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I was a big fan of Sternies in the last edition and I was excited to see the new kits and the price reduction.

What was not hot was the combi-weapon nerf, which made taking combi's 2 points more expensive, and the fact that in the background other units that can fulfill the same role got buffed considerably, to the extent that I can't see how using Sternies as special weapon delivery systems is worth it anymore. Analysis will go on this basis that you're using them as SWDS, I can't see much other use, so if you think there is another use point it out.

Why?

A Sternguard Squad in a Rhino (actually useful if Khan Scars or RG) or Drop Pod with 4 Combi weapons. -195 points.

Sternguard arrive, fire, severely wound something or outright kill it. They only get one shot at it though, and the only way to give them re-rolls to hit iirc is Tiggy. But I'd argue that seeing as how the squad is already inefficient adding him is a poor choice. If you get poor luck with your combi-weapons then this squad is basically wasted, both in points and in what'll-inevitably-occur.

Providing you don't get slaughtered you've got ignores cover rounds, 2+ poisoned rounds and AP3 rounds.

Sounds good, until you realize that other units pull the party trick far better:

Command Squad, 4 specials, Rhino/DP. -165 to 195 depending on SW choice

All you lose is the ignores cover rounds effectively, and you can fire the specials as long as they last.

Even better off is:

Bike Command Squad, 5 Grav Guns. -210 points. (alternatively 4 Grav's and apothecary)

Ok, this really is the nail in the coffin for me. You get almost twice the amount of firepower given by plasmas, TL bolters for a weaker flamer substitute (but you can also charge, too) and you cripple vehicles through immobilized results which you can finish off in the assault. Concussive works well to support assaulting units and in turn with abilities like a Rune Priest allied in with JOTWW.

15 shots vs 8 for plasmas (admit it, you're going to be taking them the most) which may even be 4 if your opponent is the wiser to their potential or you get unlucky with range.

Then you can consider that after you fire you can charge, that you're T5 instead of 4 for increased durability, you get a 4+/5+ jink (taking into account 'Scars or turbo boost) for taking return fire like Riptide pie plates. If you were with the alternative option you're also getting a 5+ FNP.

Ignores cover rounds are nice, but they're only AP5 and most units with a 5+ armour save will probably come in large numbers. Firewarriors with 4+ armour saves aren't particularly bothered (yes, you can use AP4 rounds, but if your opponent leaves Firewarriors in cover which will is almost certain he'll still be getting saves)

I'm sure if you were to dig even harder you could find even more reasons to avoid Sternguard now, but this is the limit of what I can think of for the moment.

Someone convince me otherwise.

I agree! Their 'big problem' is probably that they took standard Veterans and upgraded them to Sternguard.
Sternguard don't need Ld9 on each model.
Sternguard don't need 2 attacks.
But they are paying a heavy fee for those things!

I also think that the Ignore Cover-ammo is their best trait and to be honest I would use Legion of the Damned for that.

You're assuming that you're taking sufficient HQ choices to unlock all of the command squads you want, and never taking more than 5-man squads. You can take three squads of sternguard with no prerequisites, and you have the extremely powerful ability to take 10-man squads in drop pods and split them on arrival against two different targets.

Peregrine, what are your thoughts on weapon load out? I'm assuming combi is the way to go with them?

Do you take the heavy flamer that's available to them, or is it too expensive?

I've yet to start building mine and I've never really fielded them.

Im ill informed, disregard.

Command squads can take special weapons per the new SM FAQ.

 beigeknight wrote:
Command squads can take special weapons per the new SM FAQ.

Ah then I apologize, I hadn't rechecked the FAQ... Either way I'd rather take 2 normal biker squads, they can be scoring and split your firepower with more bodies.

I still love my Sternies.

I think everyone likes them as a combi-weapon delivery system, but personally I don't really care for them in that role much. If you're taking them in 5 man squads for the sole purpose of using combi-weapons, then sure, they get outpaced, but if you're using them as mop up crews, they shine.

They do need to be delivered to their shooting place, usually in a drop pod, and ideally not on the first turn, so things will have been can opened, but once they're there they do very well. Hellfire rounds will put serious hurt on anything with an armor save; hordes die nice and fast, while you can usually put several wounds on an MC by forcing a ton of saves.

The way I like them best is with Pedro as HQ, with a Dev squad or two on the back line, usually with lascannons or missiles, and a couple squads of sternguards in pods (with tactical squads taking pods but staying on the back line with one lascannon and dropping them empty so I can bring in Sternguard later). Devastators open up any transports or buildings around the map (tank hunters and +1 against buildings makes them amazing for that), and by the time the Sternguard are hitting the table, they've got a few juicy enemy units sitting there.

In addition, they're scoring, so if my opponent has a unit holding onto an objective, I can usually blow a large chunk of them off it, then get on there the next turn.

I don't even need to run away from MCs really, I just have to make sure my Devastators fire at them too. Sure, even with Hellfire rounds they probably won't chew off more than two wounds off a Riptide, but what if I add another 7 or so lascannon shots from devastators? Or a Wraithblade? I can chew off 3-4 wounds with hellfire rounds, and then finish it off with enough lascannons.

The issue with Sternguard is that while they're still incredibly versatile, they aren't as cost effective. They need to be used a little differently in 6th, but that's fine, they still do plenty of things plenty well.

So long as you take 3 combi-bolters per 5 Sternguard or less, the cost remains the same or lower, which is reasonable, given that 50 points for 10 combis is ridiculous and the fact that naked Sternguard squads were viable in 5th and are viable now. Or as "viable" as they will be given the current state of the game.

Their ammo is still pretty nasty, and it is now available on the cheap.

I dunno, I think the usage of Sternguard depends on the rest of the list.

Command Squads have a HQ tax if you plan on taking more than one. Some lists just don't want more than one HQ.

Lists that use Pedro Kantor make Sternguard scoring while Command Squads remain...non-scoring.

Sternguard with combi-meltas are expensive, no argument, but if you are running Salamanders you are likely running Vulkan and are also likely to be running drop pods. If you are, then the Combi-Meltas (all of them) become master-crafted. You get to reroll your missed to-hit rolls on the turn you drop in, then on the following turns you get to be more accurate with your special ammo (including potentially rescuing models from gets hot! rolls).

The bike command squad was mentioned, and I agree it's incredible...but it also doesn't really fit for a drop pod list

TL;DR: I'd use them over Command Squads with Vulkan or Pedro. Both can buff them, and both are more likely to be drop pod lists which the bike command squad wouldn't be as compatible with.

Depends what you want out of them.

If you are already taking a non-Chapter Master/Master of the Forge, then, a suicide Command Squad with 5 Meltas/Plasmas/Flamers is fine. That is, if all you want is a suicide squad. (then it's cheaper than a Sternguard Squad, if you go the melta route)

However, if you are making a drop heavy list, then 30 Sternguard coming out of pods is still a very scary thing to deal with. 10 Flamers/Meltas/Plasmas being shot into you point blank is scary. (assuming you take 10 of each, rather than just straight 30 plasmas or 20 Plasmas and 10 Meltas)

5man sternguard squad. 2 heavy weapons ( I use plasma cannons). rhino. =mini tank.

leaves heavy support slots open.

 Peregrine wrote:
You're assuming that you're taking sufficient HQ choices to unlock all of the command squads you want, and never taking more than 5-man squads. You can take three squads of sternguard with no prerequisites, and you have the extremely powerful ability to take 10-man squads in drop pods and split them on arrival against two different targets.

I forgot to point out you can also take a bike squad with 2x Grav Gun and combi Grav for essentially equal firepower (9 shots one turn, 6 after) and if you don't want to flood FA you can take them as troops with a Cap/Master on bike. They also cost quite a lot less.

I think Sternguard are still just as useful as they were before when building a list around them.

They are a unit that can effectively handle just about any situation outside of CC. Hellfire rounds decimate high toughness targets, they can ignore cover, and they also bring AP3 firepower when needed.

Now, compared to a Command Squad with Grav-Weapons, it's going to be dependent on the rest of your list. Specifically, what HQ you bring. Sternguard with Heavy Flamers and Combi-Meltas in a Drop Pod with Vulkan are going to be better than a Command Squad with Grav-Guns on bikes.

However, from a vanilla Standpoint with a Captain as an HQ, I do have to agree for the most part. Those bikes are going to be fast, tough, and killy. But, when the Codex dropped, we could see that bikes became one of the more competitive units now.

All in all, Sternguard are essentially the same as before -- good when taken in a list built to utilize them in the best possible manner. Bikes (in general, doesn't even have to be a Command Squad) don't really need that kind of support.

I thought you had to declare combat squads before rolling for warlord traits which means you can't deliver a ten man squad in a drop pod and then split them?

kevhplus9 wrote:
I thought you had to declare combat squads before rolling for warlord traits which means you can't deliver a ten man squad in a drop pod and then split them?

You are correct. But, you can still place all 10 models in the transport as 2 combat squadded units -- just have to declare it before Warlord trait is rolled for (which at that point, I would have likely already decided if I wanted to combat squad anyway.)

As a strike squad Ultramarines Sternguard utilising the tactical doctrine can be potent gaining re-rolls on the combi-weapon shot or hitting harder with special ammunition if that is what is required. They certainly fit the "suicide squad" archetype well in my mind and I suspect a lot of these will still show up especially given the character support and UM traits offering lots to the rest of your army.

As a holding force CF Sternguard can be very potent. With Pedro they are now scoring and can even be within his attack bubble. This can make them a very flexible force. Especially if kitted out correctly with the right combi-weapons. Afterall 4 Attacks on the charge will enable them to sweep clear the last vistages of an enemy stronghold they have shot up. Particularly with Combi-flamers/Meltas due to assault status. Throw in a HF and these guys can sit on the objective/in cover and proceed to kick out some very good firepower with specialist ammunition ALL the while any enemy wishing to charge will have to weather a storm of specialist ammunition/HF wall of death and then potentially 30 attacks coming towards them. I'd probably still pod CF sterngaurd using them as the assault element of my army after Devastators and Tacticals had opened up the enemy transports etc, however I'd be considering 20-30 of them.

Salamanders Sternguard are also superb. Combi-Meltas on these bad boys make them insanely flexible if Vulkan is included. With the master-crafted trait they are hitting slightly more accurately with the melta shot AND the specialist ammunition (I believe that is correct?). Need to deal with units in cover... check. Need to bring down High T creature... check. Need to open a tank.... check. Need to shoot up some MEQ without worrying so much about gets hot... check. Need to engage in mid-range firefight with Tau... check. Add in 2 HF's and suddenly they have an assault deterrent and potent flaming capability. Salamanders Sternguard in a Rhino are looking powerful. For giggles throw them in a Redeemer and watch your opponent squirm as you have a MBL unit that can engage anything he throws at them with reasonable success.

Coming out of the far left hand side of the field we have White Scars Sternguard. All the versatility of normal Sternguard however very capable in the close range firefight. Able to hold better in assault due to that +1 A and +1 Ld they can comfortably operate in the 12" zone knowing that a fall back from combat is possible at the end of your opponents turn. Allowing them to further harass and shoot him. Given a Rhino/Razorback and they can form hard hitting outflanking squads able to open up holes in the enemy battle line and/or remove backfield fire support elements.


Personally I'm not a major fan of UM Sterngaurd however CF, Salamanders and WS Sternguard can all be very potent either as a support element or the corner stone of your list. I'm currently really in a bind with regards what chapter to go for. I know I want these battle brothers in my army as I love tactical and strategic flexibility and they, very rarely I might add, bring both to your list. However I can't decide how I want that list to look out of these 3 chapters.

Combat Squads were changed slightly. The two squads are split earlier and are pretty much two separate units for all purposes, except one: two halves of one squad may embark on the same transport. Thus you can put both of them in a drop pod, land raider, rhino or whatever.

I have had ten man squads och sternies mop the floor with Plague Marines by forcing them to do far too many armour and feel no pain rolls, and that was when you got FNP on a 4+.

How about adding Legion of the Damned to the list of Sternie alternatives?

5 LOTD, Combi Melta, Melta and Multi Melta, 155 points, or combi plasma, gun and cannon for 165.

Drop pods have the added bonus of, you don't have to decide combat squads until the unit arrives from reserves.

 Goat wrote:
Drop pods have the added bonus of, you don't have to decide combat squads until the unit arrives from reserves.

Not any more, combat squading must now be done before rolling for Warlord Traits.

Crazyterran wrote:
However, if you are making a drop heavy list, then 30 Sternguard coming out of pods is still a very scary thing to deal with.

But less scary than 30 Wolf Guard coming out of pods. They're only 23 points each with a combi-weapon.

Super Newb wrote:

Crazyterran wrote:
However, if you are making a drop heavy list, then 30 Sternguard coming out of pods is still a very scary thing to deal with.

But less scary than 30 Wolf Guard coming out of pods. They're only 23 points each with a combi-weapon.

And an entirely different codex

OP i agree. another thing you cound consider is the LOTD deepstiking with melta, Multi melta, and combi melta. (at least for anti tank) 155 points, and they ignore cover, but with there meltas. and if they survive (they have a 3++) then they can still shoot there meltas


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wich i just noticed dundas psted

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Goat wrote:
Drop pods have the added bonus of, you don't have to decide combat squads until the unit arrives from reserves.

Not any more, combat squading must now be done before rolling for Warlord Traits.

Looking at the BA codex FAQ is says Combat Squad immediatly before deployment. Is it different in the new SM codex? It's a shame that they removed the combat squad on arrival. I have to reread drop pod and combat squad entries in the book.

 Goat wrote:

 Voodoo_Chile wrote:

 Goat wrote:
Drop pods have the added bonus of, you don't have to decide combat squads until the unit arrives from reserves.

Not any more, combat squading must now be done before rolling for Warlord Traits.

Looking at the BA codex FAQ is says Combat Squad immediatly before deployment. Is it different in the new SM codex? It's a shame that they removed the combat squad on arrival. I have to reread drop pod and combat squad entries in the book.

Yeah, new dex explicitly says before determining your warlord traits.

 ninjafiredragon wrote:
OP i agree. another thing you cound consider is the LOTD deepstiking with melta, Multi melta, and combi melta. (at least for anti tank) 155 points, and they ignore cover, but with there meltas. and if they survive (they have a 3++) then they can still shoot there meltas


Automatically Appended Next Post:
wich i just noticed dundas psted

My thoughts exactly, though I personally would rather kit them out with a plasma gun, combi-grav and or multi-melta/plasma cannon for MEQ/TEQ/MC killing, “good bye crises suites and Riptides, I’ll see you all in hell.”

I actually like the new LotD, and I think that anybody running a drop pod list is going to want to consider what kind of mix they want between them, Sterns, and Ironclads.

Vulkan can buff them too (the Mastercrafted Meltas) which makes the decision a bit more difficult.