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So I'm finally diving in for jetseer and a couple jetlocks. Not a full council, but enough to spread between other units. The extra survivability alone is worth the 15 points.

As foot seer I rarely went Singing Spear because of the range (and 1 less attack), but that's less of an issue with jetbikes and now you no longer lose an attack. Do you think it's worth the 5pts upgrade?

For the locks I might get a spear or two but not all of them.

Okay, have the Hemlock Wraithfighter, looks awesome, fluff is awesome, best ways to make it shine?

I play Alaitoc, I'm loving it for my Rangers already, pinning down Fearless units seems fun. Eldar have a lot of ways to force checks with pinning rangers, EMLs, and Tank shocking serpents that laugh at Death or Glory.
If only there was a reliable way to get the -3Ld power into play, but I think that becomes too much effort.

It's about the cheapest upgrade you can do to add a little more flexibility.

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why does Maugan Ra have relentless?

to confer onto the reapers as they are his aspect warriors

Halfpast_Yellow wrote:
Okay, have the Hemlock Wraithfighter, looks awesome, fluff is awesome, best ways to make it shine?

I play Alaitoc, I'm loving it for my Rangers already, pinning down Fearless units seems fun. Eldar have a lot of ways to force checks with pinning rangers, EMLs, and Tank shocking serpents that laugh at Death or Glory.
If only there was a reliable way to get the -3Ld power into play, but I think that becomes too much effort.

Autuarch is a help, as he still modifies reserve rolls. I also like the rules for this fighter and have enough D-cannons to buy the cheaper $45 DE version and still make it presentable.

 muagenreaper wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why does Maugan Ra have relentless?

to confer onto the reapers as they are his aspect warriors

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

So has anybody figured out how we are going to deal with lists that contain 2 flyers and an ADL?

Mebbe I'm missing something...but that ADL can tear our flyers a new one...leaving us with Warwalkers and Dark Reapers as AA with no interceptor(good luck keeping Dark Reapers alive against Baleflames...).

 shamikebab wrote:

 muagenreaper wrote:

PredaKhaine wrote:
Why does Maugan Ra have relentless?

to confer onto the reapers as they are his aspect warriors

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

well thats different fro the last codex so idk why hed have such a useless rule for him wait isnt a adl turret heavy theres its use lol

Has anyone else noticed that you can upgrade any of the warlocks to jetbikes, and then assign them to non-jetbike squads? I guess it gets him a 3+ save in addition to his 4++, twin linked ShuriCatapults and a +1 toughness. (though that won't matter until you get down to the last two models in the squad, due to the majority toughness rules.)

They already have Slow and Purposeful, what does Relentless offer over that? (I genuinely can't remember!)

It will allow them to run, and also to assault after shooting.

Ah, I can't imagine many scenarios where I'd want to do either with Dark reapers really!

milo wrote:
though that won't matter until you get down to the last two models in the squad, due to the majority toughness rules.

Tats why no body has really noticed it there is no point. sure there is the dd time where a model or 2 makes the game in a unit that was destroyed. but for the most part when the Toughness 4 takes effect the unit will be nigh on useless.

 shamikebab wrote:

 evildrspock wrote:

One thing I was just thinking of is taking a unit of 3 Vypers, one with a Scatterlaser, the rest with Shuriken Cannons, and all underslung Shuriken Cannons (war walkers can do this too, but I prefer Vypers because of Jink). Against any normal target, you are very likely to get one Scatterlaser hit, then ... 15 TL bs4 s6 shots with Bladestorm. There are lots of fun ways to approach anti-infantry or anti-tank. Laser lock is such a cool rule.

No! Laser lock is for the model not the unit, only the one with the Scatter Laser would get twin linked.

Ugh, I gotta get used to all these new rules, thanks for the rules clarification everyone.

Puscifer wrote:
I definitely didn't forget the Jetbikes... they are up there. Definitely taking a Conceal Warlock for those lovely 2+ Jink Saves.

This will be awesome. All jetbike units can reliably survive this way, very cool. And a drop in points from previous edition, to boot! I think Ill take the extra 6 jetbikes I purchased for a larger Jetseer Council and (since you can't have more than 10 warlocks per detachment, anyways) make a 2nd 6 man Windrider Jetbike + Spearlock unit.

I like how the Spiritseer basically took the place of any warlock you would give to the Wraithguard in the previous codex. It is a fitting rules change that Wraithguard and Wraithlords lost Wraithsight and Warlock compatibility, as they still so clearly benefit from a Spiritseer anyways.

I'm thinking about Running Maugen Ra as an HQ with Dire Avengers, Dark Reapers and a Crimson Hunter or two. The Dire Avengers got a nice boost being able to move shoot run, essentially rending, oh and counter attack! Give the Exarch a Dire Sword and you'll be kicking some severe butt in a challenge, not to mention doing some damn good overwatch! Defensively speaking, I think Dire Avengers are freaking awesome!!!
Dark Reapers got a damn fine boost! They can do realiable antitank now with their krak missiles, or scythe down MEQs. I'm not sure is they get fast shot, or if that's Exarch only, but twould be scary!!!!
The Crimson Hunter is an AWESOME anti-flyer! Upgrade to an exarch to maximise each shot! Great for anti Land Raider as well, what with 4 S8 Lance shots!

At a tournament I just played in on Sunday there were 3 eldar players including me. I hadn’t read the codex in depth but I did play someone who had. (he also somehow had time to build a wraithknight)
And one strategy that he used with his wraithknight was to put one scatter laser on his shoulder and one suncannon. Let me tell you that it was DEADLY. first he scatter lasered the most powerful unit on my side, softening it up and making the suncannon twin linked due to the laser lock special rule. Let me tell you how hard this was to defeat. I think I would rather face two vindicators (is that spelled right?) than face that beast. I realize that people will probally say something like “ why don’t you kill it with your bla bla bla” or “my bla bla bla could kill it easily” well he got first turn and he blew all of my most dangerous model off the board with that thing. Any good ways to consistently kill that thing?

 nonowho wrote:
At a tournament I just played in on Sunday there were 3 eldar players including me. I hadn’t read the codex in depth but I did play someone who had. (he also somehow had time to build a wraithknight)
And one strategy that he used with his wraithknight was to put one scatter laser on his shoulder and one suncannon. Let me tell you that it was DEADLY. first he scatter lasered the most powerful unit on my side, softening it up and making the suncannon twin linked due to the laser lock special rule. Let me tell you how hard this was to defeat. I think I would rather face two vindicators (is that spelled right?) than face that beast. I realize that people will probally say something like “ why don’t you kill it with your bla bla bla” or “my bla bla bla could kill it easily” well he got first turn and he blew all of my most dangerous model off the board with that thing. Any good ways to consistently kill that thing?

Dark Reapers. They now have a S8 ap3 single shot as well as the traditional S5 ap3 Heavy 2. 5 shots will put 2 wounds on it, statistically speaking. Also, rangers. To hit rolls of 6 make them ap1 I believe. Snipers, poisoned weapons, and anti-tank weapons are the only thing that can really realliably damage the WK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, is it just me, or does the Crimson Hunter look like Latias from Pokemon?!

So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

lol, that's probably not a good thing. But yeah, I can see it.

 ironicsilence wrote:
So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

Correct.

 ironicsilence wrote:
So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

I'm not sure why the created a special rule - when they could have just said Scatter Laser does "x". It's the only weapon with the special rule, but I digress...

All shots are simultaneous - but you have to complete the Scatter Laser first - like step 1a: if it hits then: all weapons yet to fire on the single model become TL.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't piggyback seeing as the SL fires first - so it would seem dual SL may be worse situation as you're not going to get to TL anything "after" .

I'm looking at SL/BL atm, but I smell a trap as what we'll probably see more of is the SL/EML set-up. I just don't want to spend 90pts/ea for one.

I wonder if scatter laser + star cannon will be the new layout of choice for warwalkers of it its better to just stick with dual lasers and not worry about laser lock, can still hit them with guide

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

I'm not sure why the created a special rule - when they could have just said Scatter Laser does "x". It's the only weapon with the special rule, but I digress...

All shots are simultaneous - but you have to complete the Scatter Laser first - like step 1a: if it hits then: all weapons yet to fire on the single model become TL.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't piggyback seeing as the SL fires first - so it would seem dual SL may be worse situation as you're not going to get to TL anything "after" .

I'm looking at SL/BL atm, but I smell a trap as what we'll probably see more of is the SL/EML set-up. I just don't want to spend 90pts/ea for one.

Isn't it mathematically better to just take two of them?

The only situation I can really see myself using it is with the Wraithlord's Suncannon or with a Shuriken Cannon on a Vyper/War Walker (that way you're at least using two weapons that target the same type of enemy)

 Aleph-Sama wrote:
I'm thinking about Running Maugen Ra as an HQ with Dire Avengers, Dark Reapers and a Crimson Hunter or two. The Dire Avengers got a nice boost being able to move shoot run, essentially rending, oh and counter attack! Give the Exarch a Dire Sword and you'll be kicking some severe butt in a challenge, not to mention doing some damn good overwatch! Defensively speaking, I think Dire Avengers are freaking awesome!!!
Dark Reapers got a damn fine boost! They can do realiable antitank now with their krak missiles, or scythe down MEQs. I'm not sure is they get fast shot, or if that's Exarch only, but twould be scary!!!!
The Crimson Hunter is an AWESOME anti-flyer! Upgrade to an exarch to maximise each shot! Great for anti Land Raider as well, what with 4 S8 Lance shots!

woot someone else i got to run muagen ra lol i love that scythe weilding beast of an hq now to get my freind to get his own so i can get mine back and put him in a place of honor to collect dust as necrons are more my play style tough as nails necromantic robots

I like putting more on the table, and with the costs of upgrading everything, my Lords are bare boned with flamers. I plan on shielding them with 3 WW and again, trying to keep them on the cheap too - though I do like having more shots.

Since the rest of what I run has short range but Str 8/10, maybe I can ditch the BL for SC.

But yes - BS 4 dual SL should still put a big hurt on whatever it shoots.

Damn - actually the more I think of it - 3 WW with dual SL would be what - Heavy 24, Str 6?

 shamikebab wrote:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:

 ironicsilence wrote:
So just to confirm my understanding of scatter laser, a warwalker with dual scatter lasers does not benefit from laser lock since both lasers have to fire first correct?

I'm not sure why the created a special rule - when they could have just said Scatter Laser does "x". It's the only weapon with the special rule, but I digress...

All shots are simultaneous - but you have to complete the Scatter Laser first - like step 1a: if it hits then: all weapons yet to fire on the single model become TL.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't piggyback seeing as the SL fires first - so it would seem dual SL may be worse situation as you're not going to get to TL anything "after" .

I'm looking at SL/BL atm, but I smell a trap as what we'll probably see more of is the SL/EML set-up. I just don't want to spend 90pts/ea for one.

Isn't it mathematically better to just take two of them?

The only situation I can really see myself using it is with the Wraithlord's Suncannon or with a Shuriken Cannon on a Vyper/War Walker (that way you're at least using two weapons that target the same type of enemy)

With the old Codex I had a 3 walker unit with twin scatter lasers, and a 3 walker unit with tin bright lances. At first I thought change them to 2 units with Scatter laser Bright lance. Then i realize that those weapons serve two different functions so not sure if it would be worth it.

 shamikebab wrote:
The only situation I can really see myself using [scatterlasers with laserlock] is with the Wraithlord's Suncannon or with a Shuriken Cannon on a Vyper/War Walker (that way you're at least using two weapons that target the same type of enemy)

It would also be an effective way to help Falcons be more reliable anti tank. The difference between a falcon and a Crimson Hunter are not too terribly far off; going from BS3 in the previous edition to BS4 + the option of laserlocking with a Scatter Laser makes those 2 s8 ap2 shots quite a bit scarier. If I decide to run Falcons over Fire Prisms (the only reason I see being the extra transport capacity for small Fire Dragons, Striking Scorpions, or a Dire Avenger squads), I think this is a still quite reliable anti vehicle option. Sure it can't punch though land raiders, but that's why it's delivering the Fire Dragons. Or, it can try to pull the old pop-the-Rhino, scorch-the-marines trick as well.

Edit: Clearly the Crimson Hunter does it better (albeit the Hunter will snap-shot land dwelling vehicles) because of it Skyhunter, but the Falcon still got better. It is a versatile unit that while not having as many bells and whistles up front can provide some very useful tactics.

Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

 shamikebab wrote:
Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

Agreed - I was kind hoping the Walkers would get thrown into the FA slot.

 shamikebab wrote:
Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

You going back to 2nd edition codex on the Dedicated Falcon?

jbunny wrote:

 shamikebab wrote:
Good call, I still wish Falcons were dedicated transports. I'm just not sure I can face giving up the other HS options to take one. Really they just needed to spread our options out more, War Walkers and Falcons could easily be elsewhere :(

You going back to 2nd edition codex on the Dedicated Falcon?

That was actually when I started playing

It just makes sense to me, I don't see any reason why Razorback can be dedicated and Falcons can't. Even tone them down slightly and reduce their points cost if you have to. They don't really feel like a Heavy Support choice, if anything they should be Fast Attack (getting a unit as quickly as possible to where they need to go)