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This single rule makes my favorite unit in all 40k, Noise Marines, almost useless

So the "bonus" for using the weapons I pay for, is to be bound by pre-6th ED rapid fire rules?

I can not move, and fire full range, or move and fire at half range. No chance to snap fire at full range, just straight half range. Oh yeah, you also can't assault!

Without access to a drop pod, good luck getting them into range with the Sonic Weapons. And trying to run a Rhino across the board will get it blown up quickly. Putting them in a Land Raider is simply to expensive.

For the love of the Pantheon, FAQ this back to Assault 2/ Heavy 3 of the previous Codex.

I rather like the Salvo rule.

any particular reason why?

Easy, with someone like Huron you can infilitrate them into better firing positions.

I would think a Noise Marine line would look like

20 Noise Marines +CC weapon, champ outfitted to taste
10 Noise Marines or less with SB and BM
10 Noise Marines or less with SB and BM

Noise Marine + CC weapon is one more point than a CSM with MoS and a CC weapon. They're actually a great blob squad to run with the FNP Icon.

You could put the Noise Marines in rhinos also, if you're willing to risk first blood.

The bottom line is everyone is going to come out of their deployment zones at some point. You're mostly using Noise Marines to shoot up scouts/harlies/whatever else you can imagine with 2+ rerollable cover saves but not much else.

5 Noise Marines with SB has 50% more shots at 24" than 10 space marines AND they ignore cover.

Dark Angels love their Salvo.

tremere47 wrote:
This single rule makes my favorite unit in all 40k, Noise Marines, almost useless

Ironic, I've found noise marines to be very useful. Not only are sonic blasters good, but 5 man squads with blastmasters are fantastic.

For the love of the Pantheon, FAQ this back to Assault 2/ Heavy 3 of the previous Codex.

Doubt it, working as intended.

Biomancy-->relentless---> move and fire with 3 shots and assualt

tremere47 wrote:
This single rule makes my favorite unit in all 40k, Noise Marines, almost useless

From what I've read, the popular opinion is exactly the opposite. I've seen people call them the best MEQs in the game with what they can take.

tremere47 wrote:

I can not move, and fire full range, or move and fire at half range. No chance to snap fire at full range, just straight half range.

They're Salvo 2/3 right? That's still 2 shots at the range you get if you move and ignores cover.

tremere47 wrote:

Oh yeah, you also can't assault!

You shouldn't be assaulting. You should be forcing camping units out of cover. That's why you have your sonic weapons. If you want an assault weapons there are better things in that codex for that purpose.

tremere47 wrote:

Without access to a drop pod,

Which you don't have anyway.

tremere47 wrote:

And trying to run a Rhino across the board will get it blown up quickly. Putting them in a Land Raider is simply to expensive.

That can be said for anyone.

tremere47 wrote:

For the love of the Pantheon, FAQ this back to Assault 2/ Heavy 3 of the previous Codex.

Jeally of Psycannons, Traitor?

From what I've read, the popular opinion is exactly the opposite. I've seen people call them the best MEQs in the game with what they can take.

Not because of Sonic Blasters, but the Blastmaster and Doom Siren.

My ravenwing love salvo bolters. Maybe that one weapon in your codex doesn't work for what you're trying to do, but the actual BRB salvo rules work for me.

 Wilytank wrote:

tremere47 wrote:
This single rule makes my favorite unit in all 40k, Noise Marines, almost useless

From what I've read, the popular opinion is exactly the opposite. I've seen people call them the best MEQs in the game with what they can take.

tremere47 wrote:

I can not move, and fire full range, or move and fire at half range. No chance to snap fire at full range, just straight half range.

They're Salvo 2/3 right? That's still 2 shots at the range you get if you move and ignores cover.

tremere47 wrote:

Oh yeah, you also can't assault!

You shouldn't be assaulting. You should be forcing camping units out of cover. That's why you have your sonic weapons. If you want an assault weapons there are better things in that codex for that purpose.

tremere47 wrote:

Without access to a drop pod,

Which you don't have anyway.

tremere47 wrote:

And trying to run a Rhino across the board will get it blown up quickly. Putting them in a Land Raider is simply to expensive.

That can be said for anyone.

tremere47 wrote:

For the love of the Pantheon, FAQ this back to Assault 2/ Heavy 3 of the previous Codex.

Jeally of Psycannons, Traitor?

It's either full shots at max range or the second amount of shots at half range.

On a non-relentless unit, it kind of sucks, but it's a 3 shot bolter that ignores cover at 24"... can't complain to much.

Is it me or are there a lot of threads out there lately about how rule is "dumb"?

Sure, but thats because there are plenty of dumb rules to talk about.

Barrage for instance. feth you barrage. Salvo >>> Barrage any day.

Sorry, but the Fear universal rule is by far worse than the Salvo rule.

I too do find it rather limiting and wish that the Sonic blaster had its old rules, but having said that Sonic Blaster noise marines are the ultimate objective campers.

Noise marines do not mix weapons. You take the sonic blaster and camp on an objective, or you key up for HTH and don't put any sonic blasters in the squad.

 Jayden63 wrote:
Sorry, but the Fear universal rule is by far worse than the Salvo rule.

I too do find it rather limiting and wish that the Sonic blaster had its old rules, but having said that Sonic Blaster noise marines are the ultimate objective campers.

Noise marines do not mix weapons. You take the sonic blaster and camp on an objective, or you key up for HTH and don't put any sonic blasters in the squad.

In that case, you don't take noise marines but regular CSMs with Slaanesh marks etc.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

 Jayden63 wrote:
Sorry, but the Fear universal rule is by far worse than the Salvo rule.

I too do find it rather limiting and wish that the Sonic blaster had its old rules, but having said that Sonic Blaster noise marines are the ultimate objective campers.

Noise marines do not mix weapons. You take the sonic blaster and camp on an objective, or you key up for HTH and don't put any sonic blasters in the squad.

In that case, you don't take noise marines but regular CSMs with Slaanesh marks etc.

You can't get fearless except by joining an IC and fearless is totally worth the price difference. You also cant get the ultimate noise weapon the doom siren without taking noise marines. Noise marines have their place, but you have to give them job and the equipment to do said job. You can't just throw them at this, that, and everything.

It's you, the dumbest rule is actually "grounding tests".

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It's you, the dumbest rule is actually "grounding tests".

here here ...though LoS MindWar was up there

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It's you, the dumbest rule is actually "grounding tests".

I think you'll find that "Righteous Zeal" is dumber still in its current incarnation...

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It's you, the dumbest rule is actually "grounding tests".

I think you'll find that "Righteous Zeal" is dumber still in its current incarnation...

What page is that? I can't find it anywhere.

 PrinceRaven wrote:

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It's you, the dumbest rule is actually "grounding tests".

I think you'll find that "Righteous Zeal" is dumber still in its current incarnation...

What page is that? I can't find it anywhere.

Black Templar codex.

Well if it's not in the rulebook it's not "the dumbest rule in the book", it's potentially the dumbest rule in a codex though.

Nitpick.

Back to topic, salvo is awesome and I wish tau had some.

Heck, pulse rifles SHOULD be salvo. ad it would have ROCKED.
Also, salvo 1/1 (1 shot at full range while still, still 1 shot when moving, but only half range.) on the railside might have made his Nerf slightly less awful.


What you seem to miss, is that Salvo is intended as DEFENSIVE gun (ravenwing butchered that a bit, someone screwed that one up.)
If you want to go on the offensive, get the combat upgrades.

No need for all upgrade options to go the same direction,

Back when the Tau codex was only a rumor I was really hoping for tau weapons to either be assault 2 or heavy 3, and you could pick each turn. Of course, i was also hoping for flechette drones...

and the fact the rail rifle is still twin linked means that with 2 markerlights you're back up and running. Move, paint the target with 2 markerlights, fire your snap shot at BS 3 twin linked. 75% chance to hit. makes missile broadsides have an effective 42" range. That said, salvo would have been a cool rules implementation. I miss my gyro stabilizers

I still fail.to see the "dumbness" of salvo. It, in effect, uses the old rapid fire rules to increase close-in shooting. There are few reasons to send Noise Marines into CC, so using a salvo weapon really just punishes anyone who strays too close. My buddy, who runs a lot of Noise Marines, hasn't really had to adjust his tactics too much and his NMs are still a major threat, and usually, they are walking.

Adjustment is a necessity in gaming and in life. When things change, calling them dumb is the facile way to say you can't roll with the changes.

But doesnt salvo stop you from charging? It would be counter intuitive to put them on assault units .

They're Salvo 2/3 right? That's still 2 shots at the range you get if you move and ignores cover.

A sonic blaster armed noise marine costs more then 2 bolter csm and they will always have 2 str4 attacks with same BS at 24" all the time and can take plasma guns.

A sonic blaster noise marine costs 5 more points than MoS Chaos Marine (7 for a naked CSM). And he's Fearless with a significantly better defensive weapon (with that sweet Ignores Cover). Fearless is a really big deal BTW.

But aye, a basic CSM is pretty damn good for what they bring to the table with their cheapness and special weapon options.

TzeentchNet wrote:
A sonic blaster noise marine costs 5 more points than MoS Chaos Marine (7 for a naked CSM). And he's Fearless with a significantly better defensive weapon (with that sweet Ignores Cover). Fearless is a really big deal BTW.

But aye, a basic CSM is pretty damn good for what they bring to the table with their cheapness and special weapon options.

Fearless is also a curse, considering you cannot go to ground.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:
A sonic blaster noise marine costs 5 more points than MoS Chaos Marine (7 for a naked CSM). And he's Fearless with a significantly better defensive weapon (with that sweet Ignores Cover). Fearless is a really big deal BTW.

But aye, a basic CSM is pretty damn good for what they bring to the table with their cheapness and special weapon options.

Fearless is also a curse, considering you cannot go to ground.

Fearless is very much worth not getting run off the board because you rolled badly against a fear roll imposed on you by a Tervigon you were trying to kill. Also the Icon is pretty nice on them.

 Kain wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

TzeentchNet wrote:
A sonic blaster noise marine costs 5 more points than MoS Chaos Marine (7 for a naked CSM). And he's Fearless with a significantly better defensive weapon (with that sweet Ignores Cover). Fearless is a really big deal BTW.

But aye, a basic CSM is pretty damn good for what they bring to the table with their cheapness and special weapon options.

Fearless is also a curse, considering you cannot go to ground.

Fearless is very much worth not getting run off the board because you rolled badly against a fear roll imposed on you by a Tervigon you were trying to kill. Also the Icon is pretty nice on them.

My meta is nearly 80% shooting, I havn't had to take a fear test in...ever.