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DENVER — You’ve got North Carolina and North Dakota, so why not Northern Colorado?
Voters in several rural Colorado counties will be asked whether they want to form a new state tentatively named Northern Colorado in the November election, a reaction to the Democrat-controlled state legislature’s “war on rural Colorado.”
The Weld County Commissioners voted unanimously at Monday’s meeting to place a measure on the Nov. 5 ballot asking voters whether they want the county to join other rural counties in forming another state.
“The concerns of rural Coloradans have been ignored for years,” William Garcia, chairman of the Weld County Commissioners, said in a statement. “The last session was the straw that broke the camel’s back for many people. They want change. They want to be heard.”
Three other rural counties — Cheyenne, Sedgwick and Yuma — also plan to place the 51st state referendum on the fall ballot. At least three more counties plan to consider the proposal this week at their commission meetings, said Jeffrey Hare, spokesman for the 51st State Initiative.
Known for its agriculture and oil and gas production, Weld is the largest of the Colorado counties exploring a break with the state after the legislature’s sharp turn to the left with bills restricting access to firearms and doubling the state’s renewable-energy mandate for rural areas.
Democrats control both houses of the legislature and the governor’s office. Two Democratic state senators — Angela Giron and John Morse — are facing Sept. 10 recall elections in response to the legislature’s gun control votes.
Forming a state isn’t easy: Even if the ballot measures pass, the Colorado state legislature would be required to amend the constitution to configure the state’s borders and refer a request for a new state to Congress.
Approving a 51st state would require a majority vote of both houses of Congress, although the Constitution doesn’t require the signature of the president, Mr. Hare said.
“Again, folks say this can never happen. However, we are starting to hear from disenfranchised groups all over the country,” said a post on the 51st State Initiative’s website. “We are truly a divided nation. It is possible, if not likely, that we may not be the only group requesting from Congress the formation of a new state.”
This isn’t the first time disgruntled residents have explored the option of a state split. In the past few decades, movements have sprung up in favor of carving California and Washington into two states.
New York has had a host of proposals aimed at peeling off jurisdictions, including New York City, upstate New York and western New York. The most recent effort was in 2008, when the Suffolk County comptroller proposed splitting off Long Island.
Since the boundaries of the newly independent Colonies were finalized in the 1790s, two states have gained that status by breaking off from extant states. Maine was part of Massachusetts until 1820, and West Virginia seceded from Virginia during the Civil War.
Given the complexities involved with creating a state, Mr. Hare said, the Northern Colorado movement is considering two other options: asking Wyoming to annex Colorado’s northern counties or requesting that the state legislature redraw its Senate districts to give a senator to each of the state’s 64 counties, analogous to how the U.S. apportions seats by state, regardless of their populations.
Colorado now has 35 senators in districts drawn by population, giving the state’s urban areas far greater sway in the state legislature.
“People are looking for hope because they feel like the government is out of control,” said Mr. Hare. “They feel kind of hopeless.”
Weld County Commissioner Sean Conway called Monday’s vote “a very positive move forward” that “gives us a chance to address our grievances from the last legislative session.”
The Greeley Tribune came out against the statehood movement in an Aug. 7 editorial, “Time to drop 51st state idea.”
“While we understand and agree with the message commissioners are trying to send to Denver — rural counties feel disenfranchised — we think Weld residents would be better served if commissioners drop the 51st state idea and focus on engaging the state’s political leaders in a constructive dialogue that addresses their issues,” the editorial said.
Here's the map:
I have family in the Denver area... Denver is becoming very much like San Francisco. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Just painting a picture for you guys...
My gut reaction? Naw... don't do this. But, then... if we can get Puerto Rico or the Virgin Islands in as 52nd state? I might be cool with that.
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rubiksnoob wrote: Perhaps the logistics of incorporating a 52nd state into the Union would present an opportunity to finally do away with the Electoral College.
I think our founding fathers were bang on with the Electoral College idea. It won't go away, they'll just add a few more votes to the system, or since their just splitting off from Colorado, split a portion of Colorado's votes off. And it'll be the 51st state...
djones520 wrote: We've precedence with West Virginia splitting off from Virginia, but this would certainly be a big thing if it goes through. Shake a lot of things up.
Technically, it wasn't. While the Federal Government considered the Southern states still part of the Union, they didn't when the western counties of Virginia asked to return to the Union.
Wasn't there some talk years ago about California splitting into North and South? The big question though is which party has the most to gain from this.
This came up in Illinois last year I think it was, similar instance, IL politics are dominated by democrats from chicago / cook county so there was some talk of trying to make Chicago / cook county its own state
As a resident of Northern California I'd absolutely be in favor of splitting it in two. Not necessarily because my political views are ignored (they are, I'm a libertarian) but because the state of CA is too big to manage at this point. I mean it's painfully obvious.
Plus you know, SoCal is always stealing our water.
Veteran Sergeant wrote:Oh wait. His fluff, at this point, has him coming to blows with Lionel, Angryon, Magnus, and The Emprah. One can only assume he went into the Eye of Terror because he still hadn't had a chance to punch enough Primarchs yet.
Albatross wrote:I guess we'll never know. That is, until Frazzled releases his long-awaited solo album 'Touch My Weiner'. Then we'll know.
warboss wrote:I marvel at their ability to shoot the entire foot off with a shotgun instead of pistol shooting individual toes off like most businesses would.
Mr Nobody wrote:Going to war naked always seems like a good idea until someone trips on gravel.
Ghidorah wrote: You need to quit hating and trying to control other haters hating on other people's hobbies that they are trying to control.
ShumaGorath wrote:Posting in a thread where fat nerds who play with toys make fun of fat nerds who wear costumes outdoors.
Marshal2Crusaders wrote:Good thing it wasn't attacked by the EC, or it would be the assault on Magnir's Crack.
Perhaps we could do the same with Illinois, and then we could help offset the deficit by taking bets on whether rural Illinois or the State of Chicago collapses financially first.
While part of me would like to see the folks seeking to secede from Colorado be successful if not for any other reason than to see such a grass roots initiative succeed, I think logistically and politically it's folly.
Logistically you have to figure out how to divvy up the public debt (if any) especially if it is for things that supposedly did not directly benefit the part of the state that will remain or leave. Also, there is the impact to tax rates. Is the area that is proposing to secede a net donor or a net receiver of state funding? How will the immediate shortfalls/surplus be addressed? Also, a separate state bureaucracy would have to be created and staffed. Supposedly you could assume that those currently working for the state in the affected areas would just roll over into the equivalent position for the new state, but that would be a gross assumption and I am sure the details would be stickier than that. There maybe services that are only staffed in other parts of the state. All of that is just the tip of the iceberg. Heck thinking of the term iceberg makes me think about how would water and mineral rights be dealt with?
Politically the big challenge is from Colorado's and other state's perspective, their political influence would take a hit. The new state would have its own Senators (2 Republican presumably) and would get their representative out of the 435 apportionment that is set by law. Maybe Colorado loses 1 or 2, but maybe it might be another state that loses a representative. This is part of the reason why Puerto Rico as the 51st state has never really gone anywhere despite majority support for state hood in that territory. Of course the critical difference here is the new state is made up of fully enfranchised American Citizens.
So again, I think it would be cool, and would definitely be a water political moment given that it would likely spur similar campaigns in other states, maybe Western PA, Eastern and Northern California, Southern and West Texas, North Florida, Upstate New York, the list can go on and on. Thus it will get headlines for a while, but ultimately will fade away.
"Preach the gospel always, If necessary use words." ~ St. Francis of Assisi
Lord of Deeds wrote: This is part of the reason why Puerto Rico as the 51st state has never really gone anywhere despite majority support for state hood in that territory. Of course the critical difference here is the new state is made up of fully enfranchised American Citizens.
It's a lot more complicated than that, though.
Peurto Rico has historically not had majority support for statehood. And while the referndum did return 60% in favor of statehood, that's only of the 75% that marked a choice. Meaning less than a majority of the voters actively supported statehood.
I think if PR wants to be a state we should let them in, and figure out the logistics later, but I wouldn't call the public support overwhelming.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/21 17:59:50
daedalus wrote: Perhaps we could do the same with Illinois, and then we could help offset the deficit by taking bets on whether rural Illinois or the State of Chicago collapses financially first.
I'd think a state financial collapse happens first before any new states pops up. As polonious stated, it's easier to try and engage the process than to start splitting off...
rubiksnoob wrote: Perhaps the logistics of incorporating a 52nd state into the Union would present an opportunity to finally do away with the Electoral College.
I think our founding fathers were bang on with the Electoral College idea. It won't go away, they'll just add a few more votes to the system, or since their just splitting off from Colorado, split a portion of Colorado's votes off. And it'll be the 51st state...
Wouldn't it be much easier nowadays to simply have a direct popular vote? I mean, American Idol can do it, why can't the Federal government?
As others have mentioned, due to the way the EC works, a 51st state proposal ruffles to many political feathers to ever succeed. Doing away with the College would make it easier to admit new states to the Union by removing the political incentive to oppose admitting new states.
If I had to take a guess, I would imagine the economic benefits of adding new states would outweigh the costs, thus making adding them a positive thing (I may be wrong, though). I'm not sure if the same would apply to splitting existing states, however. If I'm right, though, wouldn't it be worth it to toss out the EC in order to bring more states into the Union?
rubiksnoob wrote: Perhaps the logistics of incorporating a 52nd state into the Union would present an opportunity to finally do away with the Electoral College.
I think our founding fathers were bang on with the Electoral College idea. It won't go away, they'll just add a few more votes to the system, or since their just splitting off from Colorado, split a portion of Colorado's votes off. And it'll be the 51st state...
Wouldn't it be much easier nowadays to simply have a direct popular vote? I mean, American Idol can do it, why can't the Federal government?
As others have mentioned, due to the way the EC works, a 51st state proposal ruffles to many political feathers to ever succeed. Doing away with the College would make it easier to admit new states to the Union by removing the political incentive to oppose admitting new states.
If I had to take a guess, I would imagine the economic benefits of adding new states would outweigh the costs, thus making adding them a positive thing (I may be wrong, though). I'm not sure if the same would apply to splitting existing states, however. If I'm right, though, wouldn't it be worth it to toss out the EC in order to bring more states into the Union?
They've somehow managed to make the system work with the introduction of 37 other states, I'm not seeing how 1 more would screw the pooch.
rubiksnoob wrote: Perhaps the logistics of incorporating a 52nd state into the Union would present an opportunity to finally do away with the Electoral College.
I think our founding fathers were bang on with the Electoral College idea. It won't go away, they'll just add a few more votes to the system, or since their just splitting off from Colorado, split a portion of Colorado's votes off. And it'll be the 51st state...
Wouldn't it be much easier nowadays to simply have a direct popular vote? I mean, American Idol can do it, why can't the Federal government?
As others have mentioned, due to the way the EC works, a 51st state proposal ruffles to many political feathers to ever succeed. Doing away with the College would make it easier to admit new states to the Union by removing the political incentive to oppose admitting new states.
If I had to take a guess, I would imagine the economic benefits of adding new states would outweigh the costs, thus making adding them a positive thing (I may be wrong, though). I'm not sure if the same would apply to splitting existing states, however. If I'm right, though, wouldn't it be worth it to toss out the EC in order to bring more states into the Union?
They've somehow managed to make the system work with the introduction of 37 other states, I'm not seeing how 1 more would screw the pooch.
I'm not saying that 1 more state would mess up the system, I'm saying that because of the way the system is set up, legislators from existing states have no real political incentive to OK the introduction of a new one.
Polonius wrote:It sounds like making the state senate more represenative of rural counties would be easier than creating a new state.
OTOH, this is more keeping with the modern politics of "throw a temper tantrum" rather than compromise.
This.
If we were to make a new state by dividing an existing one it shouldn't be so red counties can vote apart from blue counties. If anything, I'd favor breaking up California and Texas simply to decrease the power of both states in the electoral college (fat chance of either state, especially Texas, ever doing that though )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/08/21 18:57:46
And the culture war continues to lurch between tragedy and comedy.
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rubiksnoob wrote: As others have mentioned, due to the way the EC works, a 51st state proposal ruffles to many political feathers to ever succeed. Doing away with the College would make it easier to admit new states to the Union by removing the political incentive to oppose admitting new states.
The electoral college element is actually not that clear a political outcome. There'd be a Republican gain as they could bank on a Northern Colorado win, but they'd also lose the chance of being competitive in Southern Colorado.
The big deal in adding a new state is in getting two new senators, and you don't change that by adjusting the EC.
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LordofHats wrote: If we were to make a new state by dividing an existing one it shouldn't be so red counties can vote apart from blue counties. If anything, I'd favor breaking up California and Texas simply to decrease the power of both states in the electoral college (fat chance of either state, especially Texas, ever doing that though )
I think the primary consideration in dividing any state should be based primarily on how the people who live there might be best served by state government, to be honest. If there's a case that splitting up California into, well, possibly up to four states, would mean an improved standard of state government for the people, then it should be done, and the wins and losses to the Democrats/Republicans, and how it impacts the balance of federal politics should be just allowed to lie as it falls.
But unfortunately in the state of the politics you have right now, it seems the only question that ever gets asked is 'how will this affect the political balance?'
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/08/22 03:16:49
“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”
Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something.
I actually want a creation of the 51st state. This is like a once in a life time chance to see something that mythical happen that we only read about.
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If any state splits it should be California. North and South.
LA's stealing all the water we need for agriculture, they should have to pay for it through the nose. Although I'd personally rather they get cut off. Just enough to drink, let the lawns die.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
There has been talk of this in Oregon as well, except the split would be east - west.
The eastern part of the state, aka everything east of the cascade mountain range, is pretty darn tired of the population centers in the west making policy that affects them.
When most of the people in and from the population centers have no clue what life is like in the rural areas, except what they see when they drive through to somewhere else, or fly over.
Much the same problem the middle of the USA has, and it is called "fly over country."
That'd be fairly entertaining to watch. Suddenly the new state is bankrupt as all that urban tax income vanishes... Not that there's a chance in hell of it happening, as urban Coloradans outnumber rural dwellers five to one. There's kind of a reason they tend to write policy for the state.
Shadowseer_Kim wrote: When most of the people in and from the population centers have no clue what life is like in the rural areas, except what they see when they drive through to somewhere else, or fly over.
Wouldn't the opposite also be true? That people in rural areas have no clue what life is like in population centers?
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Shadowseer_Kim wrote: There has been talk of this in Oregon as well, except the split would be east - west.
The eastern part of the state, aka everything east of the cascade mountain range, is pretty darn tired of the population centers in the west making policy that affects them.
When most of the people in and from the population centers have no clue what life is like in the rural areas, except what they see when they drive through to somewhere else, or fly over.
Much the same problem the middle of the USA has, and it is called "fly over country."
It's truly awful when the will of the majority dictates the law.
I'm both selfish and rational. I'm scheming, secretive and manipulative; I use knowledge as a tool for personal gain, and in turn obtaining more knowledge. At best, I am mysterious and stealthy; at worst, I am distrustful and opportunistic.
deathholydeath wrote: It's truly awful when the will of the majority dictates the law.
Of course it is also pretty awful when the minority holds the majority hostage. Thankfully well thought out ideas aren't based on either being in the majority or minority. Just being in a minority opinion doesn't make one righteous and right, and neither does having a majority opinion either.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
I'd be fine with a few states splitting up. California for one. It's the most populated state by quite a large margin, and what is good for those way the hell up North aren't always applicable or beneficial for those down South.
The state doesn't split it's Electoral votes, despite having more than any other state, again by a large margin.
If Northern Colorado wants to be better represented and governed, then good for them.
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Just painting a picture for you guys...
One can only assume he went into the Eye of Terror because he still hadn't had a chance to punch enough Primarchs yet. 
