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hello all,

I am playing a game where the rules let me pick any psychic powers I like, as long as it is available to my army. I am planning on having a skyshield landing pad with 10 joakeros on top with coteaz level 2 psyker and an inquisitor with a conversion beamer and level 1 psyker in the squad. I am planning on coteaz picking divnation and perfect timing so him and the squad re roll hits and ignore cover and the inquisitor to pick invisibility from telepathy so him and the unit has stealth and shrouded.

This would mean my 10 joakero lascannons can re roll to hit and ignore cover and my joakeros have a 4++ from the sky shield and a 2+ cover save from the sky shield and stealth/shrouded.

What do you guys think?

Its an expensive and weak death star.

Fragile wrote:
Its an expensive and weak death star.

Why weak?

Even with a 2+ cover save and 4++, they are still a bunch of t3 immobile models. Sure, they will lay waste to near anything they shoot at, and with all those heavy flamers no assault will stick, but T3 is still T3. You will fail saves sooner or later even with 2+ saves. If invisibility fails/opponent goes first you are in trouble, or any ignore cover shooting with any weight. Being able to pick your powers makes it viable, but otherwise you would be screwed.

This unit plus skyshield is looking at 575+ points depending on what you give your inquisitor. For that cost, most armies can dump enough mid/high strength fire into them to kill several chimps a turn. 12 models on the skyshield are asking for large blast and template weapons.

Do it cheaper and run a psyocculum inquisitor with a jokaero/crusader unit.

Not going to be nearly as good in durability or damage output....but its much cheaper and depending on the matchup can be dirty as well.

This is a just for funsies tactic.



Everyone knows that Duct just plays for funsies...

 Dr. Serling wrote:
Even with a 2+ cover save and 4++, they are still a bunch of t3 immobile models. Sure, they will lay waste to near anything they shoot at, and with all those heavy flamers no assault will stick, but T3 is still T3. You will fail saves sooner or later even with 2+ saves. If invisibility fails/opponent goes first you are in trouble, or any ignore cover shooting with any weight. Being able to pick your powers makes it viable, but otherwise you would be screwed.

This unit plus skyshield is looking at 575+ points depending on what you give your inquisitor. For that cost, most armies can dump enough mid/high strength fire into them to kill several chimps a turn. 12 models on the skyshield are asking for large blast and template weapons.

The skyshield is very wide so I wouldn't have to bunch up my models.

the squad is 10 joakeros- 350, coteaz- 100- level 1 psyker with conversion beamer inquisitor- 100, 550points in total but that would be 10 lascannons, 1 conversion beamer and d6 str 4 shots from coteaz, all re roll to hit and all ignore cover.

If I don't go first there is still a 50% chance of night fighting to give me a 2+ cover save on the first turn and with coteaz I have a 33% chance to steal the iniative to go first.

Because the joakeros have a 48 inch range they will be right at the back of my deployment out of range of mass fire. I know t3 sucks but a 2+ cover and a 4++ will probably stop people firing expensive large blasts at them which will be very eneffecftive.

And then Thunderfire Cannon.

champagne_socialist wrote:

 Dr. Serling wrote:
Even with a 2+ cover save and 4++, they are still a bunch of t3 immobile models. Sure, they will lay waste to near anything they shoot at, and with all those heavy flamers no assault will stick, but T3 is still T3. You will fail saves sooner or later even with 2+ saves. If invisibility fails/opponent goes first you are in trouble, or any ignore cover shooting with any weight. Being able to pick your powers makes it viable, but otherwise you would be screwed.

This unit plus skyshield is looking at 575+ points depending on what you give your inquisitor. For that cost, most armies can dump enough mid/high strength fire into them to kill several chimps a turn. 12 models on the skyshield are asking for large blast and template weapons.

The skyshield is very wide so I wouldn't have to bunch up my models.

the squad is 10 joakeros- 350, coteaz- 100- level 1 psyker with conversion beamer inquisitor- 100, 550points in total but that would be 10 lascannons, 1 conversion beamer and d6 str 4 shots from coteaz, all re roll to hit and all ignore cover.

If I don't go first there is still a 50% chance of night fighting to give me a 2+ cover save on the first turn and with coteaz I have a 33% chance to steal the iniative to go first.

Because the joakeros have a 48 inch range they will be right at the back of my deployment out of range of mass fire. I know t3 sucks but a 2+ cover and a 4++ will probably stop people firing expensive large blasts at them which will be very eneffecftive.

Spreading out on a pad usually means not having line of sight due to the height as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
And then Thunderfire Cannon.

Or Nightspinner...or Swooping Hawks...or Tau...or Wyvern.



Ugh...Wyvern.

The problem is that it's just not that hard to put wounds into a T3 unit. Sure 2+/4++ is nice against low RoF big guns, but with pick your own powers there's nothing stopping your opponent from using Gate of Infinity to put a guardsman blob in your face and fire 50-100 twin linked las gun shots at you from just far enough away that you'd have a hard time flaming them. (Ok, so he needs a second unit to prevent the scatter.)

Mavnas wrote:
The problem is that it's just not that hard to put wounds into a T3 unit. Sure 2+/4++ is nice against low RoF big guns, but with pick your own powers there's nothing stopping your opponent from using Gate of Infinity to put a guardsman blob in your face and fire 50-100 twin linked las gun shots at you from just far enough away that you'd have a hard time flaming them. (Ok, so he needs a second unit to prevent the scatter.)

Or the opponent also picking perfect timing.

Actually, I'm over complicating things. A single ml2 divination psyker could give his unit ignore cover then force you to reroll saves. Suddenly you've got the life expectancy of a guardsman.

Mavnas wrote:
The problem is that it's just not that hard to put wounds into a T3 unit. Sure 2+/4++ is nice against low RoF big guns, but with pick your own powers there's nothing stopping your opponent from using Gate of Infinity to put a guardsman blob in your face and fire 50-100 twin linked las gun shots at you from just far enough away that you'd have a hard time flaming them. (Ok, so he needs a second unit to prevent the scatter.)

I'm not aware of that power but coteaz and his squad can shoot at anything coming in from reserve, does it make them arrive from reserve.

The game is 1850 points and I just found out GK cannot take telepathy psychic powers so I may have to ally in a SM DA librarian and a scout squad to get telepathy.

The idea is that because I am so far back bolt guns, lasguns etc will be out of range and only big guns will be in range, which i will have a 2+ cover save against.

Also my joakeros cant see over the sides of the skyshield or the aegis defence line etc, they are too small. In a tournament what would be the ruling? The skyshield has slits in its walls does that mean any unit no matter its height can shoot?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:
Actually, I'm over complicating things. A single ml2 divination psyker could give his unit ignore cover then force you to reroll saves. Suddenly you've got the life expectancy of a guardsman.

Well it depends what unit he is attached to as I will be 48 inches away.

If you can't see over, you can't shoot over. This has been the common theme with swarms and quad guns.

Unless you unfurl...ha.

 ductvader wrote:
If you can't see over, you can't shoot over. This has been the common theme with swarms and quad guns.

Unless you unfurl...ha.

It has slits in the walls what does that do? Should I convert my skyshield?

In friendly games my opponent would let me shoot even if I was smaller (if he didn't I would refuse to play him) but in a tournament people will do anything to get an advantage.

Use your psyker to get Forewarning.

If they're tall enough to see through the slits...they can shoot...and be shot.

I was originally referring to the fact that most models will be below you and therfore spreading out would lead to less models having line of sight because they can't see at that downward angle.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Use your psyker to get Forewarning.

It would still be a bad idea, but that gets you to square 1 at least.

 ductvader wrote:
If they're tall enough to see through the slits...they can shoot...and be shot.

I was originally referring to the fact that most models will be below you and therfore spreading out would lead to less models having line of sight because they can't see at that downward angle.

I will convert so the slits are wider.

Yeh there is an angle that you can't see if you are on the skypad but the great thing about joakero's is they all have heavy flamers so I would just move my joakeros off the skyshield and have 10 heavy flamers burn those models hahah

I would watch that conversion as it could definitely be seen as modeling for advantage.

champagne_socialist wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
The problem is that it's just not that hard to put wounds into a T3 unit. Sure 2+/4++ is nice against low RoF big guns, but with pick your own powers there's nothing stopping your opponent from using Gate of Infinity to put a guardsman blob in your face and fire 50-100 twin linked las gun shots at you from just far enough away that you'd have a hard time flaming them. (Ok, so he needs a second unit to prevent the scatter.)

I'm not aware of that power but coteaz and his squad can shoot at anything coming in from reserve, does it make them arrive from reserve.

The game is 1850 points and I just found out GK cannot take telepathy psychic powers so I may have to ally in a SM DA librarian and a scout squad to get telepathy.

The idea is that because I am so far back bolt guns, lasguns etc will be out of range and only big guns will be in range, which i will have a 2+ cover save against.

Also my joakeros cant see over the sides of the skyshield or the aegis defence line etc, they are too small. In a tournament what would be the ruling? The skyshield has slits in its walls does that mean any unit no matter its height can shoot?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:
Actually, I'm over complicating things. A single ml2 divination psyker could give his unit ignore cover then force you to reroll saves. Suddenly you've got the life expectancy of a guardsman.

Well it depends what unit he is attached to as I will be 48 inches away.

Only if Coteaz is within 12" of where they arrive. They can be 12" from other models in your unit and still get their 2 shots or they can get the second shot from FRFSRF, etc.

How do you plan on staying 48" away with models that can't move?

 ductvader wrote:
I would watch that conversion as it could definitely be seen as modeling for advantage.

What else am I meant to do? Not even just with joakero's but I am building a squat henchmen army and none of them can see over the top either....


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:

champagne_socialist wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
The problem is that it's just not that hard to put wounds into a T3 unit. Sure 2+/4++ is nice against low RoF big guns, but with pick your own powers there's nothing stopping your opponent from using Gate of Infinity to put a guardsman blob in your face and fire 50-100 twin linked las gun shots at you from just far enough away that you'd have a hard time flaming them. (Ok, so he needs a second unit to prevent the scatter.)

I'm not aware of that power but coteaz and his squad can shoot at anything coming in from reserve, does it make them arrive from reserve.

The game is 1850 points and I just found out GK cannot take telepathy psychic powers so I may have to ally in a SM DA librarian and a scout squad to get telepathy.

The idea is that because I am so far back bolt guns, lasguns etc will be out of range and only big guns will be in range, which i will have a 2+ cover save against.

Also my joakeros cant see over the sides of the skyshield or the aegis defence line etc, they are too small. In a tournament what would be the ruling? The skyshield has slits in its walls does that mean any unit no matter its height can shoot?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mavnas wrote:
Actually, I'm over complicating things. A single ml2 divination psyker could give his unit ignore cover then force you to reroll saves. Suddenly you've got the life expectancy of a guardsman.

Well it depends what unit he is attached to as I will be 48 inches away.

Only if Coteaz is within 12" of where they arrive. They can be 12" from other models in your unit and still get their 2 shots or they can get the second shot from FRFSRF, etc.

How do you plan on staying 48" away with models that can't move?

I'm not going to have a virtual game with you as it is rather pointless.

champagne_socialist wrote:


I'm not going to have a virtual game with you as it is rather pointless.

So it begins.

I'm not entirely sure what this thread is about then. You asked for opinions on an expensive unit with respectable firepower but several easily exploitable weaknesses.

Mavnas wrote:
I'm not entirely sure what this thread is about then. You asked for opinions on an expensive unit with respectable firepower but several easily exploitable weaknesses.

The discussion about mass of fire/lack of toughness/ not being able to see over the skyshield etc is good points. talking about how expensive the unit is is also a good discussion.

Telling me that you will take a 50 man blog IG unit and deep strike next to me and shoot me is not what I am looking for. That is like a virtual battle which is pointless. It is a bit like someone saying they could take a dreadknight with 2 heavy flamers, hide out of LOS 1st turn and then shunt on top of the skyshield and flamer all of the joakeros.

Which is also something that could happen.

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Which is also something that could happen.

If Dreadknights could take two of them...or heavy flamers at all.

 ductvader wrote:

If Dreadknights could take two of them...or heavy flamers at all.

Two dreadknights each take a heavy incinerator. Str6 AP4 12'' Torrent. Half of the Jokaeros die at least.

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

If Dreadknights could take two of them...or heavy flamers at all.

Two dreadknights each take a heavy incinerator. Str6 AP4 12'' Torrent. Half of the Jokaeros die at least.

Agreed, a Dreadknight can take a heavy incinerator. (I own 4 DKs)

 ductvader wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:
Which is also something that could happen.

If Dreadknights could take two of them...or heavy flamers at all.

a heavy incenerator I mean.

 ductvader wrote:

 obsidiankatana wrote:

 ductvader wrote:

If Dreadknights could take two of them...or heavy flamers at all.

Two dreadknights each take a heavy incinerator. Str6 AP4 12'' Torrent. Half of the Jokaeros die at least.

Agreed, a Dreadknight can take a heavy incinerator. (I own 4 DKs)

Semantics of my post then. I don't put much effort into answering this particular OP. A glance at his post history will tell you why.