Switch Theme:

New Jersey to ban 'gay conversion therapy'  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 Frazzled wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
Rationality kind of goes out the window when there's never once been a solid logical argument against gay rights, or the tolerance of gays.


You just supported his point actually. "If you're opposed to me you're insane" ok...


Well, no, not really. If someone can make a rational argument concerning the invalidity of gays, or provide evidence that gay-conversion "therapy" is actually effective and not harmful, there might be something to talk about. I'd be totally happy to discuss it. But as it is, I've yet to see a single good argument for either case.
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 Frazzled wrote:
How about "I don't give a gak. Just stay off my yard."

Keep your balls out of my backyard?

DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Frazzled wrote:
Also we just don't care. Just stay out of our trees you steenking squirrel lovers!

Texas haz steenking treez? o.O

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Fafnir wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 Fafnir wrote:
Rationality kind of goes out the window when there's never once been a solid logical argument against gay rights, or the tolerance of gays.


You just supported his point actually. "If you're opposed to me you're insane" ok...


Well, no, not really. If someone can make a rational argument concerning the invalidity of gays, or provide evidence that gay-conversion "therapy" is actually effective and not harmful, there might be something to talk about. I'd be totally happy to discuss it. But as it is, I've yet to see a single good argument for either case.


Who defined you as being the arbiter of rational?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
Also we just don't care. Just stay out of our trees you steenking squirrel lovers!

Texas haz steenking treez? o.O


Only when they are infested by the evil squirrel menace.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 20:29:56


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

 generalgrog wrote:
Instead of the ...oh I don't know rational way of discussing things.


If you would like to present an argument as to the validity of 'gay conversion therapy', I'm sure many would be interested to hear it.

;-)

Personally, I see this as a feature, not a bug, so to speak. Similar to how racism has been vilified to a point that, while it's certainly not gone, it's not nearly as tolerated in public discourse. It speaks highly of the character of Dakka as a forum that the members are either accepting and tolerant of others orientations, or at least know well enough to keep their terrible opinions to themselves.

I'm not sure why there needs to be a discussion; New Jersey thinks it's bad, they're banning it, that's another very, very, very small step in the right direction towards gay americans having equal rights. Not all opinions are equally valid, not every issue needs both sides championed, either in earnest or by a devil's advocate.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 21:01:20


 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 generalgrog wrote:
Thanks for proving my point. Polonius.

This is the typical...If you believe a certain way then you are an idiot..internet beat down.

Instead of the ...oh I don't know rational way of discussing things.


Polonius didn't call you an idiot. He merely stated the obvious: if you hold an opinion which is contentious, then voicing it will lead to criticism. This criticism is key to discussing things in a rational manner.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

Every day that we get closer to this comic is a good day:

(Mild language)

Spoiler:
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Forar wrote:
 generalgrog wrote:
Instead of the ...oh I don't know rational way of discussing things.


If you would like to present an argument as to the validity of 'gay conversion therapy', I'm sure many would be interested to hear it.

;-)

Personally, I see this as a feature, not a bug, so to speak. Similar to how racism has been vilified to a point that, while it's certainly not gone, it's not nearly as tolerated in public discourse. It speaks highly of the character of Dakka as a forum that the members are either accepting and tolerant of others orientations, or at least know well enough to keep their terrible opinions to themselves.

I'm not sure why there needs to be a discussion; New Jersey thinks it's bad, they're banning it, that's another very, very, very small step in the right direction towards gay americans having equal rights. Not all opinions are equally valid, not every issue needs both sides championed, either in earnest or by a devil's advocate.


fafnir...I'm not an expert on the subject of "gay conversion therapy", as I'm assuming that neither are you.

The issue is whether or not gay people are born that way, and if they are (which I don't believe for second) than it would be like trying to make a black person "not black" That's the way the argument is presented, and I believe it's a fallacious argument, in that it begs the question that gay people are born that way.

So the homosexual lobby has been very successful in presenting their "civil rights" argumentation to the general public, and since the general public is so scared of not being politically correct and not wanting to offend anyone, and compounded with the general move towards secularism, they are having success.

I'm fully aware that our society has turned a corner, athiests and or secularists would say this is a good thing. And I personally don't have a problem with homosexuals. What I do have a problem with is the constant Godwinism thrown out there by the left wing and the homsexual lobby, which accuses anyone with conservative religious views as being racist, when the exact opposite is the truth.

When was the last time someone from the KKK, went into a nursing home to pray for people, or fed the hungry, or prayed with homosexuals(not even about homosexuality)

My point is that as a Christian sin is sin, whether or not its homosexual sin or heterosexual sin.

GG

   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

 generalgrog wrote:


fafnir...I'm not an expert on the subject of "gay conversion therapy", as I'm assuming that neither are you.

The issue is whether or not gay people are born that way, and if they are (which I don't believe for second)


Then how do you explain the physiological differences between heterosexual and homosexual individuals (otoacoustic emissions, differences/irregularities in amygdala size, general trends in long-bone growth)? Additionally, what about biological evidence concerning the inheritence of homosexuality (Fraternal Birth Order Effect, for example).

Simon LeVay, an actual expert in the field, does a far better run-down than I ever could:
http://www.simonlevay.com/the-science-of-sexual-orientation

As well as an actual research paper he wrote on the difference in a very important part of the brain between heterosexual and homosexual men:
http://www.simonlevay.com/research-publications

than it would be like trying to make a black person "not black" That's the way the argument is presented, and I believe it's a fallacious argument, in that it begs the question that gay people are born that way.


And the general scientific consensus is that children are indeed born gay, or that biology has a very considerable impact on one's sexuality.

You can believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/08/23 22:20:29


 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 generalgrog wrote:
fafnir...I'm not an expert on the subject of "gay conversion therapy", as I'm assuming that neither are you.


You don't need to be an expert, you just need to do even a minimal amount of research to see that it doesn't work and the entire argument in favor of it is based on the fact that it aligns well with a certain ideology. The only question that remains is whether it is a case of a sincere but misguided attempt to help people, or fraud.

The issue is whether or not gay people are born that way, and if they are (which I don't believe for second)


Too bad. Just like 1+1=2 no matter how much you might want to believe otherwise it is pretty well established that sexual preferences are heavily influenced, if not entirely determined, by biology and not conscious choice. People can choose how to act on their sexual preferences (the cliche of a gay man marrying and having kids because of their religion but never being happy, for example), but suppressing them doesn't make them go away.

So the homosexual lobby has been very successful in presenting their "civil rights" argumentation to the general public, and since the general public is so scared of not being politically correct and not wanting to offend anyone, and compounded with the general move towards secularism, they are having success.


You know, it's funny that you would dismiss this as being afraid of not being "politically correct", but (presumably) you would be pretty unhappy if there was a law that members of your religion were not allowed to get married. But that would be a much more reasonable law since, unlike being gay or not, religion is very clearly a conscious choice to associate with a particular group.

My point is that as a Christian sin is sin, whether or not its homosexual sin or heterosexual sin.


So are you just as outraged about people who eat shellfish? After all, sin is sin whether it's sexual sin or food sin.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/23 23:20:23


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 generalgrog wrote:

The issue is whether or not gay people are born that way, and if they are (which I don't believe for second) than it would be like trying to make a black person "not black" That's the way the argument is presented, and I believe it's a fallacious argument, in that it begs the question that gay people are born that way.


Whether or not homosexual people are born homosexual is irrelevant and, from a political perspective, little more than a means of creating a catchy slogan.

The question is whether or not people who choose to engage in the sort of lifestyle that entails sexual congress with members of the same sex should be extended the same privileges granted to those who prefer members of the opposite sex. In this context the dispute over homosexual marriage is as much a civil rights issue as interracial marriage given that, in both cases, the relevant parties have the option to choose alternative partners.

 Peregrine wrote:

So are you just as outraged about people who eat shellfish? After all, sin is sin whether it's sexual sin or food sin.


That's a lazy argument. Christians are not necessarily bound by the Old Testament.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/24 00:52:30


Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 dogma wrote:
That's a lazy argument. Christians are not necessarily bound by the Old Testament.


Then why do they frequently quote laws from the exact same part of the bible as an argument against homosexuality?

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 Peregrine wrote:
 dogma wrote:
That's a lazy argument. Christians are not necessarily bound by the Old Testament.


Then why do they frequently quote laws from the exact same part of the bible as an argument against homosexuality?


I think we shouldn't lump Christians in with each other like that. It isn't Christians as a whole who are doing this, any more than it is dakka as a whole who was going after Mandelbonder a while ago like he complained.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 motyak wrote:
I think we shouldn't lump Christians in with each other like that.


I'm not. This is clearly about a specific subset of Christians, and generalgrog in particular.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Dwarf High King with New Book of Grudges




United States

 Peregrine wrote:
 dogma wrote:
That's a lazy argument. Christians are not necessarily bound by the Old Testament.


Then why do they frequently quote laws from the exact same part of the bible as an argument against homosexuality?


Because the prohibition against homosexuality is carried over in the New Testament, which Christians are bound by.

In essence, any text within the OT which is confirmed by the NT can be taken as evidence regarding the whole of the concept being referenced. Anything not confirmed by the NT, however, is only tangentially relevant if it is relevant at all.

Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Fafnir wrote:
 generalgrog wrote:


fafnir...I'm not an expert on the subject of "gay conversion therapy", as I'm assuming that neither are you.

The issue is whether or not gay people are born that way, and if they are (which I don't believe for second)


Then how do you explain the physiological differences between heterosexual and homosexual individuals (otoacoustic emissions, differences/irregularities in amygdala size, general trends in long-bone growth)? Additionally, what about biological evidence concerning the inheritence of homosexuality (Fraternal Birth Order Effect, for example).

Simon LeVay, an actual expert in the field, does a far better run-down than I ever could:
http://www.simonlevay.com/the-science-of-sexual-orientation

As well as an actual research paper he wrote on the difference in a very important part of the brain between heterosexual and homosexual men:
http://www.simonlevay.com/research-publications

than it would be like trying to make a black person "not black" That's the way the argument is presented, and I believe it's a fallacious argument, in that it begs the question that gay people are born that way.


And the general scientific consensus is that children are indeed born gay, or that biology has a very considerable impact on one's sexuality.

You can believe whatever you want, but that doesn't make it any less wrong.


fafnir..I will look into Simon Levay. However, I will tell you that after doing a quick look at his bio, I see that he is openly gay. So I immediately get the jaundiced eye of caution and question how much bias goes into his research. Having said that, I will look at what you linked.

I also question how much the gay lifestyle can change things physically for themselves? I guess what I'm saying is, how much of these differences he supposedly found are an effect of the lifestyle as opposed to the cause of it. Again I don't know, but its a question in my mind.

I mean alcoholics have liver differences, then a non alcoholic.(I'm just using this as an example..not saying they are exactly the same)

GG


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 dogma wrote:
 Peregrine wrote:
 dogma wrote:
That's a lazy argument. Christians are not necessarily bound by the Old Testament.


Then why do they frequently quote laws from the exact same part of the bible as an argument against homosexuality?


Because the prohibition against homosexuality is carried over in the New Testament, which Christians are bound by.

In essence, any text within the OT which is confirmed by the NT can be taken as evidence regarding the whole of the concept being referenced. Anything not confirmed by the NT, however, is only tangentially relevant if it is relevant at all.


Dogma is essentially correct here, and we have been over this ground many times.

Orthodox Christian doctrine teaches that humanity is utterly depraved, and that the levitical law was there for a few reasons, moral/universal laws(10 commandments among others), national laws(things like how to deal with divorce & slavery), and holiness laws(things like special fabrics in clothes, what to eat and drink). Christianity teaches that Jesus crucifixion paid for the sins of believers so there is no need to follow the national, and holiness laws. However the moral and universal laws are written in our hearts and we must strive to live up to these.

That's way to short of an explanation, hope fully clears things up a bit.

However I wouldn't use the terminology dogma used, because I wouldn't say that Christians are "bound by the new testament". That sounds too legalistic to me. The new testament contains teachings and guidance, in the form of Historical documentation, and letters written to the churches and Christians of the times.

GG

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/24 02:37:28


 
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

In studies on rats, alterations in hormone levels in the brain have only been shown to affect sexuality pre-natally.

Not to mention that, short of some very strange kinks(that has absolutely nothing to do with sexual orientation), homosexual activities do not involve ingesting any materials that would alter someone's physiology, let alone in a way that you would suggest.
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Aschknas, Sturmkrieg Sektor

This is great. The next step is to make it child abuse for parents to do it.

As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.

Search engine for Warhammer 40,000 websites
Note: Ads are placed by Google since it uses their service. Sturmkrieg does not make any money from the use of this service.

The Vault - Fallout Wiki Wikia still maintains their plagiarized copy 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
This is great. The next step is to make it child abuse for parents to do it.


This is precisely the danger that the political correct secularist poses to humanity.

GG
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 generalgrog wrote:
This is precisely the danger that the political correct secularist poses to humanity.


What, that people won't be able to abuse their children and use "god says so" as an excuse to avoid punishment? It's just like the people who decide that taking their kid to the hospital is against god's will and leave them to die, you don't get to overrule your kid's best interest just because it disagrees with your religion.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 generalgrog wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
This is great. The next step is to make it child abuse for parents to do it.


This is precisely the danger that the political correct secularist poses to humanity.

GG


How is it a danger to stop parents abusing their children? If something is proven to damage an individual psychologically, it doesn't matter if it is done in a setting like a gay conversion therapists office, or in a family home, its still psychological abuse.

I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

 generalgrog wrote:
 Inquisitor Ehrenstein wrote:
This is great. The next step is to make it child abuse for parents to do it.


This is precisely the danger that the political correct secularist poses to humanity.

GG


So we're ignoring the danger that rejecting entire swathes of the Human race simply because they don't like what you like poses?

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 generalgrog wrote:
Orthodox Christian doctrine teaches that humanity is utterly depraved, and that the levitical law was there for a few reasons, moral/universal laws(10 commandments among others), national laws(things like how to deal with divorce & slavery), and holiness laws(things like special fabrics in clothes, what to eat and drink). Christianity teaches that Jesus crucifixion paid for the sins of believers so there is no need to follow the national, and holiness laws. However the moral and universal laws are written in our hearts and we must strive to live up to these.


Yes, I know there's a way of rationalizing away all the laws that are too obviously silly or that people don't want to follow. But what it really comes down to is a belief that shrimp are tasty but two men having sex is gross, and all the biblical laws are interpreted in so that they follow that standard.

There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






The danger is to parents who teach their children that homosexuality is a sin can be branded as "brainwashing" their children & or harming them. And then all you have to do is call in the secular gestapo/cheka and arrest Christian parents for teaching them Christian doctrine. Then we may as well be back to Pol Pot.

This is highly offensive at the bare minimum, and highly dangerous thinking.

People should be ashamed to think this way.

GG
   
Made in au
[MOD]
Not as Good as a Minion






Brisbane

 generalgrog wrote:
The danger is to parents who teach their children that homosexuality is a sin can be branded as "brainwashing" their children & or harming them.


Ah, I misunderstood your initial post. I think it is perfectly alright for parents to teach their kids that Christianity believes that homosexuality is a sin. I thought you were meaning that this "gay conversion therapy" should be allowed to be carried out at home by the parents. Because that would be brainwashing and harming them. If their kid is gay, then they need to accept that, and every time they push against it they are risking damaging him for life, and that is where it becomes bad parenting and negligent.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/24 03:19:50


I wish I had time for all the game systems I own, let alone want to own... 
   
Made in us
Aspirant Tech-Adept






Aschknas, Sturmkrieg Sektor

 generalgrog wrote:
The danger is to parents who teach their children that homosexuality is a sin can be branded as "brainwashing" their children & or harming them. And then all you have to do is call in the secular gestapo/cheka and arrest Christian parents for teaching them Christian doctrine. Then we may as well be back to Pol Pot.

This is highly offensive at the bare minimum, and highly dangerous thinking.

People should be ashamed to think this way.

GG


Ehrenstein's Law

I am against politically correct nonsense.

If part of a religion involves promoting hatred or child abuse, than you can't teach it to your kids.

As a discussion grows in length, the probability of a comparison to Matt Ward or Gray Knights approaches one.

Search engine for Warhammer 40,000 websites
Note: Ads are placed by Google since it uses their service. Sturmkrieg does not make any money from the use of this service.

The Vault - Fallout Wiki Wikia still maintains their plagiarized copy 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut






UK

People should be ashamed to think that they have any sort of right to force their own ideals upon another human being.

Teaching children that homosexuality is a sin is essentially bringing them up to commit acts of hate crime and speech. Bringing them up to make their own judgements and understand that regardless of those judgements, opinions, and beliefs, everyone's lives are their own to live, is perfectly acceptable.

In short, telling them "I believe homosexuality is a sin, it is your place to make your own choice on that matter" is infinitely better than saying "I believe homosexuality is a sin and so must you", because the latter is stripping a human being of their innate freedoms and subjecting them to become a slave to your reasoning and beliefs alone.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/24 03:25:40


Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

Excerpt from "Seeress of Kell", Book Five of The Malloreon series by David Eddings.

My deviantART Profile - Pay No Attention To The Man Behind The Madness

"You need not fear us, unless you are a dark heart, a vile one who preys on the innocent; I promise, you can’t hide forever in the empty darkness, for we will hunt you down like the animals you are, and pull you into the very bowels of hell." Iron - Within Temptation 
   
Made in us
Douglas Bader






 generalgrog wrote:
The danger is to parents who teach their children that homosexuality is a sin can be branded as "brainwashing" their children & or harming them.


Sorry, but in many cases it IS brainwashing. The kid wants no part of their parents' religious beliefs, but the parents refuse to let it go. There is a long and ugly history of children being abused by their parents (causing considerable long-term harm) because of their "sin", and you can't just ignore that context.

But let's give you a slightly different situation: I am a devout atheist and think that religion is harmful nonsense. So let's say I have a kid, and despite my best efforts to show them how awesome it is to sleep in on sunday mornings they decide to become a Christian. Would it be ok for me to ban them from attending church or spending time with their religious friends, confiscate their bibles, lecture them on how they're being gullible idiots if they dare to mention their belief in god, and send them to atheism summer camp every year? If not, why is this any different from the parent who does the same kind of things to their gay kid?

And then all you have to do is call in the secular gestapo/cheka and arrest Christian parents for teaching them Christian doctrine. Then we may as well be back to Pol Pot.


Is this now a competition to post the most ridiculous slippery slope "argument"?

Also, don't forget that not all Christians believe that homosexuality is wrong. So even in your absurd slippery slope you're talking about arresting people for teaching your particular version of Christianity, not for teaching Christian doctrine in general.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/24 03:36:02


There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






 Avatar 720 wrote:
People should be ashamed to think that they have any sort of right to force their own ideals upon another human being.

Teaching children that homosexuality is a sin is essentially bringing them up to commit acts of hate crime and speech. Bringing them up to make their own judgements and understand that regardless of those judgements, opinions, and beliefs, everyone's lives are their own to live, is perfectly acceptable.

In short, telling them "I believe homosexuality is a sin, it is your place to make your own choice on that matter" is infinitely better than saying "I believe homosexuality is a sin and so must you", because the latter is stripping a human being of their innate freedoms and subjecting them to become a slave to your reasoning and beliefs alone.


First of all..it's your opinion that "Teaching children that homosexuality is a sin is essentially bringing them up to commit acts of hate crime and speech"

This is your opinion and only that.

Secondly Parents have the right to teach their children the way they believe their children should be brought up. This is a fundamental human right. Shame on you for trying to take that away from someone, because your opinion disagrees with theirs.

GG
   
Made in ca
Renegade Inquisitor with a Bound Daemon





Tied and gagged in the back of your car

As someone who has a friend who once attempted suicide because they were constantly burdened with the 'sinful nature' of their lifestyle (that they certainly did not ask for), I'd say that those who teach that homosexuality is evil and sinful are far more dangerous than homosexuality or political correctness could ever be.
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: