrate to me your extensive knowledge on the subject. Bring it. I am calling you out.

Tell you what, I will do so IF you can demonstrate to me your extensive knowledge of statistics and political history which is something that so far you have singularly failed to do.

You are cluttering up this thread with utter bs.

Removed.

Well if you cherry pick the bible and skip the whole first testament, it actually comes off as a pretty peaceful book. The old testament however.......some pretty evil stuff in there.

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

Huh. Funny. I graduated with a degree in Political Science from one of the top 10 universities in the world. You?

Really? Did you get a third?

To save you the bother of responding, don't as you are now on my ignore list (population 2).

 Palindrome wrote:

 Xenocidal Maniac wrote:

Huh. Funny. I graduated with a degree in Political Science from one of the top 10 universities in the world. You?

Removed.

Violence with the koran involve....well....verbal violence....You know most of our insurgents/terrorist foot pounders are not highly educated and are easily influence for lack of reading comprehension. Their Imam is a powrful influencing figure in their life. Certain passage if preach just right and with conviction will in turn create a Jihadist. I'm glad you both read the Koran and all that. Now go over it again and see what passages in it that can create a radical muslim...strike that..radical muslim is a hardcore practicing muslim....go with insurgent/terrorist willing to fight. They fight with conviction and firmly believe God is on their side. Hopefully you can look at the Koran with a differet perception. and see what passages are powerful enough to give motivation and dedication to the cause




Sorry for the bit of confusion. hopefully I got my point across. Chemo and pains meds running riot on me

I dont really act as the wannabe mod but I think its better if we end this pointless debate as everyone is so fixed on their opinion, you can never persaude them. As Crassus said from the show Spartacus, both men believe themselves the hero and the other the villain.