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OK these are really really rough. This is meant to be the titan for the Necrons and is done from the perspective that the pathetic forgeworld tomb stalker and the one that walked all over chaos titan legions and forces at Medusa V. The model being used is the is the Actionclix Halo Scarab painted black, green, and silver with some modification. This is going to be a gargantuan creature because all of the other Necron machine beasties are all creatures for some reason. Made to basically be a titan with void shields and HP converted to wounds.
Medusa V Tomb Stalker
[WS][BS.][S][T.][W.][.I][.A.][LD][SV] 3850 points
[..8..][.6..][10][10][35][6][10][10.][.2+]
Army:Necrons
Unit Type: Gargantuan Creature
Unit composition: 1 Medusa V Tomb Stalker
Special Rules: Fearless, Terror, IWND (5+), Rending, Sh*t that thing can move!!!l, Terrifying Power, Metal Flesh
Wargear: 3 Gauss Flux Arcs, 3 Heavy Gauss Cannons, Phase Shifter Array (4+ invul), Eternity Gate, 5 Scarab Hives
-Sh*t that thing can move!!!: When making a charge roll 6D6 instead of the normal 2D6. If Models more than or 9" tall comes in contact with the stalker during the charge, then the charge is stopped and that model is hit with D4 S: D attacks and the Tomb Stalker enters combat with the model as if it had charged normally. Models in BTB with the enemy titan or huge model take the S: D hits and are not moved. The enemy titan is automatically stunned or shaken unless it is immune. If nothing is hit (9' or taller model) then if models are below the Tomb Stalker, or in BTB with it they enter combat together as per usual.
-Terrifying Power: The sheer power reserves of the Tomb Stalker means that Necron units can draw from it to revive. Necron warriors, immortals, lords, overlords (stuff with normal reanimation) reroll 1's for their reanimation protocol.
-Metal Flesh: The Tomb Stalker is affected by melta in that successful melta hits wound and act like they are S: D.
Comments and Criticism
Edit: lowered to S: 10. Removed living metal and Deathray. Lowered attacks to 10. People 4 lucky S: D shots will kill this.
Edit: lowered wounds to 35, added metal flesh, lowered invul to 4+.

Wounds... 40? 2+ save? Toughness 10?

I can't call it broken until you attach a point value, but this needs to be more than 5 digits in points. And what's the range on "Terrifying Power"?

So, give this thing a HEFTY points cost. This thing is better than an Imperator titan, so it had better be damn expensive. Seems like more "I want it to be awesome!" than actually thought out.

LOL wow that thing would eat an entire HIve Swarm for breakfast and pick its teeth with an attempted Exterminatus.

One major sticking point with this that you had with your Magnus in terms of game mechanics is the intent to use dice which aren't used in modern 40K. Yes, D4s exist. But they haven't been used in at least the last 4 editions of the game (I never played Rogue Trader or 2nd ed, so I can't say if it was used back then or not), so you should steer clear of needing specialist dice which are just used for your proposed creation. For ease of use really, why not just make it D3 and more in line with how the game has been played in recent editions?

 jifel wrote:
Wounds... 40? 2+ save? Toughness 10?

I can't call it broken until you attach a point value, but this needs to be more than 5 digits in points. And what's the range on "Terrifying Power"?

So, give this thing a HEFTY points cost. This thing is better than an Imperator titan, so it had better be damn expensive. Seems like more "I want it to be awesome!" than actually thought out.

How is it better? The imperator has 6 volcano cannons & 2 Plasma annihilators and is silly more durable. That's 6 S: D AP:1 10" blasts, and 8 S:10 AP:2 10" blasts per turn!!!! It will beat this things brains in.
5 digits? You realize this is apoc only and 2 warlords would already laugh at this at a distance let alone what an imperator would do to this poor metal bug's anus. In general you don't seem to understand what D weapons do. 1 AP:2 S: D strike will take away 8 wounds on a 6 to wound.
I'm happy to nerf it but don't use blatantly wrong things in your arguments.
I forgot to put in the distance on the terrifying power. Thank you for reminding me. I want it to be whatever is directly under or touching this thing because its already so massive.
I was thinking around 3850 points and wanted some more feedback and points suggestion.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rumbleguts wrote:
LOL wow that thing would eat an entire HIve Swarm for breakfast and pick its teeth with an attempted Exterminatus.

Most titans do.

Well, I haven't seen any rules on Titans large then the Warlord(?), the one the next size up from a Warhound. I can only compare it to Heirophant Bio Titan, largest thing tyranids have, and your beastie is so far beyond it its like comparing tyranid warriors to heirodules.

But that charge attack? Anything the size of an actual Imperator Titan that does that move could wipe out a large part of an opponent's army considering how dense models tend to be packed, especially if it came in from reserves on a neutral table edge.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_4nzgPbHlNo4/S2eqPZ6j5vI/AAAAAAAAHDQ/QjKVK8NZr8E/s320/emp-titan-02.jpg

Imagine the footprint of that moving across a table. Especially if it ends up charging 20+ inches. It sounds like you intend for it to come to a stop if it charges into a superheavy/titan/gargantuan creature/fortifcation.

Really? 40 Wounds? Initiative 6? WS8? Best to read up on the stats of other similar beasts before you make your own, this just reeks of a "special snowflake" character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Wounds... 40? 2+ save? Toughness 10?

I can't call it broken until you attach a point value, but this needs to be more than 5 digits in points. And what's the range on "Terrifying Power"?

So, give this thing a HEFTY points cost. This thing is better than an Imperator titan, so it had better be damn expensive. Seems like more "I want it to be awesome!" than actually thought out.

How is it better? The imperator has 6 volcano cannons & 2 Plasma annihilators and is silly more durable. That's 6 S: D AP:1 10" blasts, and 8 S:10 AP:2 10" blasts per turn!!!! It will beat this things brains in.
5 digits? You realize this is apoc only and 2 warlords would already laugh at this at a distance let alone what an imperator would do to this poor metal bug's anus. In general you don't seem to understand what D weapons do. 1 AP:2 S: D strike will take away 8 wounds on a 6 to wound.

That's if you roll 6 on the Destroyer table, and then another 6 on the number of SP taken away. 1/36 chance of that happening so it's a pretty poor argument that it justifies having 40 wounds.

I'm happy to nerf it but don't use blatantly wrong things in your arguments.
I forgot to put in the distance on the terrifying power. Thank you for reminding me. I want it to be whatever is directly under or touching this thing because its already so massive.
I was thinking around 3850 points and wanted some more feedback and points suggestion.

Oh god no, 3850 points is far too few.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rumbleguts wrote:
LOL wow that thing would eat an entire HIve Swarm for breakfast and pick its teeth with an attempted Exterminatus.

Most titans do.

No, they really don't. Read up on the fluff and you'll realise that Titans have many, many weaknesses.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Really? 40 Wounds? Initiative 6? WS8? Best to read up on the stats of other similar beasts before you make your own, this just reeks of a "special snowflake" character.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 jifel wrote:
Wounds... 40? 2+ save? Toughness 10?

I can't call it broken until you attach a point value, but this needs to be more than 5 digits in points. And what's the range on "Terrifying Power"?

So, give this thing a HEFTY points cost. This thing is better than an Imperator titan, so it had better be damn expensive. Seems like more "I want it to be awesome!" than actually thought out.

How is it better? The imperator has 6 volcano cannons & 2 Plasma annihilators and is silly more durable. That's 6 S: D AP:1 10" blasts, and 8 S:10 AP:2 10" blasts per turn!!!! It will beat this things brains in.
5 digits? You realize this is apoc only and 2 warlords would already laugh at this at a distance let alone what an imperator would do to this poor metal bug's anus. In general you don't seem to understand what D weapons do. 1 AP:2 S: D strike will take away 8 wounds on a 6 to wound.

That's if you roll 6 on the Destroyer table, and then another 6 on the number of SP taken away. 1/36 chance of that happening so it's a pretty poor argument that it justifies having 40 wounds.

I'm happy to nerf it but don't use blatantly wrong things in your arguments.
I forgot to put in the distance on the terrifying power. Thank you for reminding me. I want it to be whatever is directly under or touching this thing because its already so massive.
I was thinking around 3850 points and wanted some more feedback and points suggestion.

Oh god no, 3850 points is far too few.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rumbleguts wrote:
LOL wow that thing would eat an entire HIve Swarm for breakfast and pick its teeth with an attempted Exterminatus.

Most titans do.

No, they really don't. Read up on the fluff and you'll realise that Titans have many, many weaknesses.

8 is the average number of wounds taken away by a 6 on the S: D table. The max is 12.
It's actually less durable than a warlord due to not having regenerating void shields.
What will a warlord do to a 2500 point tyranid army? It wont be there after turn 2 and the warlord won't be scratched.

I'm not that familiar with what the weaponry is, but I didn't even notice it had long range weapons when I first read through it and thought it was over the top.
So it's pretty much immune to everything except S: D weaponry and gets to hit things it charges through with a S: D hit. When it gets into combat it deals another 1-4 S: D hits, then attacks with 16 S: D hits at I6.
At what point did you think that was a good idea? I know fluff says one thing, but that's a terrible perspective. Fluff has Tigersharks one-shot killing titans, but in the table top it's actually much less likely than they make it out to be.

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm not that familiar with what the weaponry is, but I didn't even notice it had long range weapons when I first read through it and thought it was over the top.
So it's pretty much immune to everything except S: D weaponry and gets to hit things it charges through with a S: D hit. When it gets into combat it deals another 1-4 S: D hits, then attacks with 16 S: D hits at I6.
At what point did you think that was a good idea? I know fluff says one thing, but that's a terrible perspective. Fluff has Tigersharks one-shot killing titans, but in the table top it's actually much less likely than they make it out to be.

Titans being immune to pretty much everything but S: D is common practice. This thing can get hurt from any Apoc anti tank weapon. But I'll lower the S to 10.

 TheSaintofKilllers wrote:

 Savageconvoy wrote:
I'm not that familiar with what the weaponry is, but I didn't even notice it had long range weapons when I first read through it and thought it was over the top.
So it's pretty much immune to everything except S: D weaponry and gets to hit things it charges through with a S: D hit. When it gets into combat it deals another 1-4 S: D hits, then attacks with 16 S: D hits at I6.
At what point did you think that was a good idea? I know fluff says one thing, but that's a terrible perspective. Fluff has Tigersharks one-shot killing titans, but in the table top it's actually much less likely than they make it out to be.

Titans being immune to pretty much everything but S: D is common practice. This thing can get hurt from any Apoc anti tank weapon. But I'll lower the S to 10.

Titans don't have a 3+ Invulnerable save. Titans don't get to downgrade/ignore hits (Living Metal). Titans can't take 39 critical hits and still go on strong.

Edit: Actually, looking at the rules, they're a real mess. How would Living Metal work on a model with no armour values for example?

You're really better off making this thing a vehicle. For one thing you wouldn't have to use nonstandard stats (10 being the maximum for anything)
Here are the GW rules for the Emperor Titan, widely considered massively undercosted. And still not as "good" as your rules.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440056_Imperial_Datasheet_-_Emperor_Battle_Titan.pdf

Other points:
Work on clarifying your rules. They seem both overcomplicated and incomplete. This in particular struck me:

If something is hit (titans, wraithknight) then the charge is stopped

It shouldn't be that fast. It isn't a rapid response unit and doesn't fit the style of large necron things.
Look at other necron superheavies and units that are generally similar for inspiration.

The entire thing screams excessive.
It could be toned down to be playable though but it would take a lot of work.

Drop stats back down to earth.

ws 4 bs 4 sD t8-9 w8 i4 a6 ld10 armor 3+
Special Rules: Fearless, Terror, IWND (5+) Sense cluster(night vision), devastating assault (d3 or 6 assault for the charge), war construct (anti sniper), phase tunneling same as stalker)
-Sh*t that thing can move!!! should be something like 3d6 on the charge, and models in the way must take initiative check to get out of the way. otherwise takes a bunch of hits and gets locked into combat if it survives.

Edit: actually something funny i always wanted to see is a stalker built on separate bases and attached together with magnets. each section can move so long as its in base contact. each section can be targeted and each section can be blown off piece by piece. basically a giant game of centipede

 Desubot wrote:
The entire thing screams excessive.
It could be toned down to be playable though but it would take a lot of work.

Drop stats back down to earth.

ws 4 bs 4 sD t8-9 w8 i4 a6 ld10 armor 3+
Special Rules: Fearless, Terror, IWND (5+) Sense cluster(night vision), devastating assault (d3 or 6 assault for the charge), war construct (anti sniper), phase tunneling same as stalker)
-Sh*t that thing can move!!! should be something like 3d6 on the charge, and models in the way must take initiative check to get out of the way. otherwise takes a bunch of hits and gets locked into combat if it survives.

Edit: actually something funny i always wanted to see is a stalker built on separate bases and attached together with magnets. each section can move so long as its in base contact. each section can be targeted and each section can be blown off piece by piece. basically a giant game of centipede

So wait the thing that fethed up an entire Titan legion is worse than a hierophant? That's worse than mine!!!!

If your trying to go by fluff then god help you to find anyone to play with.

If your trying to make a balanced something for an apoc game then you need to tone everything down.

Unless you make it 10k points at even that is low i feel.

Sgt Rock is gonna kill me wrote:
You're really better off making this thing a vehicle. For one thing you wouldn't have to use nonstandard stats (10 being the maximum for anything)
Here are the GW rules for the Emperor Titan, widely considered massively undercosted. And still not as "good" as your rules.
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2440056_Imperial_Datasheet_-_Emperor_Battle_Titan.pdf

Other points:
Work on clarifying your rules. They seem both overcomplicated and incomplete. This in particular struck me:

If something is hit (titans, wraithknight) then the charge is stopped

It shouldn't be that fast. It isn't a rapid response unit and doesn't fit the style of large necron things.
Look at other necron superheavies and units that are generally similar for inspiration.

The Emperor is multiple times more durable due to having mass void shields and more HP. It explodes with a massive 6D6 S: D blast when it keels over. It can be easily repaired due to being a vehicle. With mass tech priests it has Wolverine like regen. It puts out 6 S: D AP:2 10inch blasts and 4 S:10 AP: 2 10inch blasts per turn. To say that the imperator Is better is a severe understatement.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Desubot wrote:
If your trying to go by fluff then god help you to find anyone to play with.

If your trying to make a balanced something for an apoc game then you need to tone everything down.

Unless you make it 10k points at even that is low i feel.

2 warlords would already feth it's gak up hard at a distance. Yours isn't even a titan just a hierodule with S: D.
I've lowered destructive capability pretty heavily now regardless.

It'll still be unplayable until you get rid of the 40 wounds.

 Valkyrie wrote:
It'll still be unplayable until you get rid of the 40 wounds.

At 3850 points? Naw not really. Apoc isn't really about balance in the first place. It's about opening up a few cold ones and watching sh*t hit the fan as the person with the best everything wins hilariously.
Even then, you're supposed to only throw S: D at titans because that's its primary purpose: Anti Titan and Gargantuan Creature. Plus this is far less durable than even the warlord which has void shields, and a similar number of wounds (if HP=wounds, and if wounds are better, think how many HP that warlord is healing per turn with all those tech priests, like 8-12 a turn...gak)

TO be honest, 40 wounds at T9 wouldn't be that bad, as long as he dropped the Inv completely and made the IWND able to regenerate D3 wounds a turn an a 4+.

That way it is conceivable to kill in it one turn

 IHateNids wrote:
TO be honest, 40 wounds at T9 wouldn't be that bad, as long as he dropped the Inv completely and made the IWND able to regenerate D3 wounds a turn an a 4+.

That way it is conceivable to kill in it one turn

It already is. It doesn't have the repair capabilities that titans have with tech priest seeming free. That makes this guy far less durable than even a warlord.
That's a general rule with a well supported titan: If I ignore it for one turn it's gonna grow back both it's arms, regain 10 HP, and start shooting good as new. GC's? They don't have that sheer capability.
S: D ignores invuls. That's why you throw it at gargantuan creautres. And every army but dark elder can take S: D in mammoth amounts.
You're asking me to make it hilariously fragile for it's mammoth points cost.

However, if you shoot any S weapon at a Titan with priest support, the priest support dies, and the Titan now has no support, unless the opponent has bought waves upon waves of priests. Since you can place a template anywhere as long as the hole is over the target in 40k. So it isn't like the priests are always there, as soon as they move in to repair it, they get 1 turn to try and repair it before they are dead.

 motyak wrote:
However, if you shoot any S weapon at a Titan with priest support, the priest support dies, and the Titan now has no support, unless the opponent has bought waves upon waves of priests. Since you can place a template anywhere as long as the hole is over the target in 40k. So it isn't like the priests are always there, as soon as they move in to repair it, they get 1 turn to try and repair it before they are dead.

Umm....whenever I roll out my Warlord 1/3 of the rest of my points are tech priests and all my buds do the same. So people do bring loads of tech priests in my meta at least. I don't know about other metas though.
It's still hilariously less durable than a warlord If I take away any factor to the durability currently in place. As it stands with a warlord that's unsupported and this thing they're even durability wise. The Titan has free regenerating extra HP through the void shields.

What do you regenerate a void shield on?

 motyak wrote:
What do you regenerate a void shield on?

Either a 2+ or a 3+. I'm leaning to the 2+ but don't quote me.
Now this thing has no long range weaponry (The gauss stuff has a 24" range) and only has warlord durability, and is still bound to have only 10 attacks That means it's pretty darn underpowered.
Edit: You get a 5+ for every SP remaining....and they don't act as hull points but additional AV 13 SP. That means the warlord is actually still more durable.

So yours has a slightly worse regeneration than the warlord titan if that's the case. And I thought you said you used Warlords?

And you have a range 6D6 Strength 10 Assault 10(+1D4 S: D) ranged weapon which can only have LOS blocked by gargantuans/superheavies/fortifications/random other units/you should probably define just what does stop it.

Ok, 40 wounds, 3++ means 120 wounds to kill the damn thing. Thats a crap ton, given the toughness NINE it has. D weapons won't do THAT much to it, because this thing with a 6d6 charge will get the charge first turn, and then with 15 Strength D attacks, will beat the hell out of whatever it hits. It's tough enough to survive any wound of shooting, and will then eat anythings lunch turn one... no way this is less than 10,000 points without major changes.

 jifel wrote:
Ok, 40 wounds, 3++ means 120 wounds to kill the damn thing. Thats a crap ton, given the toughness NINE it has. D weapons won't do THAT much to it, because this thing with a 6d6 charge will get the charge first turn, and then with 15 Strength D attacks, will beat the hell out of whatever it hits. It's tough enough to survive any wound of shooting, and will then eat anythings lunch turn one... no way this is less than 10,000 points without major changes.

Why are you even throwing non S: D at titans? You know you're not supposed to do that? That's a pretty damn good question. You're being a bad tactician. That's like firing lasguns at a Trygon. You're clearly don't know much about Apoc otherwise you'd understand that S: D being included in Apoc specifically to counter gargantuan gak changes the game quite a bit. It means that if I throw this out in normal 40k and it'd be unstoppable.
I edited this stuff you go on about out. You just look stupid now.

Your super charge rule still doesn't really work, because we don't know what it is stopped by. Superheavies/gargantuans/fortifications only? MC's as well? Regular vehicles as well? Infanty?

And it isn't that much more durable, you both regenerate on a 5+ now.

 motyak wrote:
So yours has a slightly worse regeneration than the warlord titan if that's the case. And I thought you said you used Warlords?

And you have a range 6D6 Strength 10 Assault 10(+1D4 S: D) ranged weapon which can only have LOS blocked by gargantuans/superheavies/fortifications/random other units/you should probably define just what does stop it.

I do. Haven't done so with the new apoc rules though.
I actually forgot about that ranged attack. It's really good for anti titan, because with any sensible home rules, that will knock the gak out any titan and shock and stun them. That makes up for the lack of long range at least.

And don't forget that the ranged attack there stops the titan shooting back at you (unless the can shoot into a combat that they are involved in?). And it also stops other models shooting at your tomb stalker as well. And if all it'd do is really beat up the titan, then you'll kill it in your opponents turn, rinse and repeat.