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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/08 23:49:19
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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It is a good thing that FNP tells us to treat the wound as saved.
Why are you subtracting wounds from models on a saved wound?
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 00:22:13
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Copper - how are you regaining the warp charge? The test was still taken, so the charge was spent
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 01:32:10
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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DeathReaper wrote: Abandon wrote: DeathReaper wrote: Abandon wrote:And when do you start treating the wound as if it had been saved?
Basically if FNP is successful, you have to treat the wound as if the armor save was successful. That is what 'Treat it as having been saved' means...
What was the state of the wound before then?
Irrelavent, we are treating it as if the save was successful, so it was a hit, a wound and a saved wound as per the FNP rules.
Does treating the wound differently somehow effect ES after it has been activated?
You can not even activate ES on a saved wound so why are you activating ES on a wound you are treating as saved?
Retrospectively treating the wound(now) as having been saved(then) is not stated to deactivate ES and as ES already has been activated it is permitted to do its thing.
Except FNP says to "treat it [the unsaved Wound] as having been saved" (35)
Therefore there was no Unsaved wound in the first place, because we are treating it as if we made our armor/cover/invuln save...
If it said treat the wound as saved, you might have a case, but FNP retroactively goes back to the take armor save step and pretends we passed that save, therefore there is no unsaved Wound.
The first line of your post does not equal the second. It says to:
treat(present action) it(the unsaved wound) as having been saved(set state to 'was saved')
It tells you to take action in the present on a specific thing which is to set it to a particular state. That is not going back and changing how events unfolded nor pretending everything was different. That is just setting the state of the wound currently to what it would have been if it had been saved.
You are somehow trying to use this as an excuse to 'treat everything as if it had been saved' which is not what you are told to do. The only present effect the line has is to change how you treat the wound itself. Nothing else is changed by this.
nosferatu1001 wrote:Copper - how are you regaining the warp charge? The test was still taken, so the charge was spent
according to you there never was an unsaved wound so there would be no test.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/09 01:32:52
-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 01:35:47
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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@DeathReaper the faq says that force weapons resolve before FNP. So by the time FNP activates the librarian will have lost its final wound and become a casualty. FNP then does what? Resurrect the librarian and give him back his warp charge? since all returning to play rules use a counter, shouldn't the force weapon rule provide a counter in case the model does return to play? If he had caused more than 1 wounds, could he still be part of the CC and repeat the same process again and again? Becoming a casualty shouldn't stop him being part of the CC (and maybe placed within 3" to the counter that force should have provided) and then become an unengaged model free to move/shoot/run in the next round?
Don't you get how crazy is this situation you are proposing?
FNP applies after it activates worst case scenario a model ends up unharmed but without a save.
FNP goes back in time to make the wound saved ridiculousness level > 9000
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 02:52:11
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Angry Blood Angel Assault marine
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copper.talos wrote:@DeathReaper the faq says that force weapons resolve before FNP. So by the time FNP activates the librarian will have lost its final wound and become a casualty. FNP then does what? Resurrect the librarian and give him back his warp charge? since all returning to play rules use a counter, shouldn't the force weapon rule provide a counter in case the model does return to play? If he had caused more than 1 wounds, could he still be part of the CC and repeat the same process again and again? Becoming a casualty shouldn't stop him being part of the CC (and maybe placed within 3" to the counter that force should have provided) and then become an unengaged model free to move/shoot/run in the next round?
Don't you get how crazy is this situation you are proposing?
FNP applies after it activates worst case scenario a model ends up unharmed but without a save.
FNP goes back in time to make the wound saved ridiculousness level > 9000
First the thing wrong with this situation you are proposing is that FNP is on an enemy model. Force weapons have the chance of making the wounds caused by them instant death, thus the reason there is an FAQ for Force weapons and FNP. If the librian does attempt to make the wound/s he caused ID, that has no bearing on the fact that he could die from perils while still causing wounds to the orks. At the point the perils happens, a wound is allocated to the librian. Thus causing the librians owner/player to take any saves possible. If failed the librian is removed as a casualty. At this point if the ork player passes a FNP, it does not effect the result of the librian taking a wound. The Force USR and Force weapons create a situation where wounds caused by a model with these rules/wargear are be able to cause ID.
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8000+points of |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 03:05:29
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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We all agree it is completely ridiculous, which is why it is being used as an argument against magical time travelling Feel No Pain.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/09 03:05:43
Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 03:24:49
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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The Hive Mind
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PrinceRaven wrote:We all agree it is completely ridiculous, which is why it is being used as an argument against magical time travelling Feel No Pain.
It's not any more ridiculous than magical wound gaining Doom or ES applying to a model that has not suffered an unsaved wound.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 03:53:34
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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rigeld2 wrote: PrinceRaven wrote:We all agree it is completely ridiculous, which is why it is being used as an argument against magical time travelling Feel No Pain.
It's not any more ridiculous than magical wound gaining Doom or ES applying to a model that has not suffered an unsaved wound.
Magical resurrection isn't any more ridiculous than entropic strike cutting through someone's armour?
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 04:00:19
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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The Hive Mind
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PrinceRaven wrote:rigeld2 wrote: PrinceRaven wrote:We all agree it is completely ridiculous, which is why it is being used as an argument against magical time travelling Feel No Pain.
It's not any more ridiculous than magical wound gaining Doom or ES applying to a model that has not suffered an unsaved wound.
Magical resurrection isn't any more ridiculous than entropic strike cutting through someone's armour?
In a universe people by denizens of the Warp, people being lost in the warp for millennia...
And it's cute how you jumped on one of the two abilities I mentioned, ignoring the rest of them.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 04:34:55
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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rigeld2 wrote: PrinceRaven wrote:rigeld2 wrote: PrinceRaven wrote:We all agree it is completely ridiculous, which is why it is being used as an argument against magical time travelling Feel No Pain.
It's not any more ridiculous than magical wound gaining Doom or ES applying to a model that has not suffered an unsaved wound.
Magical resurrection isn't any more ridiculous than entropic strike cutting through someone's armour?
In a universe people by denizens of the Warp, people being lost in the warp for millennia...
And it's cute how you jumped on one of the two abilities I mentioned, ignoring the rest of them.
Since we are on fluff.
So the DoM sucks most of the life force out of FNP dude and adds it to his own gaining a wound. Where most would be unable to continue Mr. FNP cowboys up and keeps on truckin. I really don't see a problem with that.
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-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 05:27:08
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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rigeld2 wrote: PrinceRaven wrote:rigeld2 wrote: PrinceRaven wrote:We all agree it is completely ridiculous, which is why it is being used as an argument against magical time travelling Feel No Pain.
It's not any more ridiculous than magical wound gaining Doom or ES applying to a model that has not suffered an unsaved wound.
Magical resurrection isn't any more ridiculous than entropic strike cutting through someone's armour?
In a universe people by denizens of the Warp, people being lost in the warp for millennia...
And it's cute how you jumped on one of the two abilities I mentioned, ignoring the rest of them.
I've already stated that I don't play the Doom that way, despite the RAW, because it doesn't fit with the fluff and there are enough rules debates going on with the Doom as it is.
I still think some Librarian dying then coming back to life because someone else didn't die is more strange then a scarab wrecking someone's armour but not managing to hurt them, both from a fluff and rules perspective.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 05:30:37
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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The Hive Mind
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And I wouldn't play that the Libby comes back to life.
But that has as much to do with the price of tea in China as it does with what the rules say.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 06:39:28
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Infiltrating Broodlord
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"...-treat it as having been saved"
Summing up my conversation with some QnA:
Does this say to go back in time, change the wound to saved and update everything to the alternate timeline? No.
Does this say to go back in time at all? No.
Does this say it effects anything but the wound? No.
Does this say treat everything as if the wound had been saved? No.
What does this change? The wound.
Does it change anything else? No.
Is the change made in the past or the present? In the present as per it's wording.
Then why does it say 'having been saved'? Because you are supposed to treat the wound now as though it had been saved then.
But why are you activating ES on a saved wound? I'm not, I activated it on an unsaved wound that later became a 'had been saved' wound.
But it's been saved how can you activate ES? I just answered that.
But it's been saved!? And your point or questions is... what?
Don't you have to treat the wound as saved? (facepalm) Yes! but not until after ES activates!
But it was saved so it doesn't activate right? ... I'm going now. Good night.
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-It is not the strongest of the Tyranids that survive but the ones most adaptive to change. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 06:44:34
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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"...-treat it as having been saved"
When do you find out if it is saved or unsaved?
you have to treat it as if you made the armor save...
If the model no longer has an armor save, or if the doom gained a wound, you are not treating the wound as saved.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 07:14:25
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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DeathReaper wrote:"...-treat it as having been saved"
When do you find out if it is saved or unsaved?
you have to treat it as if you made the armor save...
If the model no longer has an armor save, or if the doom gained a wound, you are not treating the wound as saved.
No, we are. "Treating the wound as saved" does not involve deactivating or negating already activated wounds that do not require an unsaved wound past activation. Unless, of course, you can come up with a logical argument with relevant quotes of the rules saying that it does and then engage in an actual debate.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 08:53:25
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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And to think about you were the 1st to talk about double standards...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 09:28:59
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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PrinceRaven wrote: DeathReaper wrote:"...-treat it as having been saved"
When do you find out if it is saved or unsaved?
you have to treat it as if you made the armor save...
If the model no longer has an armor save, or if the doom gained a wound, you are not treating the wound as saved.
No, we are. "Treating the wound as saved" does not involve deactivating or negating already activated wounds that do not require an unsaved wound past activation. Unless, of course, you can come up with a logical argument with relevant quotes of the rules saying that it does and then engage in an actual debate.
"...-treat it as having been saved" says that you have to treat it as if you made your armor save...
That is what that means.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 10:07:44
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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DeathReaper wrote: PrinceRaven wrote: DeathReaper wrote:"...-treat it as having been saved"
When do you find out if it is saved or unsaved?
you have to treat it as if you made the armor save...
If the model no longer has an armor save, or if the doom gained a wound, you are not treating the wound as saved.
No, we are. "Treating the wound as saved" does not involve deactivating or negating already activated wounds that do not require an unsaved wound past activation. Unless, of course, you can come up with a logical argument with relevant quotes of the rules saying that it does and then engage in an actual debate.
"...-treat it as having been saved" says that you have to treat it as if you made your armor save...
That is what that means.
Exactly, it doesn't mean "treat all already activated special rules that are activated by the unsaved wound as if it were saved" nor does it mean "a replay occurs, go back in time and treat the wound as saved". All it means is that you saved the wound.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 10:10:56
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon
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And what is entropic strike requiring you to have?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/09 10:11:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 11:01:12
Subject: Re:FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Nothing, Entropic Strike has no maintenance requirements.
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Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 14:54:14
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Herpy derp moment there, does indeed say unsaved at that point, was miss remembering combined with a post I made earlier part about wounded. Unfortunate because it would have changed the point even if FNP time travels.
I think Abadon pretty much listed all possible questions with the appropriate answers from pro ES side. I would say it would be nice to get a faq either way, but with this issue having been open for 5 or so ish years, probably not.
FNP lacks the permission to change any other special rules. Being able to change the status of the wound is not permission to also effect everything that could have occurred from that unsaved wound. Changing the status of the wound does not halt or cancel out ES.
How are we treating the wound as saved if the armors gone? We work out permission based on events at the time.
But if ES continues we're breaking the rules of FNP. I must have missed the part FNP says treat it and all resulting actions from it as having been saved. - Which would have been pretty easy to just write instead of having us break some awful present past tense designers code, though maybe that is giving the writers too much credit.
If questions like this were so seriously considered in all rule debates we would be shooting at full BS with Heavy and Skyfire, as snap shooting is obviously breaking the rules of Skyfire. How can you snap shot when your told to fire at full BS? Because Skyfire gives you permission to fire a full BS, Not fire a full BS even if Heavy rule is in effect.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/11/09 15:23:41
It's my codex and I'll cry If I want to.
Tactical objectives are fantastic |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 15:28:14
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Angry Blood Angel Assault marine
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For all of you ES guys if they wanted it to work the way you are claiming the phrase would most likely said simplely "count it as saved"
Not "count it as having been saved."
Also, if we are really going to say that ES gets to go before FNP please give us a rule or quote that allows for that. Thus holding up your entire arguement. If you really believe that ES activates the second an armor save if failed provide rules support.
We can say that with FNP and Force weapon issue you should wait to see if ES gets to take the armor.
Reasoning for this is that Force could cancel FNP ability to activate, just like FNP can cancel requirement to activate ES.
If we are really gonna go as far as to create situations that are not feasable and then try to argue that since they are absurd and then use that as a guide for other instances you lose focus of the issues, especially if the example was flawed to begin with, as I pointed out very easily. That is no way to create an arguement.
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8000+points of |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 15:43:38
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Tea-Kettle of Blood
Adelaide, South Australia
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Kapitalist-Pig wrote:For all of you ES guys if they wanted it to work the way you are claiming the phrase would most likely said simplely "count it as saved"
Not "count it as having been saved."
No, because then you'd still have had an unsaved wound at one point for the purposes of rules that activate after FNP, like Fury Unbound.
Also, if we are really going to say that ES gets to go before FNP please give us a rule or quote that allows for that. Thus holding up your entire arguement. If you really believe that ES activates the second an armor save if failed provide rules support.
"Any model that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule immediately loses its armour save"
I fail to see how the "immediately" in this rule could mean anything apart from "the second an armour save is failed"
We can say that with FNP and Force weapon issue you should wait to see if ES gets to take the armor.
Reasoning for this is that Force could cancel FNP ability to activate, just like FNP can cancel requirement to activate ES.
We could also say that with the FNP and Force Weapon FAQ you should activate ES immediately.
Reasoning for this is that it shares the exact same activation requirements as the Force USR, so they should activate simultaneously.
If we are really gonna go as far as to create situations that are not feasable and then try to argue that since they are absurd and then use that as a guide for other instances you lose focus of the issues, especially if the example was flawed to begin with, as I pointed out very easily. That is no way to create an arguement.
Actually, according to certain viewpoints on how Feel No Pain works, a Librarian dying then coming back to life thanks to the enemy's FNP is entirely feasible, which is why it was used as an example to show the ridiculousness of said viewpoint.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/09 15:45:22
Ailaros wrote:You know what really bugs me? When my opponent, before they show up at the FLGS smears themselves in peanut butter and then makes blood sacrifices to Ashterai by slitting the throat of three male chickens and then smears the spatter pattern into the peanut butter to engrave sacred symbols into their chest and upper arms.
I have a peanut allergy. It's really inconsiderate.
"Long ago in a distant land, I, M'kar, the shape-shifting Master of Chaos, unleashed an unspeakable evil! But a foolish Grey Knight warrior wielding a magic sword stepped forth to oppose me. Before the final blow was struck, I tore open a portal in space and flung him into the Warp, where my evil is law! Now the fool seeks to return to real-space, and undo the evil that is Chaos!" |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 18:38:12
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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PrinceRaven wrote:"Any model that suffers one or more unsaved wounds from a weapon or model with this special rule immediately loses its armour save"
I fail to see how the "immediately" in this rule could mean anything apart from "the second an armour save is failed"
Except a model that makes its FNP roll did not fail its save...
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 19:03:57
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Never Forget Isstvan!
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yes, it acctually "DID" at one point fail its armor save, otherwise FNP itself wouldnt have activated.
You are treating the wound as being saved, and thus discounting it. You are not discounting anything other than the wound.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 23:19:37
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Eihnlazer wrote:yes, it acctually "DID" at one point fail its armor save, otherwise FNP itself wouldnt have activated. You are treating the wound as being saved, and thus discounting it. You are not discounting anything other than the wound.
You have to treat the wound as having been saved. So we have to pretend the model made its armor save and there is not any unsaved wound off of it. To make a model lose an armor save or the Doom regaining life off a saved wound IS breaking the rules.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/09 23:19:46
"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 23:26:38
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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We have to treat the wound as saved after FNP activates, like every other rule in the game.
Making FNP travel back in time breaks the rules with ridiculous side effects such as librarians coming back from the dead and even regaining used warp charges, because their enemy rolled successfully FNP.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/11/09 23:27:40
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 23:43:11
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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copper.talos wrote:We have to treat the wound as saved after FNP activates, like every other rule in the game.
Incorrect, that is not what the rule says...
"...the unsaved Wound is discounted - treat it as having been saved." (35)
You have to treat the unsaved wound as having been saved, you do not "treat the wound as saved after FNP activates" you have to treat it as if you made the save in the first place.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 23:50:49
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Discriminating Deathmark Assassin
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You "treat" - present tense-. Nem's has posted several times explaining the grammar of this.
And anyway, are you in favour of librarians returning to life and regaining used warp charges because their enemy rolled successfully FNP? I never got your feedback on this...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/11/09 23:56:18
Subject: FNP and Entropic Strike
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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copper.talos wrote:You "treat" - present tense-. Nem's has posted several times explaining the grammar of this.
And anyway, are you in favour of librarians returning to life and regaining used warp charges because their enemy rolled successfully FNP? I never got your feedback on this...
and Nem's posts fall short mostly because she hand waves the "Having been saved" language as not mattering.
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"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.
I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!
We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
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