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I fear that those not committed to pledge until this is 'headed in the right direction' are also those who would pull out at the least sign of something shinier

I'm disappointed this is not doing better, but fiddling with it too much at this stage may do more harm than good (a fair number will be in for multipart plastic, rather than resin/metal)

If you look at older KS projects they built a lot more slowly so I think there is still a decent chance this will fund as long as you keep building backers and/or cash each day,

Only if there is a period when folk start pulling out would I think of major changes/cancelation especially as you've invested considerable time and effort (and I suspect cash) in giving out the plastic/multipart message for this KS

 Kaine Larson wrote:
I have had messages from people saying they are not pledging until they can see that its heading in the right direction! I think if we have a mini surge it might attract a few others to pledge as well.

I think one of the tough things is what's being offered as the pledges. Not many people really need to have more than 70-100 on the miniatures, which cuts into the initial pledge potential. Then the 2 current buying add-ons are rather costly for models that are in KS.

It may be pertinent to produce a number of the larger models in a resin material to set up company/model representation and to establish good reputation. If it is cheaper, it may even allow for a wider range of models such as lizards to garner more interest, and then at a later date return to plastics.

I hope it succeeds (I put in for the KS figure, as I think it's great), but I do feel 80k is a huge ask. We'll see. I do hope that even if it doesn't do the amount some of the figures will be released, as they are great.

I'm in for way more than I can realistically afford right now - not to mention more than I'd sensibly buy at retail. If the project funds, I'd be able to lower my pledge, but I do agree that the project might be a lot better off as a range of resin and metal figures to get the company up and running. Once you're an actual company with products at retail, I think, cautious people would be much more likely to dip their toes in for a few figures or a warband.

It's a shame to see that Kickstarter has now entered this really weird state of affairs where people aren't interested in pledging unless the project has already funded or is clearly going to fund.

Really misses the entire point of what the site is supposed to be.

I have high hopes for this one still, a slow/steady crawl to £50k is likely followed by a final surge in the last few days to fund it.

I'm interested in some of the other races that have been teased in the artwork, such as the forthcoming Lizardfolk, but Goblins and Zombies have been done to death and I have made plenty of these staple bad guys over the course of my hobby so no interest in pledging solely for them, especially in large amounts that this kickstarter excels at.

The add on models like Bugbears are different and I'm intrigued especially as they're resin, however my strange resin monster love can currently be scratched by Mierce kickstarter.

 scarletsquig wrote:
It's a shame to see that Kickstarter has now entered this really weird state of affairs where people aren't interested in pledging unless the project has already funded or is clearly going to fund.
Really misses the entire point of what the site is supposed to be.

That's what happens when the amount needed to fund is monumentally huge. £80,000 is US$130,000. A pretty massive amount for a startup that no-one has ever heard of before with a track record of producing exactly zero. Let's not forget Gates of Antares, which also had a huge goal - over three times this one, yes, but also little to show for it, besides a creative team that pretty much created the reason this site exists (Priestly+Naismith) - so a pretty significant track record there.

Let's not get into the whole "what kickstarter is for" thing again. That whole line of discussion is worse than tiresome at this stage. This project is a pretty big stretch, regardless of how much you or I or anyone else want some nice looking plastic zombies and goblins.

I'll keep plugging away at mentioning this.

I talked with the hobby shop guys this weekend. Maybe they'll check it out.

I find it so ironic that their game department is pretty clueless about all the Kickstarters occuring, yet keep on stocking the ones that do well.

Either someone is just shining me on there, or their distributor pays a lot closer attention to what goes on in KS land.

 scarletsquig wrote:
I have high hopes for this one still, a slow/steady crawl to £50k is likely followed by a final surge in the last few days to fund it.

Four backers yesterday. Five the day before. Average for the four days after the initial one is a little over £600.

Currently it's on a slow/steady crawl to £25k.


Quite frankly, £25k isn't bad if you want to put out some nice-looking metal or resin gobbos and zombies.

It feels like we're just waiting for the cancellation announcement and then hopefully they'll be back with a new campaign with adjusted goals...

Hello guys...

It has been slow and I think a lot of the problems could have been solved from the start if I had a bit more Kickstarter experience. This has been an awesome learning curve and we are already discussing re release if the project doesn't fund. I have a couple of additional marketing commitments that have to go through as they are paid for and I will see how they go before there is any talk of cancelling. The plan will be to get some more renders completed, spend more time on the rules and to come back with a low target goal... maybe 5-8k with miniatures in metal and resin and lots of accessible stetchgoals. I have discovered that despite thinking the project had good coverage, it really had not. When I launched the KS the rest of the range was hidden away as stetchgoals and nobody knew about them. Those that have seen the whole project love it. Those who have not are less enthusiastic. Agai, this is all information that comes with experience. I will get it right the next time... if it comes to that.

We will still have the plastic figures available but only as a top end stretchgoal as most people seem to find the aesthetic great but they are not so concerned about the plastics. I am sure this will divide our pledgers but we have spent too much time and money, not to mention love and care on this range and we want to help it to fund. If that means no plastics for the short term, it means no plastics. However, plastic miniatures is something we are aiming for!

I have been pleased by the response from so many people and the fact that no one has yet called me an idiot, or stupid for doing what I have done. Almost all the feedback has been hugely positive and I am grateful for that. Lets see what happens over the next few week or two and maybe we can attract some more interest.

Thanks

It is a shame this didn't take off like it honestly should have done given the quality of the product so far, but it's good to see you haven't been deterred.

I think if this does fall through then another campaign focusing on metal/resin minis for Underkeep would still do well. The success of games like Infinity and early Malifaux prove that people will be happy with non-plastic minis for a skirmish game, especially if they're good quality. Build up with cheaper to produce stuff and lower/frequent Stretch Goals and you'll likely find you get closer to the higher goals faster, and with any luck will have enough to get the game off the ground even without plastic.

Best of luck either way.

It seems like you listened to too much advice and tried to please everyone, but ended up not completely pleasing anyone. I wish you luck with the eventual relaunch, i have to say that the concept for the game is very intriguing!

Heck, I bet you could run a small kickstarter for just that bugbear and you'd have that sucker funded in no time at all.

The plan will probably be to have a couple of single figure pledges and then have a faction pledge which for the Goblins would be something like 6 Goblins, Bugbear Ironshield, Goblin Skulk and a Goblin Shaman and for the Zombies it will be a Necromancer, 6 Zombie Gravewalkers, Flesh Golem and probably a Wight Lord. There would be larger pledges too including a discounted starter set with a load of dice and that thrown in too.

Would that be better?

At the end of the day the aesthetics and details of the models are fantastic, and even with this snag in the funding, we want this company and you to succeed with eventually releasing them, because damn those mini's are nice.

I think that trying to start with plastics was tough. The upfront cost is high, and the fact that you're not an already established company probably is what worked to the project detriment.

Personally, I would love to see the troops and smaller, thinner models end up being plastic. As a Necron player, the thin parts such as ankles and arms on my resin (not finecast ) characters are rather fragile, as are several of the parts of the DKoK mini's a friend of mine has, and drops from the table have broken pieces. The plastic limbs of my other necrons have a much better survival rate from drops, and I've really come to prefer plastic for thinner models.

That's what had initially caught my eye, was the nicely detailed plastic mini's, and in particular the troops. I really liked the fact that the smaller, thinner pieces would have a bit more strength to the resin counterparts.


However, with larger models, such as the bugbears, the bigger zombies, and the potential lizard folk, the thinker resin parts have much more strength, and plastic isn't as important (in my opinion, ymmv). As I said before, perhaps doing several of the larger miniatures in resin, and using those as a way to jumpstart the company's reputation and funds. Especially since several of the miniatures aren't really produced anywhere else.

 Kaine Larson wrote:
The plan will probably be to have a couple of single figure pledges and then have a faction pledge which for the Goblins would be something like 6 Goblins, Bugbear Ironshield, Goblin Skulk and a Goblin Shaman and for the Zombies it will be a Necromancer, 6 Zombie Gravewalkers, Flesh Golem and probably a Wight Lord. There would be larger pledges too including a discounted starter set with a load of dice and that thrown in too.

Would that be better?

I would love to get the goblin bunch. it would suit me far better than getting lots of goblin or zombies.

Don't forget the hobgoblins though, if we're going to have the rainbow goblin coalition!

Equal opportunity goblinoids!

We are an equal opportunity goblin employer...

I think you'd have been better off sticking with the goblins to start with. Less sprues = lower funding goal.

Then you can focus add ons and stretch goals for fleshing out a goblin army with resin/metal models.

You could do the same for the undead too. But I think there'd be more demand for affordable plastic goblins, since others make some decent undead already.

 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
Heck, I bet you could run a small kickstarter for just that bugbear and you'd have that sucker funded in no time at all.

+1. A campaign for some of the big beasts shown here would probably do very well indeed. Maybe come back to the plastic production and multipart sprues at a later date?

Add my vote to the 'big beasties' group - I know I'd be in for a few of 'em!

Being realistic, I think drawing large funding for plastics is better off done once Minion has established themselves as a company that can and does produce items with a track record of successful production (even if it's entirely resin or metal). That would also allow the game itself to get some traction which would then (hopefully) get more interest in the plastics.

I'd also look at some (official) way of scaling-up your game. While I'm not one who ties figures to rules, that's clearly a big thing for many people, so if you design your game in a SAGA-ish way but with the ability to scale up to even 100 models a side (including the bugbears and leaders and such - not 50 goblins + 2 bugbears) then it could increase demand for the larger pledges, which in turn would add more funds.

Also, you might want to consider a lower finding target with just the undead or the goblins to start with, and the second race being a stretch goal - and if it's not hit, fine - just produce one sprue at a time.

I have just posted this on the Kickstarter Page:

"Hello pledgers,

Thank you so much for putting faith in Minion Miniatures and helping us raise over £10k for this Kickstarter. The truth is, we may have bitten off more than we could chew in regard to the amount needed to fund and I realise, as a new start company, this was extremely ambitious. However, I have learned so much over the last week and I have been thoroughly amazed at the support and constructive comments made by you all.

I think the best thing for us to do as a company is launch a much smaller Kickstarter to launch the brand. I think we have a unique take on the fantasy genre and I would like to offer a few of our models to you guys in the short term before coming back with a bigger Kickstarter in the new year. Our next Kickstarter is going to be for our two fully rendered big beasties; the Flesh Golem and the Bugbear Ironshield. We are also going to add the Goblin Skulk into the mix as well.

The stretch goals will quite simply be addons for both models, different head choices, different, weapon choices or shield choices for the Ironshield. The funding goal will likely be around the £2k mark with stretch goals being implemented every £500-£1000. This will enable us to fund some of the additional renders and models for the full Underdeep Kickstarter in February 2015.

The other good news is the turnaround time. We would anticipate no more than a three month wait for the models which will show you that we mean business and that we can delivery a quality product on time! So don't fret! Minion Miniatures will be back very soon!

Whats more I would like all of you who think you will participate in our next KS to send me your details as you guys will be privileged owners of a unique head for the Bugbear Ironshield and the Flesh Golem! So don't cancel your pledge just yet as I would like to get your details before I close this Kickstarter. We are likely to relaunch the Kickstarter within a couple of weeks so please keep your eyes peeled. We will be posting on Facebook and advertising this new campaign. Once again, thank you for your support. It means a lot to us that you have faith in our creations and I am sure we will be seeing you again soon!"

So the new Kickstarter will start in a couple of week. Please keep an eye out for it. We will use all the funds to finance the return of Underdeep in the early new year of 2015.

Thanks for all your help and support guys and I will continue to post updates on our products!

Good news, even though the KS will be cancelled. I think you will benefit more of this new direction.

I agree! Fulfilling that small campaign quickly will put you in much better footing for a bigger one next year. For that future one, taking a page from other campaigns, start with a minimum goal for one sprue, tease the other things you'd like to add, and just include them as stretch goals.

I was only in for a pound here but should have the funds for a bugbear with the relaunch in a few weeks. So, this works out well for me, and I'm excited to see you deliver on these initial resin models and build the brand!

Thanks guys... I will post some more news soon. But the likely set up for the new KS will be as follow. Your views would be very much appreciated.

TARGET: £2000

Thank You £1

Goblin Skulk in Resin £8

Brute (either the Flesh Golem or Ironshield) £18.

Double Trouble (Two Brutes) £32

Triple Threat (3xBrute) £48

Mega Bundle (4xBrutes) plus all stretch goals FREE. EB x 100 £65.

The Stretchgoals will be a mix of alternative heads, weapons, shoulders and shields (for the Ironshield). ALL MODELS IN HIGH QUALITY RESIN. Stretchgoals will be available every £500-750.

We may even throw the Zombie Hulk in as a stretch goal.

I look forward to hearing your comments...

That seems reasonable and I'll be in for a bugbear at least

(make sure the extras you throw in don't end up pushing your costs too high)

and take a careful look at your shipping costs, once you move to resin especially a bubble wrap envelope is not really good enough to protect things in transit so you'll need boxes which always cost more than you think

A few thoughts: If pledging for 2 or 3 of a model, would you vary the heads/shields (not giving extra, just vary)?

I think 100 EBs at a single level may be too much (see backer numbers from current campaign). You can always increase them or add a "second bird" pledge level later.

Very happy to see the Ironshield back at 18 pounds!! I'll definitely be pledging for one, maybe two.

Agreed about not going crazy on stretches- let the campaign do what it's meant to (get your company name out there, raise funds for more development of Underdeep). But that said, a way to get alternate parts at a lower level would be welcome- either by your just varying them on multiples, or offering an add-on pack of parts, whatever makes more financial sense for you.

As the stretch goals open you can choose any combination of head, shield and weapon you want!