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On the Strenght D table, a seriously wounded result says "the model loses D3+1 wounds" and deathblow result says: "the model loses D6+6 wounds"...

If these wounds are put onto a large infantry unit, ork boyz for instance, and all four attacks hit, can the maximum number of boys slain be 4 because it says "model" or could you kill more than 4 boyz with the multiple wounds caused. Since it says "the model" are the wounds only allocated to one model or is it like any other melee or shooting and the additional wounds spill over to other models? Three serious wounds are rolled and one deathblow, and a total of 19 wounds are rolled (9+3d3+1d6), are 4 boyz killed because only 4 were hit or are 19 killed due to the wound chart?

There's a dispute about this at my lgs.

If they are "attacks" in assault against individual models then yes, only the number of models that there are attacks can be killed.
A Librarian can't kill 5 models with 4 attacks even if he has a force weapon that causes instant death. A super heavy walker can't kill 5 models with 4 attacks even if each attack does multiple wounds.

No one gives two gaks about a knights attacks as it can wipe out units with it's stomp attack where every model even partially under the blasts can be removed.

We have no Idea.

Shooting is simple to follow the RAW; they are almost pretty much all Blasts or Templates so you know which models are hit.

Melee not so much. I personally feel that Melee should function like shooting allocating each hit to the models the same as you would wounds, then apply the D-table to each of those models.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:
We have no Idea.

Shooting is simple to follow the RAW; they are almost pretty much all Blasts or Templates so you know which models are hit.

Melee not so much. I personally feel that Melee should function like shooting allocating each hit to the models the same as you would wounds, then apply the D-table to each of those models.

Pretty much this. Allocate hits to the closest models, roll for each model, apply result, wait for Init Step 1 to remove the rest of the unit via Stomp.

SJ

It is resolved in the same wounds against Swarms are, the wound is multiplied after being allocated to the model, and any extra wounds are lost after the model is slain.

Here is another question that deals with Strength D weapons. In the same game that the OP posted, the Strength D wiped a riptide off the face of the planet with the Strength D however the riptide had a stimulant injector to give it Feel No Pain. How does Strength D (no saves of any kind) work with Feel No Pain? I ask because Feel No Pain says "When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound, it can make a special Feel No Pain roll to avoid being wounded (this is not a saving throw).". Going with this, shouldn't I be able to use a Feel No Pain roll against Strength since it isn't a saving throw?

 Lord Scythican wrote:
Here is another question that deals with Strength D weapons. In the same game that the OP posted, the Strength D wiped a riptide off the face of the planet with the Strength D however the riptide had a stimulant injector to give it Feel No Pain. How does Strength D (no saves of any kind) work with Feel No Pain? I ask because Feel No Pain says "When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound, it can make a special Feel No Pain roll to avoid being wounded (this is not a saving throw).". Going with this, shouldn't I be able to use a Feel No Pain roll against Strength since it isn't a saving throw?

You do not get Feel No Pain against D weapons. Its one of the special saves I believe that the D weapon profile states that a model does not get, along with Reanimation Protocols

"No saving throws of any kind are allowed against damage from a Destroyer weapon, including special rolls such as Feel No Pain or Necron Reanimation Protocols."

EDIT: Deathleaper'd

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It is resolved in the same wounds against Swarms are, the wound is multiplied after being allocated to the model, and any extra wounds are lost after the model is slain.

That is not true.

"To resolve a Destroyer weapon’s attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table below instead of rolling To Wound..." (IK Codex Digital Page 131.0)

So you roll on the table "instead of rolling To Wound"

And you allocate after To Wound rolls.

Huh, that's interesting. Still the results are worded in such a way that a single model loses X number of wounds, so the end result is the same.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 Lord Scythican wrote:
Here is another question that deals with Strength D weapons. In the same game that the OP posted, the Strength D wiped a riptide off the face of the planet with the Strength D however the riptide had a stimulant injector to give it Feel No Pain. How does Strength D (no saves of any kind) work with Feel No Pain? I ask because Feel No Pain says "When a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved Wound, it can make a special Feel No Pain roll to avoid being wounded (this is not a saving throw).". Going with this, shouldn't I be able to use a Feel No Pain roll against Strength since it isn't a saving throw?

You do not get Feel No Pain against D weapons. Its one of the special saves I believe that the D weapon profile states that a model does not get, along with Reanimation Protocols

Thanks!

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Huh, that's interesting. Still the results are worded in such a way that a single model loses X number of wounds, so the end result is the same.

Well what do you do with those other wounds in the wound pool then?

The counter-argument for DeathReaper's point is that the table that you roll on specifies that for each hit "the model" takes the wounds, not the unit.

Then would you have to specify which models you're making attacks against if you're in assault with a unit with multiple models?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
Then would you have to specify which models you're making attacks against if you're in assault with a unit with multiple models?

That is impossible. The rules do not allow for that to happen.

So all X number attacks would go against one model, because D weapons dont allocate wounds to the Unit, only models?

 DeathReaper wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It is resolved in the same wounds against Swarms are, the wound is multiplied after being allocated to the model, and any extra wounds are lost after the model is slain.

That is not true.

"To resolve a Destroyer weapon’s attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table below instead of rolling To Wound..." (IK Codex Digital Page 131.0)

So you roll on the table "instead of rolling To Wound"

And you allocate after To Wound rolls.

You allocate "d3+1 wounds" to a model. That model suffers d3+1 wounds. If it only has a single wound, there are no rules to return the d3 extra wounds to the wound pool and they're therefore lost.

The most common player FAQ I've seen works like this:
You roll to hit with knight against the unit
Player taking casualties allocates hits, starting with the closest model (same as wound allocation).
You then roll on the D table for each model that a hit was allocated to.

Note this is HIWPI, not RAW. RAW is shaky unless you can find a way to reconcile the sequence in the BRB with the "more specific" instruction in the Codex that describes wounding models. I would personally talk it over with your group or find a tournament FAQ you like and use that.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
Huh, that's interesting. Still the results are worded in such a way that a single model loses X number of wounds, so the end result is the same.

Well what do you do with those other wounds in the wound pool then?

There is no Wound Pool. That is a subsection of the Roll to Wound which is skipped by the D weapon rule.

RAW with D weapons is sketchy at best. Allocating hits to models usually works best. Then roll to see what those hits do.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It is resolved in the same wounds against Swarms are, the wound is multiplied after being allocated to the model, and any extra wounds are lost after the model is slain.

That is not true.

"To resolve a Destroyer weapon’s attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table below instead of rolling To Wound..." (IK Codex Digital Page 131.0)

So you roll on the table "instead of rolling To Wound"

And you allocate after To Wound rolls.

You allocate "d3+1 wounds" to a model. That model suffers d3+1 wounds. If it only has a single wound, there are no rules to return the d3 extra wounds to the wound pool and they're therefore lost.

Where in the rules does it say to "allocate "d3+1 wounds" to a model." I can not find that entry.

Fragile wrote:
There is no Wound Pool. That is a subsection of the Roll to Wound which is skipped by the D weapon rule.

Citation needed, I can not find where the wound pool is not populated as normal.

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
It is resolved in the same wounds against Swarms are, the wound is multiplied after being allocated to the model, and any extra wounds are lost after the model is slain.

That is not true.

"To resolve a Destroyer weapon’s attack, roll To Hit as you would for a standard attack. If the attack hits, roll on the table below instead of rolling To Wound..." (IK Codex Digital Page 131.0)

So you roll on the table "instead of rolling To Wound"

And you allocate after To Wound rolls.

You allocate "d3+1 wounds" to a model. That model suffers d3+1 wounds. If it only has a single wound, there are no rules to return the d3 extra wounds to the wound pool and they're therefore lost.

Where in the rules does it say to "allocate "d3+1 wounds" to a model." I can not find that entry.

Instead of rolling to wound, roll on the table.
You've rolled on the table - the table indicates individual, single models suffer those results.
You have literally no rules to stand on to populate a wound pool using wounds that a model must suffer - not a unit. Wounding a unit populates wound pools.

You populate the wound pool after rolling To Wound.

You roll on the table instead of rolling To Wound, and you see how many wounds are cause because of the table.

Why are you not letting the wound pool be populated as the rules dictate?

 DeathReaper wrote:
You populate the wound pool after rolling To Wound.

You roll on the table instead of rolling To Wound, and you see how many wounds are cause because of the table.

Why are you not letting the wound pool be populated as the rules dictate?

Because the D table requires wounding models.
The wound pool is demonstrably wounding the unit.
Therefore you cannot populate the wound pool using the results of the D table. You'd be wounding a unit with wounds that the rules require go to models.

edit: What you're saying is akin to a Perils wound using the wound pool and allocation rules. Simply has no basis in actual rules.

 DeathReaper wrote:
You populate the wound pool after rolling To Wound.

You roll on the table instead of rolling To Wound, and you see how many wounds are cause because of the table.

Why are you not letting the wound pool be populated as the rules dictate?

The destroyer weapon table only mentions wounding Models, not Units.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Citation needed, I can not find where the wound pool is not populated as normal.

Page 12. Shooting sequence. Roll to Wound. This step is explicitly skipped. What does this step include. Turn to page 14 and there is your Roll to Wound section which includes your Wound Pool.

Citation given.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
You populate the wound pool after rolling To Wound.

You roll on the table instead of rolling To Wound, and you see how many wounds are cause because of the table.

Why are you not letting the wound pool be populated as the rules dictate?

The destroyer weapon table only mentions wounding Models, not Units.

All a unit is is a collection of models...

"In Warhammer 40,000, we represent this by grouping models together into units." (3)

If you are rolling To Wound against a unit, you "compare the weapon's Strength characteristic with the target's Toughness characteristic using the To Wound chart." (14)

Units don't have toughness characteristics, so you are rolling To Wound against the models in the unit.

Fragile wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Citation needed, I can not find where the wound pool is not populated as normal.

Page 12. Shooting sequence. Roll to Wound. This step is explicitly skipped. What does this step include. Turn to page 14 and there is your Roll to Wound section which includes your Wound Pool.

Citation given.

So the D weapon can not harm any models with it because you skip populating the wound pool, and as such you can not allocate any wounds...

Or it works by populating the wound pool by using the chart instead of rolling To Wound.

Your way makes D weapons not function and can not be the correct way read that rule.

 DeathReaper wrote:
So the D weapon can not harm any models with it because you skip populating the wound pool, and as such you can not allocate any wounds...

Or it works by populating the wound pool by using the chart instead of rolling To Wound.

Your way makes D weapons not function and can not be the correct way read that rule.

No.
Your method is a literal houserule to make the D weapon work.
My method is a literal houserule to make the D weapon work.

It doesn't work as written. My method keeps closest to the D weapon rule of wounding models. Your method requires us to literally ignore the word models on the D weapon chart.

So let me get this right.

X model with D str assault weapon assaults unit of...5 lets say.
Initiave/pile in X model ends up in base contact with 3 models in Y unit.

Attacks happen, now does the model with the D weapon make an attack and hits, see if it kills the first model, then make subsequent attacks against that first model if it doesnt die, or the the next model in base contact if it does.

Or does the X model with D weapon make all attacks at the same time and upon hitting them all (or however many are hit), first model gets a d roll till it dies then moves on to the next model in base contact?

 WrentheFaceless wrote:
So let me get this right.

X model with D str assault weapon assaults unit of...5 lets say.
Initiave/pile in X model ends up in base contact with 3 models in Y unit.

Attacks happen, now does the model with the D weapon make an attack and hits, see if it kills the first model, then make subsequent attacks against that first model if it doesnt die, or the the next model in base contact if it does.

Or does the X model with D weapon make all attacks at the same time and upon hitting them all (or however many are hit), first model gets a d roll till it dies then moves on to the next model in base contact?

Neither. Roll attacks. For each hit scored, select a model that is in base to base contact and roll once on the Destroyer Weapon Damage table. Apply the result of each roll to a model until all hits are dealt or until no more models are left. If the model is removed before all hits are dealt, deal the next hit to another model in base contact, roll on the table, apply result, repeat until all hits are dealt. Easy, and matches well with hitting models under a blast marker with a D Weapon.

SJ

 DeathReaper wrote:


So the D weapon can not harm any models with it because you skip populating the wound pool, and as such you can not allocate any wounds...

Or it works by populating the wound pool by using the chart instead of rolling To Wound.

Your way makes D weapons not function and can not be the correct way read that rule.

Wounds are not "allocated" per se. The model that is hit " loses X wounds."