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A deep srltriking super heavy carrying a land raider

Ralis wrote:


We can make a few logical conclusion about the new BA codex.
...
Third: They probably will gain access to the Hunter/Stalker

I doubt it. I doubt they'll get centurions either. Probably going to lose a lot of deep strike options as well, and certainly won't gain assault from deep strike.

I would like to see the removal of librarian dreadnoughts, the stripping back of special rules for all units. I guess I could see Death Company with Feel No Pain and Rage, but that's about all I think they should have.

What deep strike options are you talking about? Not that any of them are any good anyway...

 Blacksails wrote:

But that's why I support molding all the marine codices (that all play fundamentally the same anyways and share the overwhelming majority of identical units anyways) into one so that more time and effort are spent balancing the game than a dozen marine codices.

Yes, that totally worked well with Black Templars, they totally play the same now as they did before. Totally didn't lose anythign in the transition at all.

Martel732 wrote:
What deep strike options are you talking about? Not that any of them are any good anyway...

Last I saw they had Deepstriking LandRaiders. Or am I further out of date than I thought? They should go. And their special rules regarding Deep Strike. They can go too.

I would like an exception to the rule for going full reserve so I can play my DoA army the way I intended too. Either that or let me drop half of it on turn one like drop pods. I have a full jump pack army of mostly elite units that make up my Red Hunters collection based on the BA book. The ability to take an army with all jump packs sucks when you have to put half of them on the field in this very shooty edition. I would also like for them to keep some sort of attack from deep strike ability like the Vanguard had (still have in the BA book but not SM so it's probably gone for BA in the rewrite). More nipple armor too please.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 Blacksails wrote:

But that's why I support molding all the marine codices (that all play fundamentally the same anyways and share the overwhelming majority of identical units anyways) into one so that more time and effort are spent balancing the game than a dozen marine codices.

Yes, that totally worked well with Black Templars, they totally play the same now as they did before. Totally didn't lose anythign in the transition at all.

Are you also completely ignoring the over arching edition effects that altered how your army played anyways?

Besides, I still think the Templars should have never been a different codex anyways. Marine are marines. A loss of a small handful of weapon options and a shift of names is hardly a good reason from a gameplay perspective to give every single colour of marine their own codex. The balance issues you have can be fixed with a new edition, and a few tweaks in characters. Again, not a convincing argument against rolling all the marines together.

*Edit* I largely think it was fine. A few point tweaks, a special rule here or there, and they're fine. Not worth an entirely separate book.

 BladeWalker wrote:
I would like an exception to the rule for going full reserve so I can play my DoA army the way I intended too. Either that or let me drop half of it on turn one like drop pods. I have a full jump pack army of mostly elite units that make up my Red Hunters collection based on the BA book. The ability to take an army with all jump packs sucks when you have to put half of them on the field in this very shooty edition. I would also like for them to keep some sort of attack from deep strike ability like the Vanguard had (still have in the BA book but not SM so it's probably gone for BA in the rewrite). More nipple armor too please.

I like this one, though they will probably screw it up like they did the Deathwing.

model wise they dont need anything. the have a giant range available as it is.
could use updated tycho, dante and mephiston i guess.

the game overall is such a broken turd i wont bother commenting rules wise.

kb305 wrote:


the game overall is such a broken turd i wont bother commenting rules wise.

This made me chuckle. Pretty much how I feel when I browse the proposed rules section these days.

well this has been filled with constructive good ideas so far hasn't it? so far I've gathered get rid of the things that make BA's play as BA's.

Anyways lets start off with the basics

-Cheaper JPs , stop charging us an arm and a leg for a JP in an army that's supposed to be full of them.
-Also I do believe that BA should be better at CC than their vanilla counterparts, making them WS5 or 1 Initiative higher sure as heck isn't going to break them and it fits fluff wise, CC its what they train to do.
-BA are also in general very VERY dependent on getting the charge off , Especially things like DC with a Chaplain, so maybe think of giving some units counter attack to help make up for the fact that opponents can and will charge you first so you don't get to take advantage of any of your special rules.

 BlackArmour wrote:
well this has been filled with constructive good ideas so far hasn't it? so far I've gathered get rid of the things that make BA's play as BA's.

You not liking other people's wishes doesn't make them any less valid or constructive.

 BlackArmour wrote:
so far I've gathered get rid of the things that make BA's play as BA's.

Except that's not true at all. Look at the things that define BA, as opposed to all the random filler units that GW had to invent to justify giving them an entire codex. The core of the army is:

1) Assault squads as troops.

2) Fast vehicles.

3) Black rage.

So, put them in C:SM with the following chapter tactics:

Rapid Assault: The BA chapter is known for their fast, aggressive assault tactics. Assault squads drop into battle from Thunderhawk gunships, while their armored spearheads race forward to support them. An army with Chapter Tactics: BA may take assault squads as troops, and all Rhino-hull vehicles gain the Fast subtype (their special Predator turrets are just part of C:SM).

Red Thirst/Black Rage: The BA suffer from a crippling flaw: at any moment they could give in to their rage and be consumed by it, becoming little more than mindless killing machines. All BA models gain the Furious Charge USR and FNP (4+) against all close combat attacks. Before deployment roll A D6 for each unit with Chapter Tactics: BA in your army. On a 1 the unit also gains the Rage USR, but is never counted as a scoring or denial unit, and always counts as being destroyed at the end of the game in missions where this is relevant.

There, now you've captured the entire concept of the BA chapter without needing to spend an entire codex on them.

 Blacksails wrote:

 BlackArmour wrote:
well this has been filled with constructive good ideas so far hasn't it? so far I've gathered get rid of the things that make BA's play as BA's.

You not liking other people's wishes doesn't make them any less valid or constructive.

I didn't say that it did, however people need to accept that they aren't going into the SM codex, so there's no real point in saying it at this point.

Also I always find it funny that people in these sorts of threads come in and tell you want rules they want to disappear that are used against them, yet when it comes a go around for their codex they have a wish list a mile long. all while jumping into other threads about how the games unbalanced.

 BlackArmour wrote:
however people need to accept that they aren't going into the SM codex, so there's no real point in saying it at this point.

How is that different from any of the other wishlisting in this thread?

Also I always find it funny that people in these sorts of threads come in and tell you want rules they want to disappear that are used against them, yet when it comes a go around for their codex they have a wish list a mile long.

This is not true at all. I don't want these rules to disappear because they're used against me, I want them to disappear because they're redundant. BA are Ultramarines with a couple different USRs, not a completely different army that deserves an entire codex and release slot, especially when GW can't keep all of their armies up to date. And no, I don't have a mile-long wishlist from my own codex.

 BlackArmour wrote:


I didn't say that it did, however people need to accept that they aren't going into the SM codex, so there's no real point in saying it at this point.

Also I always find it funny that people in these sorts of threads come in and tell you want rules they want to disappear that are used against them, yet when it comes a go around for their codex they have a wish list a mile long. all while jumping into other threads about how the games unbalanced.

Pretty easy to paint with broad strokes, eh?

This is wishlisting thread, and I wish the BA codex was rolled in to C:SM. There's as much point in me saying that as anyone else here saying they want a 50pts reduction on unit X.

Anyways, Peregrine has already laid out just about everything BA need.

The only thing I can see on top of that is 2-3 SCs brought in, an upgrade for venerable dreads to be librarians, and everyone gains access to Apothecaries, bought like Sanguinary priests are. I could see Death company brought in as their special unit only they have access to.

Done.

 Peregrine wrote:

 BlackArmour wrote:
however people need to accept that they aren't going into the SM codex, so there's no real point in saying it at this point.

How is that different from any of the other wishlisting in this thread?

Oh snap!

That said, I'd rather not see existing Codices go away, but BA has a hard time truly justifying itself without some big contrived additions... especially in the age of Supplements (of course, the Supplement books suck compared to their 3rd ed equivalents, but that's besides the point).

Yes this is a Wish list thread, but the idea is for realistic wants and need not crazy stuff.

 Peregrine wrote:


How is that different from any of the other wishlisting in this thread?

because this wish isn't going to happen any time soon if ever, neither does it really have anything to do with what the thread was supposed to be about. The statement itself is redundant , in almost every BA thread someone has to come in and say I want the codex to go bye bye.

Could you roll them into codex SM? SURE and you could do the same for Grey Knights and SW if you really want but is it going to happen? no likely not

Everyone's entitled to their opinion but I just wish the thread was about what it was supposed to be about and not , lets get rid of them or get rid of a lot of their special rules.

I still want Sanguinor and the stupid priests gone. Unless they are going to do something better than hand out FNP 5+.

Assault from deep strike for all their units. My brother in law plays blood angels and i'd love to see their assault units become useful again.

 BlackArmour wrote:


because this wish isn't going to happen any time soon if ever, neither does it really have anything to do with what the thread was supposed to be about.

You mean like all the other things being wishlisted here? And how is it not what the thread is about?

You wish for cheaper assault squads.

I wish for the codex to be rolled in with another one.

I don't know how that isn't the purpose of the thread. If you only wanted to hear opinions that matched your own, maybe you should specify that.

Wanting to roll them in is fine. Except that C:SM was just published. GW was never going to pass up another codex to sell. Although they did with BT, admittedly.

Martel732 wrote:
Wanting to roll them in is fine. Except that C:SM was just published. GW was never going to pass up another codex to sell. Although they did with BT, admittedly.

Well, considering things change all the time, its perfectly within the realm of possibility to do something a la FW and release as some sort of supplement/dataslate. As per Peregrine's post, you could use that very CT, then add in 3 special characters, a librarian upgrade for dreadnoughts, and death company as their special troop choice.

Its not overly difficult to do (quite the opposite), and it wouldn't be the craziest thing GW has done.

Quite frankly, that's my wishlist. No crazier than wanting a ton of new options and vehicles and price cuts everywhere.

 Blacksails wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
Wanting to roll them in is fine. Except that C:SM was just published. GW was never going to pass up another codex to sell. Although they did with BT, admittedly.

Well, considering things change all the time, its perfectly within the realm of possibility to do something a la FW and release as some sort of supplement/dataslate. As per Peregrine's post, you could use that very CT, then add in 3 special characters, a librarian upgrade for dreadnoughts, and death company as their special troop choice.

Its not overly difficult to do (quite the opposite), and it wouldn't be the craziest thing GW has done.

Quite frankly, that's my wishlist. No crazier than wanting a ton of new options and vehicles and price cuts everywhere.

No one said it wasn't possible , hell I admitted as much and like I said the same could be said for the other SM chapters with their own codex's and throwing out supplements on top to make them all fit nice and pretty into one book.

Considering that as pointed out C:SM was just released and BA are still their own codex it makes your wish far more crazier than people wanting points costs to come in line with other 6th ed. codexs , and options to give an assault army a snowballs chance in a shoot first ask questions later edition and there's been a new kit released in all the 6th codexs so speculation about what it might be for the BA isn't out of line either.

Considering how badly things CAN go, there are only a few things I want to see with the new BA codex:

---A points drop to put the BA units in line with the other Power Armor codecies.

---2 chapter relics that are actually usable.

---Dante should have Eternal Warrior.

I feel I've already asked for too much.

 Voidwraith wrote:
Considering how badly things CAN go, there are only a few things I want to see with the new BA codex:

---A points drop to put the BA units in line with the other Power Armor codecies.

---2 chapter relics that are actually usable.

---Dante should have Eternal Warrior.

I feel I've already asked for too much.

thanks! now Dantes going to go up in points and end up with a 3+ save

Dante is so bad. Makes me sad.

Realistically...leadership values on...I think it's Death Company? Yea, first time I play Tyranids against my friend's Blood Angels, I get introduced to a large force of anti-ld models. It did not end well when I realized a decent chunk of them had double thunder hammers...

 Unyielding Hunger wrote:
Realistically...leadership values on...I think it's Death Company? Yea, first time I play Tyranids against my friend's Blood Angels, I get introduced to a large force of anti-ld models. It did not end well when I realized a decent chunk of them had double thunder hammers...

Death Company are LD8 and Fearless. He probably threw a Reclusiarch (leadership 10) in there for extra buffs. Not sure how their leadership affects Tyranids.