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So I'm getting back into Fantasy. I have about 2500pts of Skaven, which I enjoy, but I don't want to invest in a second army unless it's VERY low model count (so many rats to paint...). I have found I enjoy the challenge of low model count armies in WH40k lately, so I want to do the same in Fantasy. From what I have seen, my choices are:

-Ogres
-Warriors of Chaos "Monstars" list
-Bretonnians

I'm not the biggest fan of painting "spikey bits" models with Chaos, though the bigger guys are cool. Brets are really, really old and a lot of their modes are fine cast making me think they're going to get a full line revamp. Lastly, Ogres just seem like a natural choice, but they're already kinda the "IT" army for powerhouse. While I like the models, I don't need another "TFG" army after my Skaven pull of their shenanigans.I have an affinity for VC, as well, but all those skeletons and zambeez....

My coven throne I painted just because I love VC models (the big ones, at least)


Feedback from the folks?

Ogres aren't TFG. If anything, WoC are TFG, and this is coming from a WoC player. Ogres are fun and flavorful, and I don't know anyone that would get upset at you for playing them. Seeing yet another WoC army, though... well, they have a reputation.

Also, pretty throne. Fellow Buypainted watcher?

VC aren't elite at all. I don't think you can do much to change that.

You can make WoC trolls. But you really got to like trolls. I love the concept of trolls, but the models GW has are rather lousy and limited. You can grab a lot of chariots. But I personally hate chariots. Like every army has them and only like 5% of the world would be suitable for chariot fights. "Yay, another swamp battle after our fight in the mountains. I guess I'll be cooking our dinner again."

Just about everyone will probably say Ogres. You can have a crazy low model count. They hit like bricks. Their heroes/lords can kick face. They have some specials that are truly special (Maneaters, Mournfang, Leadbelchers are nearly the top of their individual categories). 1 of the 2 best cannons in the game for Rare. All of which are super duper expensive points-wise. The only thing is you may find them a little dull to paint. IMHO, you need to do some conversions to make them more interesting. They're big fat naked guys. Period. Are they as boring as rats to paint? Hell no. But rats are tiny and you have a whole lot of stuff like weapons teams. You really only have a handful of Ogres.

 Evertras wrote:

Also, pretty throne. Fellow Buypainted watcher?

No idea what you're talking about

Yeah, I guess Ogres is probably it. But what are Brets like? I hear they can be pretty much all heavy cav and do shenanigans?

You did it gorgeously, for the record. <3

Brets are not so much in the vein you're looking for, I think. Steadfast really hurts the heavy cavalry thing, so there's less shenanigans and more hoops you need to jump through to not die horribly.

I'm suprised no one has mentioned hi elf monster mash.

Lord on star dragon

BsB on Eagle
Dragon Mage

All Cav core usually around 30

Double Frost Heart.

You could also drop the dragon Mage, add in a second noble and a level 2 on horseback and run 7 dragon princes with the banner of the world dragon.

Super fun list catches people off guard.


Edit: I've run this list at two one day tournaments and did extremely well best overall in one and won all 3 games in the second but missed on paint!

Prince - 621
-Star Dragon, Sword of Might, Talisman of Preservation, Heavy Armor, Enchanted Shield

Noble - 168
-Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armor, Shield, B. Steed, Star Lance, Dragon Helm, Golden Crown, Halberd

Mage - 180 (Lore of Beasts)
-Lvl 2, Elven Steed, Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury

Noble - 139
-B. Steed, Ogre Blade, Charmed Shield, Heavy Armor, Potion of Foolhardiness

10x Silver Helms w. Full Command and Shield - 260
5x Ellyrian Reavers w. Bows, Spears - 95
5x Ellyrian Reavers w. Bows, Spears - 95
5x Ellyrian Reavers w. Bows, Spears - 95
5x Ellyrian Reavers - 80

7x Dragon Princes w. Full Command, Banner of the World Dragon - 283

Frost Phoenix
Frost Phoenix

I would also say Ogres and not just cos I play them!

They have a low model count if you don't take gnoblars, they are fun to play being fast, tough and smashy and there is literally no rules of what you can't do when converting them.

Especially Maneaters, the fact that they are mercenaries means you can have endless fun with conversions.

Ogres are fun not TFG. Most of their unit's are viable and look great on the table.

I'm a Bret Player who started last year, so I'll speak for the Humies.

Bretonnians as a whole suffered heavily with the general nerf to heavy cav in the form of steadfast infantry blocks. Which make it harder to break enemies on the charge.

On the other hand, of all the Cav armies in the game, the Bretonnian flavor rules are better suited to dealing with steadfast than any other Cav themed army. The Lance formation allows Bretonnians to get Ranks of 3 on their heavy hitting cav, and furthermore get full attacks (including horses) down the flanks of those formations. This allows Bretonnian Lances to often break steadfast on smaller blocks and sweep them away.

Bretonnia still has trouble dealing with Death Stars, but with the help of the best Stone Thrower in the game [90 points for s5(10)] They can soften up huge hordes a bit easier.

Bretonnia lives and dies by the charge, and not any charge, but the right ones. To really get the most out of a Bretonnian Army you need to take advantage of your high movement speed- horses not slowed by barding, small frontage for quick wheels, pegasus knights, and use that to avoid combating their deathstars until they have been weakend, and mauling support blocks with well executed charges.

Bretonnia is not easy to win with, but Bretonnian Victories often look like a work of art on the table.

You've also got Skaven, so you shouldn't be too worried about having a slightly less competitive army as a second choice. The core of your army will stil be plastic, as Knights of the Realm, Men at Arms, Peasant Bowmen, and Pegasus Knights are all plastic.

I appreciate the High Elf insight, but I am making an Exodite Eldar army currently that features a great deal of high elf conversions. Thank you, though!

I can see a good rousing fight internally of Ogres versus Brets. I have to paint a lot of models, so I'm putting purchases on hold after Eldar unless I find some lucky deals... main;y stick to buying army books/codecis just to learn all I can before making the next leap. I can see myself getting into either. Thank you!

At that point, you should really decide based on what type of army do you like the look of better.

Do you want to be at the head of a column of Knights in Shining Armour with banners a billowing. Or at the smelly head of a mob of the biggest, meanest, and hungriest brutes this side of Carthay?

Really its going to depend on your tastes as to which you would prefer.

It's possible to make an 'elite' army with Tomb Kings as well- it's not competitive in the least, but a Legion of Statues is awesomely impressive, and doesn't have too many models.

Basically, it's Chariots to fill out Core, Ushabti, Warsphinxes and Necropolis Knights as Elite, pretty much any of the Rares (including things like the Heirotitan or Necrolith Colossus and the Necrosphinx- and it's relatively easy to make Colossi and Titans from leftover Warsphinx bits) and maybe a small bunker for your Liche. Though you can go Kitty Crush with upwards of 7(!) T8 sphinxes- your Princes and Kings can ride Warsphinxes, you can get 3 in Special and 2 Necrosphinx in Rare.

The biggest issue is the Heirophant tax, but there's ways around that.

Again, this army can have issues with magic, depending on what you actually outfit your core with and how you spend your Lord and Hero points, but it looks amazing on the table.

How about Dark Elfs Monster List ?

3 Elite Hydra
2 Rare wannabe Hydra
1 Beastmaster on Manticore

Chariot/Monster choices for heroes too...

granted you need a core... well 3 units dark riders will do about 300 points with 15 models...unfortunately there is no chariot or similar core. So you will have to buy elfs with the other 325 points. But elves are expensive buy some command and magic banners and there should not be too many models.

If you dont put much in heroes you can fill elite and rare slots with other low model points... like chariots, boltthrowers, or cav rare mage units for 125 pts on 5 models.

Guess even if you have one big core unit that will let you end up around 60 models? Less if you buy expensive in the core.... you also pack 6 or more monsters... have flexible points for ...shooting for example (BT and core archers) granted could be hard to squeeze a lvl 4 in too... but a lvl 2 fits and if you also run some rare unit casters....

Other thing is you are really low on banners... which can be aweful in one scenario...

I'd think that any army that can take cavalry or chariots as core units can make low model count armies. I mean, an empire army with just reichsguard and inner circle knights with some demygryphs and a few mounted wizards seems like it would have few models and would either win big, or lose big. Plus, the empire can take the emperor on the imperial dragon which can soak up a LOT of points.

Likewise, a beastmen army with nothing but gor chariots and minotaurs would be low model count, or would tomb kings with chariots and monsters, or brettonians with... well, just a giant pile of cascadingly expensive knights.

So long as you stay away from armies that only have cheap junk in their core units (skaven, and VC especially, and to a lesser extent O&G and wood elves), you should be fine.

Sounds more like a case of picking the army you want, and then building the low-model-count build of it, rather than basing your army only around not having many models.

I've been doing some research on my wood elves, and it seems like you could actually make a pretty let scout force using scouts as your main core choice.

At 8.5 skaven slaves per model they're expensive, but you could really hurt someone's battle plan by dropping three units of scouts on the board in various locations while three MSU units of glade guard with musicians (one banner for the flaming shots) can be used to a pretty good effect. The enemy can either make for your battle line as many armies do or they can get pulled in multiple directions which hurts many army's chances of victory.

There is a veteran player that uses this type of army in tournaments around here and I'd say he's about 50/50 win loss. When he loses, it's catastrophic but when he wins it's totally epic as you can just imagine the wood elves coming out of nowhere, turning the enemy into pin cushions and then just disappearing, leaving an army of bodies there as a warning to others!

Edit: I will caveat the above with saying I've only seen it played, I've never actually played with it or against it myself.

As far as low model count goes though, Empire knightly orders may be just the ticket. You can basically make an entire Reiksguard army and it would hit like a ton of bricks, but if someone knows how to deal with 2+ as you are in trouble!

Warriors of Chaos can feild a strong 2400 point list with 11 models. Can any army beat that?
Archaeon or DP
BSB
Sorc
3x Chimerae
5 x Chariot

posted this in the dark elfes thread fits here too

Lord:

High Beastmster on Manticore 300 pkt

Heroes:

Noble + BSB + Manticore 245 pkt

Mage + lvl 2 + Horse (gives light cav) 125 pkt


Core:

5x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers 100 pkt

5x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers 100 pkt

5x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers 100 pkt

5x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers 100 pkt

10x Dark Riders + Shields + Boltthrowers+ CMS 230 pkt

Special:

Hydra + Breath Weapon 180 pkt

Hydra + Breath Weapon 180 pkt

Hydra + Breath Weapon 180 pkt

Rare:

Kharibdyss 160 pkt

Kharibdyss 160 pkt

5x Doomfire Warlocks 125 pkt



This leaves you with 215 pts, to give some equipment to the three chars, or manticore upgrades, or champs to units or Banners. The only thing maybe not perfectly in theme are the Warlocks...though you could arguee they hutn for sacrifices... if you want you can fill the core with spears or bolts instead but this way its... unique ... though maybe not 100% competive.

I feel you need the warlocks because you only have a lvl 2 mage ... but you could also cut them and use 25 points to ad a beastmaster chariot ...which would fit great in the theme but maybe make it weaker... it is really a shame that this boys are not core...would fill the army up very nice... where are the beastmaster special chars to make such rules `? :(

Well in the current Version you pack 7 Monsters as well as 6 units of light cav, 2 of hich are basically mages to get them into the right position easily. Also it has no really expensive targets, but sure requires some hard positioning work to pull of a victory since there is no big combat block... I am sure I would be too bad to play it. On the other hand it has a quite some deploys, which should help out.

Beastmen are a fun way to do a low model count army:

1 run 6-8 chariots with 2-6 5 "man" ungor skirmisher squads to fill in my core.

For special I either run a big unit of Minotaurs or a big unit of bestigors, with some razorgors to fight the small stuff or warmachines.

Generally no points left for rares, and if i do i generally just use spawns to keep people from overrunning my chariots as bump units.

And to lead it I use either a doombull and gorebull BSB, or One-eye and a BSB depending on what unit i use as my smashing unit.

Both just variants to the exact same list and just changing some characters around on either side gives my army numerous ways to play.

Obviously not magic heavy, but thats mainly do to lack of points. But i highly reccomend the horn with the bound spell to move your chariots faster.

This is definetly a win big, or loose big army

All mounted empire would be my choice, even if my horses do seem to kill more than the knights themselves.
A couple of knight busses for core, warmachines and demigryphs as special and hell blasters and steam tank for rare. Can potentially have KF if the game is big enough

Some of these seem hilarious. Thanks again for the insight. I'm still not sold... I feel like I'll make a decision based on what I want to paint the most as others have suggested.

Go Tomb Kings.

Arkhan or setra on chariot.

LArge unit of chariots, monsters casket, skullapults. go.

I'm running Settra on Sunday. I think that he positively requires epic battle music to be played whenever you touch the model.

"Move aside, knaves! King of the world coming through!"

And Tomb Kings models are perhaps some of the best that GW has put out.

Well, the ones that are dedicated Tomb Kings. And actually exist.

I want my Heirotitan!

I tend to agree. Here's my conversion.

What is the base model?

I'm guessing skeletor from he-man.

Speaking for Bretonnians as well.

Started playing around 6 months ago and now own close to 11000 points of Bretonnians.

Overall cost? In between 500 to 600 dollars.

It is such an old book that a lot of people just dump their entire army for ridiculously low amounts as they have not played them in years.

The army is definitely due for a revamp... but you know that horses will likely stay, peasants will as well and likely get better to sell kits. Chances are they will simply add 1-3 new kits so you're doing no wrong in stock piling on horses now (never mind the fact that they will likely go down in points).

As for gameplay itself... You need two trebs. You can do without, but you're crippling yourself if you don't take them. They are magnets for warmachines, but if they don't die and don't scatter, whatever they hit will most likely die really bad.

Steadfast? Never been an issue for me. Your lances can go 6 ranks deep when you have 3 heroes leading from the front. They are big blunt tools, but you have to learn to use them like scalpels. Pick your charges using your chaf and once it's time to charge, hit them with not only one lance, but two if possible. They have the movement and range to allow it and whatever they hit will die in droves.

Yea, I was having a discussion with our gaming group and one of my buds, who owns a large variety of armies, is interested in training his Brets for my rats. I like Skaven, they are strong, but I have more fun with elite armies as previously stated.

Plus Brets give me both a challenge in the world learning freehand painting, but also the flexibility to paint many different and unique schemes: I shouldn't get bored like clan rats!

And for the record, I like Skaven, but I'm not attached to them... I have expunged two 40k armies recently to get Eldar for painting purposes (and to add a splash of Fantasy/High Elves into the mix!). Any army can be competitive with a good player, just some books are flat better than others. I have a great winning streak with Draigowing in 6E, which really shouldn't exist, but it is what it is. I like elite armies as they are easy to transport, more fun to paint (I can "love" each model), and force me to up my game.

Dunno if I'll have me some Brets tomorrow or not, but I should have fun

Well, sounds like you're definitely going Bret then. I still think, if you ever get the urge to do another, to try out the Tomb Kings. Even if you just bought a kit now and then- if you enjoy the modeling and painting aspect of the game so much, the Tomb Kings big models are brilliant.

And you can easily get 3 or 4 models out of a single Sphinx kit- Warsphix, Mummy, a base worth of Tomb Swarms, and you can make a Titan, Colossus or Necrosphinx with a little creative modeling.

 TheKbob wrote:

 Evertras wrote:

Also, pretty throne. Fellow Buypainted watcher?

No idea what you're talking about

I think he's referring to you following this: