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They are human. Imagine the range in personalities we have then apply it to them.
Some are probably total dicks, others are probably really nice.

They are humans raised in a specific environment, indoctrinated into a specific cult of belief, trained to perform a specific set of skills in fairly specific environments, and not permitted to partake of most of the things that a regular human has available.

... and they enjoy this.

Don't think the "regular human" bit works with regards to Sisters.

Consider that these are women who begin their training to become Sisters at a very young age, and, as these are Hospitallers, are entering what we would consider Med School at, what, 14? 16? They never work in a civilian hospital. They never have to deal with the sense of hopelessness that a civilian doctor in an underfunded public clinic might. They are indoctrinated to believe that the God-Emperor has a plan for everything, and those who suffer are brought closer unto Him through their suffering.

They still have regular human traits.
Even commissars have varying personalities.

 purplefood wrote:
They still have regular human traits

To an extent. But they would still feel alien to us.

 Melissia wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
They still have regular human traits

To an extent. But they would still feel alien to us.

An excellent point to jump off with. To the outside, they must feel very stern and by the book. That's their outside demeanor. My medic shows total professionalism and military bearing to anybody outside of the unit. In the unit? Behind closed doors? Total joker. He'd still be cracking jokes while packing you with gauze. That's the thing about a lot of GW fluff, it's broad stroke stuff that describes legions in one sentence. The BL and outer sourced stuff gets into the weeds for each and every person of a given unit. It's like that universally. Commissars, guardsmen, and even space marines are given personalities when you see them as people. Sisters are no different. Personality shows through when given the chance and the security of a member's unit. The point of all of this?

Each sister is capable of having their own emotions and feelings. There are some things that are universal. A belief in the Emperor and their mission for example.

 Troike wrote:
The Hospitalliers who arrive with Verity in Faith and Fire can be tough and intimidaing when they need to be. But yes, they're often not as angry or battle-hardened as their Militant comrades. Verity herself is a very good example of this. It's made clear that she's not used to combat like the Militants are. Though a Hospitallier who's been deployed to frontline combat might adopt the attitude of her Militant buddies.

So yeah, it'll vary.

Beat me to it. Verity is awesome

Humblesteve wrote:

 Melissia wrote:

 purplefood wrote:
They still have regular human traits

To an extent. But they would still feel alien to us.

An excellent point to jump off with. To the outside, they must feel very stern and by the book. That's their outside demeanor. My medic shows total professionalism and military bearing to anybody outside of the unit. In the unit? Behind closed doors? Total joker. He'd still be cracking jokes while packing you with gauze. That's the thing about a lot of GW fluff, it's broad stroke stuff that describes legions in one sentence. The BL and outer sourced stuff gets into the weeds for each and every person of a given unit. It's like that universally. Commissars, guardsmen, and even space marines are given personalities when you see them as people. Sisters are no different. Personality shows through when given the chance and the security of a member's unit. The point of all of this?

Each sister is capable of having their own emotions and feelings. There are some things that are universal. A belief in the Emperor and their mission for example.

Yep. And the bitter, sarcastic, Dr. House-isms from the show are, as one might put it, unprofessional. These are women who are here to serve the God-Emperor, and stand as representatives of His Mercy. Being a sarcastic jerk to their patients does not serve this goal.

All about how you interpret "mercy" mano especially if they're from one of the sects that interpret suffering as a blessing. Try it this way for example.

"Bedside manner? Succor is for cowards and heretics, if you show yourself to be either in my presence Guardsman I promise your end shall be immediate, you have sacrificed much..." The Sororitas gives the legless man a brief once over like a butcher sizing up a Grox. "...and I have been informed that you shall be decorated, promoted and fit with new legs courtesy of the Adeptus Mechanicus... should you survive. I shall say it once again, prove yourself a coward and I shall ensure you are remembered as the hero you were before being dragged into my operating theater. If the God Emperor wills it, and your courage continues to hold, you shall walk from this place acknowledged as that same hero." Well trimmed nails dance over a selection of surgical equipment, neatly laid out by one of the surgical orderlies that are waiting outside for the Sister Superior to signal for their return, an experienced trauma team, they know better then to interrupt the Sister Superior's "pep talks", but a flash of a laser scalpel is all the signal needed for the team to rush the room. As the brutal work of preserving life begins the Sister Superior allows herself a contented smile as she begins her work, the soul has been cared for, now to see to the body. "All in a day's work."

Humblesteve wrote:

Melissia wrote:To an extent. But they would still feel alien to us.

An excellent point to jump off with. To the outside, they must feel very stern and by the book. That's their outside demeanor. My medic shows total professionalism and military bearing to anybody outside of the unit. In the unit? Behind closed doors? Total joker. He'd still be cracking jokes while packing you with gauze.

I believe (assume) Melissia was referring to "us" as "the reader", not as in "someone not within their Order".

I don't know why, but it seems as if a lot of people just assume all humans have to be the same in the range of the emotions and behaviour patterns they permit themselves. I wonder, do people think the same about the Japanese samurai ideal of earlier time periods? Or Al-Qaida suicide bombers? Or, to bring up an example of the 40k franchise, the Black Templars?
With the Adepta Sororitas, we're talking religious fanatics, and I don't see why a person should act against the beliefs that have been drilled into their heads - especially when, as per Codex fluff, such behaviour is subject to extreme punishment.
To me, the application of contemporary western culture that is being taken for granted here, where everyone is free to act as they want, just seems too contradictory to the core aspects of how the Sisterhood has always been described in studio material.

"The Adepta Sororitas is a penitent order where constant hardship, deprivation and arduous work are part of an unrelenting devotional regime. Its members are fanatical in their commitment. The slightest deviation from approved stricture leads to the most severe chastisement."

You don't get to be this organisation if your people start cracking jokes as soon as you close the doors.

But of course GW's own fluff on them is anything but binding. Anyone who wishes to do so is free to imagine them in a less restrictive manner, and even a number of licensed products make use of this opportunity. I just don't quite see why this is being done. If you want normal people, you already have those in the Imperial Guard.

 Lynata wrote:
But of course GW's own fluff on them is anything but binding. Anyone who wishes to do so is free to imagine them in a less restrictive manner, and even a number of licensed products make use of this opportunity. I just don't quite see why this is being done. If you want normal people, you already have those in the Imperial Guard.

But conversely, you don't want to go too far in the other direction and make them all identical zealots.

I remember somebody praised James Swallow because he avoided making them into "PRAY KILL BURN automatons" and gave them some variety, and i think that's a valid point to make. It's okay to give them a little depth and variance, IMO. But yes, duty and faith should very much always be at the top of their agendas, because that's who they are as an organisation.

Troike wrote:But conversely, you don't want to go too far in the other direction and make them all identical zealots.

Absolutely! Which is why I think it's so difficult to make "convincing" Sororitas, Space Marines, or Commissars, both in novels as well as RPGs. I think I've mentioned this before, but it takes quite a bit of consideration to hit that sweet spot between "too human/normal" and "too much of a clone". The many self-imposed and/or enforced limitations make for less room for a personality to "manoeuver" within, so a writer/player needs to look for more subtle differences or risk breaking the mold. And whilst I'm not sure I agree with Sister Verity coming off as that dovish, I think Swallow did an excellent job with the Battle Sisters. You can appear to be "PRAY KILL BURN" and still have more depth when looked at more closely - the little conflict between Miriya and Imogen in Hammer & Anvil springs to mind, which I thought was a nice touch and a good example on how to "individualise" brainwashed people without invalidating their indoctrination. Same for the talks between Miriya and Canoness Galatea in Faith & Fire. It's just that the differences between them are not so glaringly obvious as it is with "normal people", and more focused on minor differences in prioritisation or how they react to non-standard situations.

And in this sense, I'd even assume that some Sisters may have a bit of humour, but it wouldn't be foolishly joking around and telling funny stories, but a much more nuanced form employing clever remarks. I always remember the Prioress from Daemonifuge as an example, when she decides to rig Ephrael's trial in her favour.

Canoness Ramientez: "She's got no chance against the Inquisitor at close quarters ..."
Prioress: "Unless fate decides to even the odds."
*looks for servitor remote*
Prioress: "You believe in fate, don't you?"
Canoness: *smirk*

 Lynata wrote:
And in this sense, I'd even assume that some Sisters may have a bit of humour, but it wouldn't be foolishly joking around and telling funny stories, but a much more nuanced form employing clever remarks.

Faith and Fire actually has one cracking a witty remark in the middle of difficult firefight. One of Miriya's squadmates quips "If only I had a storm bolter!" which I thought was a very nice touch.

 Lynata wrote:
I always remember the Prioress from Daemonifuge as an example, when she decides to rig Ephrael's trial in her favour.

Canoness Ramientez: "She's got no chance against the Inquisitor at close quarters ..."
Prioress: "Unless fate decides to even the odds."
*looks for servitor remote*
Prioress: "You believe in fate, don't you?"
Canoness: *smirk*

Arrgh. Really want to buy this off BL now! Were I not off to buy some gak for my minis this week and were I not so stingy, I'd probably get it. I'll have to start setting money aside for it.

I honestly don't think you can compare Samurai of any era to the limited range of human emotion that people in this thread seem to be confining Sisters of Battle too, the Samurai were dedicated and trained from birth in the arts of war, and more importantly to the Samurai, trained to die well, and at a moment's notice. So while the Samurai of the same age have a connected, unifying experience and culture, one man to another, (or woman to another in the case of female Japanese warriors) were just as human as any one else, with the same ranges of personality as any one else, but with the cultural difference separating them from the teeming masses. I find books of the times, in particular The Hagakure, the collected thoughts of Samurai Yamamoto Tsunetomo provide some excellent anecdotes.

Drawing from my own personal experience, I've faced similar criticism in my own time as an American Marine, it's extremely easy to try to paint an organization or historical group with broad brush strokes but it's about as accurate as putting paint on a canvas with a house brush sounds.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:I honestly don't think you can compare Samurai of any era to the limited range of human emotion that people in this thread seem to be confining Sisters of Battle to

I think it's less about a potential lack or inability to experience specific emotions (that would be more of a biological thing I guess), but training and culture resulting in their suppression or outright falsification. The human mind is malleable - else there wouldn't be so much effort spent on propaganda and brainwashing.

Something on the subject:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/north-korea-death-camp-survivor-1814554

KalashnikovMarine wrote:Drawing from my own personal experience, I've faced similar criticism in my own time as an American Marine, it's extremely easy to try to paint an organization or historical group with broad brush strokes but it's about as accurate as putting paint on a canvas with a house brush sounds.

Ah, but by the same token it seems extremely easy to paint an entire species with broad brush strokes regardless of extreme cultural differences.

Now, I've not lived in a medieval nun convent or trained in an Al-Qaida camp myself, but when humans are shaped by their upbringing and environment (which I believe is accepted socio-scientific knowledge by now), then there will be differences defined by those factors. It's just hard to imagine it, I think, because as Melissia said the sheer concept seems alien to us. Check the stories of various real life cult escapees who escaped some nefarious religious group that heaped abuse upon them and existed for decades because of that human drive of unity, then multiply this by ten and imagine all of this takes place in a place that, unlike ours, does not actually believe any of this is wrong, and hence supports not the escapees but their captors. And unlike those cults, where the escapees are usually forced into the movement (either due to their family joining, or because they were born into it), the Sororitas accept only those progena who have already proven to possess a "suitable" mindset during their Schola years.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
All about how you interpret "mercy" mano especially if they're from one of the sects that interpret suffering as a blessing. Try it this way for example.

"Bedside manner? Succor is for cowards and heretics, if you show yourself to be either in my presence Guardsman I promise your end shall be immediate, you have sacrificed much..." The Sororitas gives the legless man a brief once over like a butcher sizing up a Grox. "...and I have been informed that you shall be decorated, promoted and fit with new legs courtesy of the Adeptus Mechanicus... should you survive. I shall say it once again, prove yourself a coward and I shall ensure you are remembered as the hero you were before being dragged into my operating theater. If the God Emperor wills it, and your courage continues to hold, you shall walk from this place acknowledged as that same hero." Well trimmed nails dance over a selection of surgical equipment, neatly laid out by one of the surgical orderlies that are waiting outside for the Sister Superior to signal for their return, an experienced trauma team, they know better then to interrupt the Sister Superior's "pep talks", but a flash of a laser scalpel is all the signal needed for the team to rush the room. As the brutal work of preserving life begins the Sister Superior allows herself a contented smile as she begins her work, the soul has been cared for, now to see to the body. "All in a day's work."

From the fluff we are provided on the Hospitaller, their patients view them as "saintly" and akin to "angels sent by the God-Emperor". Everything regarding the average Joe's experience with the Sisters Hospitaller paints them as beautiful, caring, merciful women who excel at treatment of the sick and injured... unless Average Joe also happens to be a heretic or a cultist. Nowhere are we given a Sister House within the Ordo Hospitaller. Coloring the studio background of the Sisters Hospitaller are the by-now stereotypical attitudes towards the female nurses of WW1/WW2 and, in later conflicts, the "candystriper" volunteers.

Why would they be beautiful?

Saintly doesn't equate to beauty, lol. Caring and merciful, perhaps. But plenty of nurses across time have been referred to as as akin to angels, and saintly. It has nothing to do with their looks. The Sisters aren't going to have time to screen recruits by their looks. And even if they did, they'd probably be much better off funneling the hotties into the Famulous anyway.

I think the "beautiful" part is your imagination getting the better of you. It's not your fault though. Most of the pictures of Sisters of Battle portray them as impossibly skinny Victoria's Secret models in power armor. Well, except for maybe Sister Velma Dinkley of the Orders Dialogus.

But hey, any good wartime propaganda would. Gotta keep the boys on the front line inspired. Nobody wants to save (or be saved by) a short, dumpy, ugly chick, right?

Because Saints are human ideals. They are, in a sense, humanity perfected. Given the situations the injured civilians and soldiers find themselves in, I would not be surprised to find that they have rather hyped-up opinions of the beauty of the Sisters.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:


I think the "beautiful" part is your imagination getting the better of you. It's not your fault though. Most of the pictures of Sisters of Battle portray them as impossibly skinny Victoria's Secret models in power armor. Well, except for maybe Sister Velma Dinkley of the Orders Dialogus.

"Jinkeys! If what I'm reading is right there's a demon confined somewhere on this shrine world and it the seals containing it might be weakening! We have to tell the Canoness right away!"

Sororitas would not necessarily be attractive. They would however be physically fit, in a similar manner to a professional martial artist in modern Earth (except more so).

Yeah, I'm not trying to suggest that all SOB are fashion models. Just pointing out that, the fluff we get about them, told from the POV of the Guardsmen they save, the injured they heal, the sick they cure, etc etc etc, paints them as "angelic". This is, of course, from a very biased perspective (intentionally so) in-universe, so it doesn't surprise me that a Guardsman who would have otherwise died, but was saved by Sister Plain Jane's medical expertise, finds her to be the most beautiful woman he's ever laid eyes on.

Of course, he's probably not going to say that to her face, but when he gets back to his Regiment... well... he's got a tale to tell in the barracks!

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
All about how you interpret "mercy" mano especially if they're from one of the sects that interpret suffering as a blessing. Try it this way for example.

"Bedside manner? Succor is for cowards and heretics, if you show yourself to be either in my presence Guardsman I promise your end shall be immediate, you have sacrificed much..." The Sororitas gives the legless man a brief once over like a butcher sizing up a Grox. "...and I have been informed that you shall be decorated, promoted and fit with new legs courtesy of the Adeptus Mechanicus... should you survive. I shall say it once again, prove yourself a coward and I shall ensure you are remembered as the hero you were before being dragged into my operating theater. If the God Emperor wills it, and your courage continues to hold, you shall walk from this place acknowledged as that same hero." Well trimmed nails dance over a selection of surgical equipment, neatly laid out by one of the surgical orderlies that are waiting outside for the Sister Superior to signal for their return, an experienced trauma team, they know better then to interrupt the Sister Superior's "pep talks", but a flash of a laser scalpel is all the signal needed for the team to rush the room. As the brutal work of preserving life begins the Sister Superior allows herself a contented smile as she begins her work, the soul has been cared for, now to see to the body. "All in a day's work."

Bedside manners would be very critical. Though the Matron apron-approach is something I would believe in, but they would also serve as vessels of faith hearing the last wishes from dying men. Though that is a secondary function as they first and foremost are very skilled medical personnel. Maybe even the best at the IOM. And that's telling a lot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Sororitas would not necessarily be attractive. They would however be physically fit, in a similar manner to a professional martial artist in modern Earth (except more so).

Yeah and they would basically eat like race-horses I mean they would likely be called gluttons by our standards for what they eat, but they would likely all be 100 kilos of muscle at least. I mean a Sororita in the flesh would likely not be an attractive female per say.

I dunno why you people are talking about combat capable/effective (and there is a difference) females like that's not insanely awesome AND hot.

I have never done that confusion in my own fluff. The SOB basically are an Amazon Brigade even better trained and such than any man like Saxa in Spartaus, but also without her promiscuity at the end. She and Nieva is incredibly good examples of how SOB should act in battle. And yeah they are lightly armoured but ripped with muscle.

Beaviz81 wrote:Bedside manners would be very critical. Though the Matron apron-approach is something I would believe in, but they would also serve as vessels of faith hearing the last wishes from dying men. Though that is a secondary function as they first and foremost are very skilled medical personnel. Maybe even the best at the IOM. And that's telling a lot.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Sororitas would not necessarily be attractive. They would however be physically fit, in a similar manner to a professional martial artist in modern Earth (except more so).

Yeah and they would basically eat like race-horses I mean they would likely be called gluttons by our standards for what they eat, but they would likely all be 100 kilos of muscle at least. I mean a Sororita in the flesh would likely not be an attractive female per say.

That's a matter of personal opinion.

Even standards of gluttony differ hugely within cultures between athletes, labourers, and sufficiently-well-off pansies like us (yes, especially you, Captain Beaker :p), let alone between different cultures! If I ate a soldier's normal daily food intake, I'd be a glutton the size of a house. Does that make the soldier a glutton? Only to his mates who eat 5000kC a day instead of 5005kC.

KalashnikovMarine wrote:I dunno why you people are talking about combat capable/effective (and there is a difference) females like that's not insanely awesome AND hot.

This comment is utterly misogynistic and sexist. As a feminist, I am disgusted with you.

As a lesbian, I kinda agree though.

There is nothing misogynistic about being attracted to a physically capable, strong woman. If anything, it shows one is comfortable enough in one's own masculinity to not be threatened by a "tough girl" and also being able to ignore female stereotypes to find something pretty cool.

Also, I doubt most Sisters are 100 kilos in muscle. Most male infantrymen don't weigh that much, feth that weighs almost as much as me, and I've got a layer of fat above the muscle, lol.

To put that in perspective, that is just under how much Arnold Schwarzeneggar (sp?) weighed in his prime.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Also, I doubt most Sisters are 100 kilos in muscle. Most male infantrymen don't weigh that much

Nor do most athletes either...

Actually most people who have 100 kilos of muscle would probably make poor soldiers.

Indeed.

Among athletes, those that weigh that much also tend to be pretty tall, and in professions that require perhaps a bit more bulk than others, such as wrestling (Both collegiate, and the technically non-sport but still physically demanding professional wrestling, among the heavyweights obviously), powerlifting/strongmen, etc.

Edit: Yeah in most cases that is indeed true, with the occasional exception, like the dude from Predator with the minigun (Seriously, that guy was a soldier IRL).

You mean like Try Again Bragg?

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
Drawing from my own personal experience, I've faced similar criticism in my own time as an American Marine, it's extremely easy to try to paint an organization or historical group with broad brush strokes but it's about as accurate as putting paint on a canvas with a house brush sounds.

But by the same token such an organisation often makes members act in a certain way, especially among outsiders. Soldiers (especially the younger ones) have a tendency to tell military stories and go all "Rah rah, my country!" on you simply because that's all they know at the time. And those are people that probably weren't raised as military from birth. Being part of something where they tell you you are better than others for doing what it takes to join has a powerful effect on your mind.

Bragg from what I understand is nothing short of a physical anomaly.

To be over 100 kilos as a soldier is one thing, but isn't he also over seven feet tall?

100 kilos nothing, Bragg would be pushing 200 lol.