Switch Theme:

Climate impacts 'overwhelming' - UN  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

The IPCC's website

Source

The impacts of global warming are likely to be "severe, pervasive and irreversible", a major report by the UN has warned.

Scientists and officials meeting in Japan say the document is the most comprehensive assessment to date of the impacts of climate change on the world.

Some impacts of climate change include a higher risk of flooding and changes to crop yields and water availability.

Humans may be able to adapt to some of these changes, but only within limits.

An example of an adaptation strategy would be the construction of sea walls and levees to protect against flooding. Another might be introducing more efficient irrigation for farmers in areas where water is scarce.

Natural systems are currently bearing the brunt of climatic changes, but a growing impact on humans is feared.

Members of the UN's climate panel say it provides overwhelming evidence of the scale of these effects.

Our health, homes, food and safety are all likely to be threatened by rising temperatures, the summary says.

The report was agreed after almost a week of intense discussions here in Yokohama, which included concerns among some authors about the tone of the evolving document.

This is the second of a series from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) due out this year that outlines the causes, effects and solutions to global warming.
This latest Summary for Policymakers document highlights the fact that the amount of scientific evidence on the impacts of warming has almost doubled since the last report in 2007.

Be it the melting of glaciers or warming of permafrost, the summary highlights the fact that on all continents and across the oceans, changes in the climate have caused impacts on natural and human systems in recent decades.

In the words of the report, "increasing magnitudes of warming increase the likelihood of severe, pervasive and irreversible impacts".

"Nobody on this planet is going to be untouched by the impacts of climate change,'' IPCC chairman Rajendra Pachauri told journalists at a news conference in Yokohama.

Dr Saleemul Huq, a convening lead author on one of the chapters, commented: "Before this we thought we knew this was happening, but now we have overwhelming evidence that it is happening and it is real."

Michel Jarraud, secretary-general of the World Meteorological Organization, said that, previously, people could have damaged the Earth's climate out of "ignorance".

"Now, ignorance is no longer a good excuse," he said.

Mr Jarraud said the report was based on more than 12,000 peer-reviewed scientific studies. He said this document was "the most solid evidence you can get in any scientific discipline".

US Secretary of State John Kerry commented: "Unless we act dramatically and quickly, science tells us our climate and our way of life are literally in jeopardy. Denial of the science is malpractice."

He added: "No single country causes climate change, and no one country can stop it. But we need to match the urgency of our response with the scale of the science."

Ed Davey, the UK Energy and Climate Secretary said: "The science has clearly spoken. Left unchecked, climate change will impact on many aspects of our society, with far reaching consequences to human health, global food security and economic development.

"The recent flooding in the UK is a testament to the devastation that climate change could bring to our daily lives."

The report details significant short-term impacts on natural systems in the next 20 to 30 years. It details five reasons for concern that would likely increase as a result of the warming the world is already committed to.

These include threats to unique systems such as Arctic sea ice and coral reefs, where risks are said to increase to "very high" with a 2C rise in temperatures.

The summary document outlines impacts on the seas and on freshwater systems as well. The oceans will become more acidic, threatening coral and the many species that they harbour.

On land, animals, plants and other species will begin to move towards higher ground or towards the poles as the mercury rises.

Humans, though, are also increasingly affected as the century goes on.

Food security is highlighted as an area of significant concern. Crop yields for maize, rice and wheat are all hit in the period up to 2050, with around a tenth of projections showing losses over 25%.

After 2050, the risk of more severe yield impacts increases, as boom-and-bust cycles affect many regions. All the while, the demand for food from a population estimated to be around nine billion will rise.

Many fish species, a critical food source for many, will also move because of warmer waters.

In some parts of the tropics and in Antarctica, potential catches could decline by more than 50%.

"This is a sobering assessment," said Prof Neil Adger from the University of Exeter, another IPCC author.

"Going into the future, the risks only increase, and these are about people, the impacts on crops, on the availability of water and particularly, the extreme events on people's lives and livelihoods."

People will be affected by flooding and heat related mortality. The report warns of new risks including the threat to those who work outside, such as farmers and construction workers. There are concerns raised over migration linked to climate change, as well as conflict and national security.

Report co-author Maggie Opondo of the University of Nairobi said that in places such as Africa, climate change and extreme events mean "people are going to become more vulnerable to sinking deeper into poverty".

While the poorer countries are likely to suffer more in the short term, the rich won't escape.

"The rich are going to have to think about climate change. We're seeing that in the UK, with the floods we had a few months ago, and the storms we had in the US and the drought in California," said Dr Huq.

"These are multibillion dollar events that the rich are going to have to pay for, and there's a limit to what they can pay."

But it is not all bad news, as the co-chair of the working group that drew up the report points out.

"I think the really big breakthrough in this report is the new idea of thinking about managing climate change as a problem in managing risks," said Dr Chris Field.

"Climate change is really important but we have a lot of the tools for dealing effectively with it - we just need to be smart about it."

There is far greater emphasis to adapting to the impacts of climate in this new summary. The problem, as ever, is who foots the bill?

"It is not up to IPCC to define that," said Dr Jose Marengo, a Brazilian government official who attended the talks.

"It provides the scientific basis to say this is the bill, somebody has to pay, and with the scientific grounds it is relatively easier now to go to the climate negotiations in the UNFCCC (United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change) and start making deals about who will pay for adaptation."


Heard about this on BBC last night and I thought I might post it.

Edit: More sources just for choice
USA today
CNN
The Guardian
WSJ
Aljazeera
NBC

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 16:09:47


Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Moustache-twirling Princeps





Gone-to-ground in the craters of Coventry

Maybe the deniers might start listening.
There's no mention of insurance, and with pay-outs going up, shouldn't a share of premiums go towards prevention?

6000 pts - Harlies: 1000 pts - 4000 pts - 1000 pts - 1000 pts DS:70+S+G++MB+IPw40k86/f+D++A++/cWD64R+T(T)DM+
IG/AM force nearly-finished pieces: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/images-38888-41159_Armies%20-%20Imperial%20Guard.html
"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing." - George Bernard Shaw (probably)
Clubs around Coventry, UK https://discord.gg/6Gk7Xyh5Bf 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

That's a hope in any case .
Now that we have a multi-governmental report, something might actually change.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

I'm not denying that there's climate change... as in, we have fething weather.

I'm all for "green energy alternatives" and for practical, sensible policies on human waste.

But the IPCC pushing the hockey stick data point loses all credibility for me.

Also, "Carbon Tax" initative is nothing more than a wealth transfer mechanism. It's a scam.

And if anyone keeps pushing this "the science is settled on this" has no fething clue.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 16:33:52


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Skinnereal wrote:
Maybe the deniers might start listening.
There's no mention of insurance, and with pay-outs going up, shouldn't a share of premiums go towards prevention?


Blah blah. Gulf Coast has avoided major hurricanes since OMG GLOABAL WAMRINZ! so I am ok with it.
At worst Canada becomes the breadbasket of the world.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 16:41:04


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Frazzled wrote:
 Skinnereal wrote:
Maybe the deniers might start listening.
There's no mention of insurance, and with pay-outs going up, shouldn't a share of premiums go towards prevention?


Blah blah. Gulf Coast has avoided major hurricanes since OMG GLOABAL WAMRINZ! so I am ok with it.
At worst Canada becomes the breadbasket of the world.

Hmmmm, maple syrup, bread, and poutine

 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
 Skinnereal wrote:
Maybe the deniers might start listening.
There's no mention of insurance, and with pay-outs going up, shouldn't a share of premiums go towards prevention?


Blah blah. Gulf Coast has avoided major hurricanes since OMG GLOABAL WAMRINZ! so I am ok with it.
At worst Canada becomes the breadbasket of the world.

Hmmmm, maple syrup, bread, and poutine


I admit it, I had to look up poutine.

This will be on my bucket list.
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

 whembly wrote:
I'm not denying that there's climate change... as in, we have fething weather.

I'm all for "green energy alternatives" and for practical, sensible policies on human waste.

But the IPCC pushing the hockey stick data point loses all credibility for me.

Also, "Carbon Tax" initative is nothing more than a wealth transfer mechanism. It's a scam.

And if anyone keeps pushing this "the science is settled on this" has no fething clue.


I'm not sure what you are saying s\with your first quote....

Also
Dr Saleemul Huq, a convening lead author on one of the chapters, commented: "Before this we thought we knew this was happening, but now we have overwhelming evidence that it is happening and it is real."

Ed Davey, the UK Energy and Climate Secretary said: "The science has clearly spoken. Left unchecked, climate change will impact on many aspects of our society, with far reaching consequences to human health, global food security and economic development.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

 whembly wrote:
I'm not denying that there's climate change... as in, we have fething weather.

I'm all for "green energy alternatives" and for practical, sensible policies on human waste.

But the IPCC pushing the hockey stick data point loses all credibility for me.

Also, "Carbon Tax" initative is nothing more than a wealth transfer mechanism. It's a scam.

And if anyone keeps pushing this "the science is settled on this" has no fething clue.



This.

I live near chicago, and we set a record for days under zero this winter. We had several feet of snow that stuck for 4 months.

That doesn't fit the "man made global warming" agenda however, so now its "climate change" and raising temps can lead to more snow and colder winters...

The agenda continues.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
 whembly wrote:
I'm not denying that there's climate change... as in, we have fething weather.

I'm all for "green energy alternatives" and for practical, sensible policies on human waste.

But the IPCC pushing the hockey stick data point loses all credibility for me.

Also, "Carbon Tax" initative is nothing more than a wealth transfer mechanism. It's a scam.

And if anyone keeps pushing this "the science is settled on this" has no fething clue.


I'm not sure what you are saying s\with your first quote....

Also
Dr Saleemul Huq, a convening lead author on one of the chapters, commented: "Before this we thought we knew this was happening, but now we have overwhelming evidence that it is happening and it is real."

Ed Davey, the UK Energy and Climate Secretary said: "The science has clearly spoken. Left unchecked, climate change will impact on many aspects of our society, with far reaching consequences to human health, global food security and economic development.



Perhaps he is pointing out that our records of the earths climate changes are nothing but a speck of sand in a desert.

No one on this planet is qualified to say what the temperature or climate of the earth is "supposed" to be.

As such, we know we have warm periods, and we have cold periods. We had a warm period recently. That in no way proves the earth is being irreverseably damaged by man.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 17:32:28


insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

Do you deny that the CO2 in our atmosphere has spiked do to human emissions.


Also, your using the "It's cold, climate change can't exist!" defense.

Also, from the EPA website
The major scientific agencies of the United States — including the National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) and the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) — agree that climate change is occurring and that humans are contributing to it. In 2010, the National Research Council concluded that "Climate change is occurring, is very likely caused by human activities, and poses significant risks for a broad range of human and natural systems". Many independent scientific organizations have released similar statements, both in the United States and abroad. This doesn't necessarily mean that every scientist sees eye to eye on each component of the climate change problem, but broad agreement exists that climate change is happening and is primarily caused by excess greenhouse gases from human activities.

Scientists are still researching a number of important questions, including exactly how much Earth will warm, how quickly it will warm, and what the consequences of the warming will be in specific regions of the world. Scientists continue to research these questions so society can be better informed about how to plan for a changing climate. However, enough certainty exists about basic causes and effects of climate change to justify taking actions that reduce future risks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 17:38:33


Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
 whembly wrote:
I'm not denying that there's climate change... as in, we have fething weather.

I'm all for "green energy alternatives" and for practical, sensible policies on human waste.

But the IPCC pushing the hockey stick data point loses all credibility for me.

Also, "Carbon Tax" initative is nothing more than a wealth transfer mechanism. It's a scam.

And if anyone keeps pushing this "the science is settled on this" has no fething clue.


I'm not sure what you are saying s\with your first quote....

"Climate Change" is the new euphemism for the "Global Warming™" hysteria.

I realize that there's many, many things that we don't understand about our climate and our potential impact. But, I view many "studies" by both the government and UN regarding climate whenever the "science is settled" crap.

When "the science has clearly spoken" jargons get thrown about... it really means, "shut the feth up and gimmie your money".

Also
Dr Saleemul Huq, a convening lead author on one of the chapters, commented: "Before this we thought we knew this was happening, but now we have overwhelming evidence that it is happening and it is real."

Ed Davey, the UK Energy and Climate Secretary said: "The science has clearly spoken. Left unchecked, climate change will impact on many aspects of our society, with far reaching consequences to human health, global food security and economic development.

Again... let's have some peer reviews first before claiming we need to do something stat!

Or, just back up the salt truck!

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

 whembly wrote:
I realize that there's many, many things that we don't understand about our climate and our potential impact. But, I view many "studies" by both the government and UN regarding climate whenever the "science is settled" crap.

I'm sorry, you don't view the studies by the US government and the fething UN as legitimate. I don't even see any point in debating you if you ignore facts to support your view.

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

Sorry, but a couple hundred years of records compared to BILLIONS of years of this planets existance does not make for an accurate assessment.

Using a sample size that small would be laughed out of any real research study, but there is an agenda, and money to be made.

I remember how serious FAIL Gore said global warming would be, and I also remember how much money he spent on "carbon credits" so he could continue to live his lavish life style all while telling us all we were killing our planet with suv's.

I love how you ignored the fact that lots of areas have actually been COLDER than normal, in the US at least.

Cue answer that global warming causes colder winters and more snowfall blah blah

How many years did they say we had till it was too late for our planet?

Whats your excuse gonna when we blow past that date huh?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 17:49:44


insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Think about it. Canada develops, Texas and Louisiana realize there are French and at least one Spanish speaking person there are being oppressed. Shortly after, 10,000 rednecks in pickups without identifying markers (other than Budweiser and Duck Dynasty) led by a Messianic wiener dog arrive to help insure free and fair elections concerning annexation into Greater Texas. Off shore a Battleship with "Texas" scratched through patrols in case the Brits or Belgiums get uppity.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
 whembly wrote:
I realize that there's many, many things that we don't understand about our climate and our potential impact. But, I view many "studies" by both the government and UN regarding climate whenever the "science is settled" crap.

I'm sorry, you don't view the studies by the US government and the fething UN as legitimate. I don't even see any point in debating you if you ignore facts to support your view.

I'm sorry... you think the IPCC, in fact an arm of the United Nations, is all about legitimate facts?

O.o

You do know who's in the UN... right? It consists of countries mostly rated as either “not free” or “partly free” by Freedom House, and which Russian and China both having veto powers. You think they're all concerned about outright facts and legitimancy?

Dude...



This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/31 17:58:55


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
 whembly wrote:
I realize that there's many, many things that we don't understand about our climate and our potential impact. But, I view many "studies" by both the government and UN regarding climate whenever the "science is settled" crap.

I'm sorry, you don't view the studies by the US government and the fething UN as legitimate. I don't even see any point in debating you if you ignore facts to support your view.


Cool we win.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

BarBoBot:
Well we can't get billions of years now can we? From our current knowledge we see the world's average (got to remember that, average, no all) temperature is going up. I live in
NY, we had a cold winter. That doesn't mean that climate change does not exist, and it is an argument that has no meaning. We have created holes in out ozone layer. The CO2 in our atmosphere has increased dramatically. Temperature has gone up while at the same time solar activity has actually gone down.

whembly: Yes, I do think it is legitimate, and I did say UN, I know it's part of the UN. Why would a climate change report be altered by these countries. If anything anything most countries, possibly Russia, and most definitely China, one of our biggest polluters, would try to affect the report in the other direction so they don't have to spend more money.

Also, could you put some facts in the "money to be made" thing.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 18:01:30


Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






sure climate change is 100% real.

the climate has been changing, forever, and has been much warmer then it is right now in the past.

all without humans doing it.

Fact is, most green house emissions are not caused by humans

even if 100% of man made emissions dissipated overnight, its a drop in the bucket compared to the NATURALLY produced ones. the earth has warmed by 3+ degrees before, it will again.

Climate change is real, and its a natural and recurring process.





really, the only thing we need to worry about are things like CFC s , and those are already banned in most cases.

That being said there isnt anything wrong with implementing green energy, aside from the fact that it cannot (aside from nuclear) provide the same energy density at the same cheap cost we have now.

The garbage we throw out causes far more damage to our health and planet then our effect on heating the planet up, and that we can actually have an effect on.

95% of the garbage we throw out can be avoided, having actual measurable positive effects.




This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/03/31 18:13:33


 
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Spacemanvic wrote:
I admit it, I had to look up poutine.

This will be on my bucket list.

Some places around here do an Americanized version of poutine, and it is pretty damn good

 
   
Made in us
Powerful Orc Big'Un





Somewhere in the steamy jungles of the south...

This thread makes me despair for humanity.

~Tim?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/03/31 18:11:25


   
Made in us
Blood Angel Captain Wracked with Visions






 Frazzled wrote:
Think about it. Canada develops, Texas and Louisiana realize there are French and at least one Spanish speaking person there are being oppressed. Shortly after, 10,000 rednecks in pickups without identifying markers (other than Budweiser and Duck Dynasty) led by a Messianic wiener dog arrive to help insure free and fair elections concerning annexation into Greater Texas. Off shore a Battleship with "Texas" scratched through patrols in case the Brits or Belgiums get uppity.

Well, if Putin insists on setting precedents

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 whembly wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
 whembly wrote:
I realize that there's many, many things that we don't understand about our climate and our potential impact. But, I view many "studies" by both the government and UN regarding climate whenever the "science is settled" crap.

I'm sorry, you don't view the studies by the US government and the fething UN as legitimate. I don't even see any point in debating you if you ignore facts to support your view.

I'm sorry... you think the IPCC, in fact an arm of the United Nations, is all about legitimate facts?

O.o

You do know who's in the UN... right? It consists of countries mostly rated as either “not free” or “partly free” by Freedom House, and which Russian and China both having veto powers. You think they're all concerned about outright facts and legitimancy?

Dude...





All of which have a definite and massive interest in getting money without, er doing anything.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Evasive Pleasureseeker



Lost in a blizzard, somewhere near Toronto

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
 whembly wrote:
I realize that there's many, many things that we don't understand about our climate and our potential impact. But, I view many "studies" by both the government and UN regarding climate whenever the "science is settled" crap.

I'm sorry, you don't view the studies by the US government and the fething UN as legitimate. I don't even see any point in debating you if you ignore facts to support your view.


The UN's view on so-called "Climate Risk" = 'it's all rich people's fault'.

The real world reasons for horrific severe storm outcomes = massive population increases & growing densities along highly vulnerable coastlines & natural flood plains.


Seriously, you think this planet has never before seen massive storms like Superstorm Sandy, or hurricanes Katrina/Hyane? Maybe, just maybe, the real culprit is the fact that people;
a) are living much, much longer since the industrial revolution
b) uncontrolled population growth and urban sprawl is settling huge portions of our growing & longer living population in areas at or below sea level in regions with naturally occurring major storm cycles.

And before you start crying "but the polar ice caps are melting!!!", try and remember the following;
a) the ice pack saw a dramatic increase this past year due in part to the coldest winter in 35+ years, which was caused by a shift in the Jetstream.
b) the polar ice caps are actually a fairly new feature of our planet, being only 100000+ years old.


As we tend to say up here, "if you don't like the look of the weather out your front door, go look out your back door - it's probably different!"

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Co'tor Shas wrote:
BarBoBot:
Well we can't get billions of years now can we? From our current knowledge we see the world's average (got to remember that, average, no all) temperature is going up. I live in
NY, we had a cold winter. That doesn't mean that climate change does not exist, and it is an argument that has no meaning. We have created holes in out ozone layer. The CO2 in our atmosphere has increased dramatically. Temperature has gone up while at the same time solar activity has actually gone down.

whembly: Yes, I do think it is legitimate, and I did say UN, I know it's part of the UN. Why would a climate change report be altered by these countries. If anything anything most countries, possibly Russia, and most definitely China, one of our biggest polluters, would try to affect the report in the other direction so they don't have to spend more money.

Also, could you put some facts in the "money to be made" thing.

In any scientific "debates"... you need review both sides of the debate.

You have the IPCC, an outfit of the UN, down pat.

Do some research on their counterpart, they're all over the place on the 'net. Here's one: The NIPCC, a group that describes itself as:
The Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC) is an international panel of nongovernment scientists and scholars who have come together to present a comprehensive, authoritative, and realistic assessment of the science and economics of global warming. Because it is not a government agency, and because its members are not predisposed to believe climate change is caused by human greenhouse gas emissions, NIPCC is able to offer an independent “second opinion” of the evidence reviewed – or not reviewed – by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) on the issue of global warming.


Looks like they've just released another report too... here's the conclusion:
Conclusion

Climate Change Reconsidered II: Biological Impacts
describes thousands of peer-reviewed scientific
journal articles that do not support, and often flatly
contradict, IPCC’s pessimistic narrative of “death,
injury, and disrupted livelihoods.” The impact of
rising temperatures and higher atmospheric CO2
levels in the twentieth and early twenty-first centuries
has not been anything like what IPCC would have us
believe, and its forecasts differ wildly from those
sound science would suggest.

Why is this research and perspective missing
from IPCC’s reports? NIPCC has been publishing
volumes containing this research for five years—long
enough, one would think, for the authors of IPCC’s
reports to have taken notice, if only to disagree. But
the drafts of the Working Group II contribution to
IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report suggest otherwise.
Either IPCC’s authors purposely ignore this research
because it runs counter to their thesis that any human
impact on climate must be bad and therefore stopped
at any cost, or they are inept and have failed to
conduct a proper and full scientific investigation of
the pertinent literature. Either way, IPCC is
misleading the scientific community, policymakers,
and the general public. Because the stakes are high,
this is a grave disservice.

How CO2 enrichment has affected global food
production and biospheric productivity is a matter of
fact, not opinion. The evidence is overwhelming that
it has and will continue to help plants thrive, leading
to greater biodiversity, shrinking deserts, expanded
habitat for wildlife, and more food for a growing
human population. In sharp contrast to IPCC’s
pessimistic forecast of declining food production,
NIPCC’s authors say “a future warming of the climate
coupled with rising atmospheric CO2 levels will boost
global agricultural production and help meet the food
needs of the planet’s growing population.” They find
“the positive direct effects of CO2 on crop yields tend
to overcome any negative effects associated with
changed weather conditions.”

Journalists, policymakers, and the interested
public should demand to know why IPCC either hides
or is silent about these truths.

They've included a feth ton of references and peer-reviewed articles in these reports if you want to take the next step and review it.

The point being, there are many legitimate scientific critics of the IPCC that should provide at least a red-flag for you... and maybe, not just take the UN/Government's study as gospel.

All this says to me, really, is that we really don't KNOW how climate works and what is, if any, the human impact. That doesn't mean we should stop researching this, nor does it mean we shouldn't advocate for alternative/clean energy sources... but, it does mean that we should be very wary of any bureaucrats asking for money in the name of "Climate Change™".

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in gb
Lord Commander in a Plush Chair





Beijing

 easysauce wrote:
Fact is, most green house emissions are not caused by humans

even if 100% of man made emissions dissipated overnight, its a drop in the bucket compared to the NATURALLY produced ones.


Are you being wilfully ignorant? It's never been claimed humans are the sole cause of things like CO2, but they part we do play is highly relevant given the system in which it operates. The issue is that there are sources and sinks of all these emissions and they broadly lie in an equilibrium which shifts slightly one way or the other over time causing the sorts of climate change seen across thousands and millions of years. The issue with human activity is that we are putting an increase of emissions into a system that was previously well balanced, and taking deforestation into account we are also destroying some of the sinks to CO2. Futhermore, geologically speaking, these increases have been achieved over night. Saying 'but but there's a huge volume produced naturally so what we do doesn't matter' is a dishonest argument obvious to anyone with some scientific understanding.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

So the answer is destroy our economies and give money to poor countries right?

Bleep that.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






 Howard A Treesong wrote:
 easysauce wrote:
Fact is, most green house emissions are not caused by humans

even if 100% of man made emissions dissipated overnight, its a drop in the bucket compared to the NATURALLY produced ones.


Are you being wilfully ignorant? It's never been claimed humans are the sole cause of things like CO2, but they part we do play is highly relevant given the system in which it operates. The issue is that there are sources and sinks of all these emissions and they broadly lie in an equilibrium which shifts slightly one way or the other over time causing the sorts of climate change seen across thousands and millions of years. The issue with human activity is that we are putting an increase of emissions into a system that was previously well balanced, and taking deforestation into account we are also destroying some of the sinks to CO2. Futhermore, geologically speaking, these increases have been achieved over night. Saying 'but but there's a huge volume produced naturally so what we do doesn't matter' is a dishonest argument obvious to anyone with some scientific understanding.


you are the one being ignorant....

the earth has been around for a looooonnnggggg time.

the level of C02 has been going DOWN long term, and we are no where close to pre historic levels.

yes, man made emissions appeared suddenly... as a sudden drop in the bucket might... doesnt mean the pail over flows when a single drop arrives suddenly.

otherwise every time a large volcano erupts and throws out more green house gasses in one eruption the we do in 50 + years, the world would end.


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 18:43:17


 
   
Made in us
Blood-Raging Khorne Berserker




South Chicago burbs

Thats right, tank our economy, while the people who lead the charge don't stop anything they do, because they can afford "carbon credits"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/03/31 18:46:19


insaniak wrote:
YMDC has plenty of room for discussion veering away from the RAW, particularly in cases like this where what is being put forward as the RAW is absurd.

11k
4K
4k
 
   
Made in de
Camouflaged Zero






 easysauce wrote:
the level of C02 has been going DOWN, and we are no where close to pre historic levels.


Thanks for making me laugh.
   
Made in us
Wise Ethereal with Bodyguard




Catskills in NYS

 whembly wrote:
 Co'tor Shas wrote:
BarBoBot:
Well we can't get billions of years now can we? From our current knowledge we see the world's average (got to remember that, average, no all) temperature is going up. I live in
NY, we had a cold winter. That doesn't mean that climate change does not exist, and it is an argument that has no meaning. We have created holes in out ozone layer. The CO2 in our atmosphere has increased dramatically. Temperature has gone up while at the same time solar activity has actually gone down.

whembly: Yes, I do think it is legitimate, and I did say UN, I know it's part of the UN. Why would a climate change report be altered by these countries. If anything anything most countries, possibly Russia, and most definitely China, one of our biggest polluters, would try to affect the report in the other direction so they don't have to spend more money.

Also, could you put some facts in the "money to be made" thing.

In any scientific "debates"... you need review both sides of the debate.

You have the IPCC, an outfit of the UN, down pat.

Do some research on their counterpart, they're all over the place on the 'net. Here's one: The NIPCC, a group that describes itself as:
The Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC) is an international panel of nongovernment scientists and scholars who have come together to present a comprehensive, authoritative, and realistic assessment of the science and economics of global warming. Because it is not a government agency, and because its members are not predisposed to believe climate change is caused by human greenhouse gas emissions, NIPCC is able to offer an independent “second opinion” of the evidence reviewed – or not reviewed – by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) on the issue of global warming.


Looks like they've just released another report too... here's the conclusion:
Spoiler:
Conclusion

Climate Change Reconsidered II: Biological Impacts
describes thousands of peer-reviewed scientific
journal articles that do not support, and often flatly
contradict, IPCC’s pessimistic narrative of “death,
injury, and disrupted livelihoods.” The impact of
rising temperatures and higher atmospheric CO2
levels in the twentieth and early twenty-first centuries
has not been anything like what IPCC would have us
believe, and its forecasts differ wildly from those
sound science would suggest.

Why is this research and perspective missing
from IPCC’s reports? NIPCC has been publishing
volumes containing this research for five years—long
enough, one would think, for the authors of IPCC’s
reports to have taken notice, if only to disagree. But
the drafts of the Working Group II contribution to
IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report suggest otherwise.
Either IPCC’s authors purposely ignore this research
because it runs counter to their thesis that any human
impact on climate must be bad and therefore stopped
at any cost, or they are inept and have failed to
conduct a proper and full scientific investigation of
the pertinent literature. Either way, IPCC is
misleading the scientific community, policymakers,
and the general public. Because the stakes are high,
this is a grave disservice.

How CO2 enrichment has affected global food
production and biospheric productivity is a matter of
fact, not opinion. The evidence is overwhelming that
it has and will continue to help plants thrive, leading
to greater biodiversity, shrinking deserts, expanded
habitat for wildlife, and more food for a growing
human population. In sharp contrast to IPCC’s
pessimistic forecast of declining food production,
NIPCC’s authors say “a future warming of the climate
coupled with rising atmospheric CO2 levels will boost
global agricultural production and help meet the food
needs of the planet’s growing population.” They find
“the positive direct effects of CO2 on crop yields tend
to overcome any negative effects associated with
changed weather conditions.”

Journalists, policymakers, and the interested
public should demand to know why IPCC either hides
or is silent about these truths.

They've included a feth ton of references and peer-reviewed articles in these reports if you want to take the next step and review it.

The point being, there are many legitimate scientific critics of the IPCC that should provide at least a red-flag for you... and maybe, not just take the UN/Government's study as gospel.

All this says to me, really, is that we really don't KNOW how climate works and what is, if any, the human impact. That doesn't mean we should stop researching this, nor does it mean we shouldn't advocate for alternative/clean energy sources... but, it does mean that we should be very wary of any bureaucrats asking for money in the name of "Climate Change™".


I'm not taking their exact word, I'm taking the opinion of the vast majority of climate scientists. I have read papers from both sides and the denires/skeptics are both in the majority and proven wrong repetedly. Despite what you say, 97% seems like a pretty good consensus. I do admit that I could be wrong, I just don't see any downside for pushing for climate friendly legislation. Green jobs, cleaner air, less pollution, ect. If I'm right and we do nothing however, now that is bad.
Spoiler:

Look at the consenting vs. disenting [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_opinion_on_climate_change

Also, look at this http://www.climatechange2013.org/images/report/WG1AR5_ALL_FINAL.pdf
And this http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus
http://theconsensusproject.com/
http://www.skepticalscience.com/settled-science-humans-are-raising-co2-levels.html

Homosexuality is the #1 cause of gay marriage.
 kronk wrote:
Every pizza is a personal sized pizza if you try hard enough and believe in yourself.
 sebster wrote:
Yes, indeed. What a terrible piece of cultural imperialism it is for me to say that a country shouldn't murder its own citizens
 BaronIveagh wrote:
Basically they went from a carrot and stick to a smaller carrot and flanged mace.
 
   
 
Forum Index » Off-Topic Forum
Go to: