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 Scipio Africanus wrote:
How do crons pack anti-tank? They lack anything above s7 and mostly rely on tesla and rending to do hull points.

Most people are under the assumption that 10 man warrior squads somehow eat through vehicles with glances,,,

 Tenzilla wrote:
Playing 1500 with 4 knights in a pick up game, is being a dick.

Agreeing to play against a 4 Knight army in a pick up game, then complaining that the player who brought them is somehow doing something wrong is silly. You don't have to play against Imperial Knight players if you don't want too. That being said, I'd play against 4 Knights any day of the week. Either the player using them is doing it just to field the models and have fun doing so, which is great. Or the player using them somehow thinks he's got an uber powerful unstoppable killing force, and its great to show these playes the error in their logic.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
How do crons pack anti-tank? They lack anything above s7 and mostly rely on tesla and rending to do hull points.

Usually its the Gauss weapons that chew off hull points. Even if a Cron player brings a decent amount of Wraiths, Barges and Nightscythes, they can still pack in a lot of warriors with Gauss guns. Heavy Destroyers, Crypteks, Stalkers and the like can help out with longer range AT.

I have faced one with DA ravenwing allies(other way around) by surprise with my normal "all comers" DE list. Results were less than stellar. He had a tech marine on a bike behind it granting it a 4++ on all facings. I concentrated my splinter at his guys but fired all AT at the Knight and inflicted a total of two hull points and I had a ravager,, reaper, and blasters galore. It wasn't until my wyche squad hit it and blew both it and everything around it up that it finally went down, killed them in the process. I only field one wyche squad so more than one knight would have hurt and it was easily swatting down a squad or a vehicle a turn on its own. I would not have been able to handle another one.

My general use 30k army would be able to take one, but that's concentrating fire, and losing a unit in my 30k army would hurt far more than losing a DE squad a turn. My assault marines could do it, but I would be losing a 300+ point squad to do it. Orbital assault list would take one down pretty easy but wouldn't get a chance at a second one.

Any army that has to rely on assault for it essentially is a losing proposition as it takes down however many squads a turn as you take to get an assault unit into combat with it plus the assaulting squad, provided it doesn't kill them first. So essentially your opponent fielding a knight forces these type armies to field units which in 6th(maybe 7th) are very under par for dealing with anyone else. Or you field aircraft(which I do as well) but it takes more than one pass from any normal single aircraft if not very lucky. A Lightning with the AT missiles, or a FireRaptor might get lucky at a single go.

So again, facing more than one, with no opportunity to prep for it, is douchebaggery. A list that can fairly take on multiple knights is not a standard take all comers list.

 herpguy wrote:

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
How do crons pack anti-tank? They lack anything above s7 and mostly rely on tesla and rending to do hull points.

Most people are under the assumption that 10 man warrior squads somehow eat through vehicles with glances,,,

Yeah, that's the biggest misconception that people have about gauss; that's it's super deadly against vehicles. It really isn't.
All what it does is allow basic necron weapons to hurt vehicles. It is not a replacement for dedicated anti-tank.

Gauss auto glancing on 6s

Necrons can use a cryptek with the Harbinger of the Storm upgrade. His weapon becomes a 12" range haywire gun with 4 shots. A couple of these could definitely ruin a knights day.

4 knights if you tailor against them are going to be easy. If you field just whatever normal army, you might get stomped.

The problem is either way the game should be pretty one-sided.

Col dash you were cheated if he said his techmarine can give 4++ on more than one facing.

Mr. bigglesworth wrote:
Col dash you were cheated if he said his techmarine can give 4++ on more than one facing.

Power field generator.

Its a special DA only item tech marines get that give everything a few inches(not sure on the exact range) around them(friend and foe) a 4++ save from shooting and in hand to hand. Stick him on a bike and follow the Knight around, attempting to repair if need be.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
How do crons pack anti-tank? They lack anything above s7 and mostly rely on tesla and rending to do hull points.

Gauss weapons glance on a 6, and the bulk of their weapons are Gauss.

SJ

A wave serpent full of Fire Dragons.

Disembark the unit so that the straddle 2 facings, battle focus them into the facing not chosen for the invuln.

If you know what you're doing with the Knights, you won't have many friends, and they can stomp a lot of armies.

My preference is the Errant version, because that melta-cannon will just straight-up wreck vehicles. If you're using four Knights, one with a battlecannon isn't bad, so you can pound squads of Marines or other 3+ armor units.

Just deploy on the edge of your deployment zone, walk forward, and focus fire on the biggest threats (Dev Squads, tanks with anti-armor guns, etc.). Assault as you can. If you're advancing, then any Knight that goes down will have a decent chance to scatter into the middle of the opposing army and cause some more damage.

I just use one Knight, and people are hating on it bad. But I've seen it just wreck armies by itself. Even in the last game I played (yesterday), it rolled horrible for its gun, my opponents drove up to it with a bunch of melta-weapons and fired all kinds of stuff at it, it lost all its HP, but it stumbled forward right between a Land Raider Crusade full of Death Company and an Immolator packed with SoB. Vaporized both and took out a few more models as well, more than made up its points.

How did it vaporize both? The D portion of its Apocalyptic Blast is only 5" across, and even with the vehicles exploding, the Sisters have 3+ saves.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:
How did it vaporize both? The D portion of its Apocalyptic Blast is only 5" across, and even with the vehicles exploding, the Sisters have 3+ saves.

SJ

The vehicles were parked close to each other as the two players formed a ring of weaponry in front of the Knight to hit it with as many weapons as possible, especially multi-meltas on the vehicles at melta range. The Knight's death scatter landed it literally right between the noses of the two vehicles. It was an insanely lucky scatter... followed by insane bad luck for the people inside.

Basically, the Knight just hates that one particular Land Raider.

I still find it funny that our opponents' Knight scattered backward instead of forward and ended up landing in the middle of a couple of their units. But it was a weedy Paladin that wasn't constantly running into the thick of things. Either that, or the dice really, really liked us.

 Scipio Africanus wrote:
How do crons pack anti-tank? They lack anything above s7 and mostly rely on tesla and rending to do hull points.

Necron weapons with more than S7:

Monolith particle whips

Heat rays (two shot multimeltas)

Destruteks (S8 lance)

Heavy gauss cannon (S9 AP2)

Gauss exterminator (two shot longer ranged version of the above)

Death rays (S10 AP1)

Pylon heat cannon (S10 AP1 Armorbane Blast)

Smashing monstrous creatures, of which quite a few can be fielded.

Transcendant C'tan

Superheavy Pylons

Night shroud bombers (S10 AP1 Blinding Large blast).

Warscythes are also hugely dangerous to vehicles.

My Stompa would happily engage 2 Knights, 4 though? That might be tough. Would need to borrow another Stompa. So, yeah, I'd play that list no probs.

 PipeAlley wrote:
My Stompa would happily engage 2 Knights, 4 though? That might be tough. Would need to borrow another Stompa. So, yeah, I'd play that list no probs.

4 Knights would give your stompas a run for their money and that's no joke, mainly because their at I4 and your I2 or I1.

 Arbiter wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
My Stompa would happily engage 2 Knights, 4 though? That might be tough. Would need to borrow another Stompa. So, yeah, I'd play that list no probs.

4 Knights would give your stompas a run for their money and that's no joke, mainly because their at I4 and your I2 or I1.

The Stompas would be shooting for at least 2 turns, and repairing an average of 5 HP's per turn.

Well from the shooting yes, from CC you would either be dead, or have no CC from the knights being dead.

 ErikSetzer wrote:
My preference is the Errant version, because that melta-cannon will just straight-up wreck vehicles. If you're using four Knights, one with a battlecannon isn't bad, so you can pound squads of Marines or other 3+ armor units.

Yeah, that knight has nearly a 50% chance to blow up an incoming Rhino each turn! (And not that much worse chance against a Land Raider.) I feel like the trick to knights is to use multiple cheap units against them. If your opponent has a 200-300 point clump of things for you to drop a large blast on, they will certainly be sad.

Same thing with melee. A plain tactical squad should be able to keep it busy for a bit. It's only going to kill about 2 models with the Str D attacks and the stomps are mostly AP4. (Of course, if you put a blob in combat with it, those stomps are going to cover a lot more models.)

 PipeAlley wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
My Stompa would happily engage 2 Knights, 4 though? That might be tough. Would need to borrow another Stompa. So, yeah, I'd play that list no probs.

4 Knights would give your stompas a run for their money and that's no joke, mainly because their at I4 and your I2 or I1.

The Stompas would be shooting for at least 2 turns, and repairing an average of 5 HP's per turn.

Yeah, the Stompa's potential five S8 missiles, scads of S7 gatling shots, and S10 Ordnance cannon all give it a nice chance to hurt Knights before the Knights can engage in combat.

If they do end up engaging, there goes that part of the table... Assuming the Knight blows up the Stompa, there's a good chance the Stompa still explodes close enough to the Knight to wreck it, which will cause it to stumble somewhere and explode as well. Multiple Knights? That's just multiple explosions.

It'd be like watching a 2nd edition match with exploding ammo and flipping tanks all over again...

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:

 PipeAlley wrote:
My Stompa would happily engage 2 Knights, 4 though? That might be tough. Would need to borrow another Stompa. So, yeah, I'd play that list no probs.

4 Knights would give your stompas a run for their money and that's no joke, mainly because their at I4 and your I2 or I1.

The Stompas would be shooting for at least 2 turns, and repairing an average of 5 HP's per turn.

Yeah, the Stompa's potential five S8 missiles, scads of S7 gatling shots, and S10 Ordnance cannon all give it a nice chance to hurt Knights before the Knights can engage in combat.

If they do end up engaging, there goes that part of the table... Assuming the Knight blows up the Stompa, there's a good chance the Stompa still explodes close enough to the Knight to wreck it, which will cause it to stumble somewhere and explode as well. Multiple Knights? That's just multiple explosions.

It'd be like watching a 2nd edition match with exploding ammo and flipping tanks all over again...

I like it!

Knights and Escalation units were allowed at Throne of Skulls, 4 Knights don't hold a candle to a Transcendant C'tan with a small Necron flyer force behind it.

 phantommaster wrote:
Knights and Escalation units were allowed at Throne of Skulls, 4 Knights don't hold a candle to a Transcendant C'tan with a small Necron flyer force behind it.

The number of things that can hold a candle to a Transcendant C'tan can be counted with your hands.

I'm pretty sure the only unit that is even moderately effective against a Transcendent C'Tan is grav cannon Centurions. Well besides super heavies with D weapons.

Guardians, dire avengers, wave serpents, missilesides, there is a bit that can effectively shoot at C'Tan and hurt him.

As for his flyer buddies forget it.

 Arbiter wrote:
Guardians, dire avengers, wave serpents, missilesides, there is a bit that can effectively shoot at C'Tan and hurt him.

As for his flyer buddies forget it.

You have to get close enough. And a "properly equipped" Transcendent C'tan will have an Apocalytic Mega-Blast that will just destroy Eldar infantry, 6D6 S6 AP3 shots to throw into something else, and if you do get close, he'll slide through you do an attack that the Wave Serpent's shields can't stop.

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
Guardians, dire avengers, wave serpents, missilesides, there is a bit that can effectively shoot at C'Tan and hurt him.

As for his flyer buddies forget it.

You have to get close enough. And a "properly equipped" Transcendent C'tan will have an Apocalytic Mega-Blast that will just destroy Eldar infantry, 6D6 S6 AP3 shots to throw into something else, and if you do get close, he'll slide through you do an attack that the Wave Serpent's shields can't stop.

This actually makes me want to play a Transcendent C'tan.

SJ

 jeffersonian000 wrote:

 ErikSetzer wrote:

 Arbiter wrote:
Guardians, dire avengers, wave serpents, missilesides, there is a bit that can effectively shoot at C'Tan and hurt him.

As for his flyer buddies forget it.

You have to get close enough. And a "properly equipped" Transcendent C'tan will have an Apocalytic Mega-Blast that will just destroy Eldar infantry, 6D6 S6 AP3 shots to throw into something else, and if you do get close, he'll slide through you do an attack that the Wave Serpent's shields can't stop.

This actually makes me want to play a Transcendent C'tan.

SJ

With Unbound, the army I've been threatening people with is a "C'tan Superfriends" list: 2000 points with two Transcendent C'tan and a C'tan Shard. A total laugh riot.