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The best Tau list of 6th, O'Vesastar, has been rendered massively illegal.

The second best Tau list of 6th, TauDar, has also been rendered massively illegal. (Yes, you can have Eldar units but not the important part, their psychics)

And the final nail, the most powerful lists in 7th will be MSU dedicated transport spam. You heard that correctly.

Why? Think about a Ravenwing army with 60 Tactical Marines in Rhinos that can infiltrate. After they combat squad that's 18 Objective Secured units in the midfield T1, backfield T2. And the overwhelming majority of missions will feature objectives.

The fact is, while Tau will remain a "good" shooting army, they do not excel at the most important thing in this edition, and therefore will continue their fall from their brief stay at the apex of the competitive scene.

Tau lists need to bring more markers than in 6th, preferably not in the form of Pathfinders.

A Bastion with Broadsides is fantastic, give them as many target locks as possible and take a buff commander.

That set up will shred most transports.

3 Broadsides average around 5 HP on av12 and with ignore cover you dont have to worry about Jink. So Chimeras/Serpents/Rhinos are pretty easily taken care of by Tau.

The bigger issue is see is things such as imperial knights. I'd recommend tau players to take more fusion than before.

The Shrike wrote:And the final nail, the most powerful lists in 7th will be MSU dedicated transport spam. You heard that correctly.

Why? Think about a Ravenwing army with 60 Tactical Marines in Rhinos that can infiltrate. After they combat squad that's 18 Objective Secured units in the midfield T1, backfield T2. And the overwhelming majority of missions will feature objectives.

The fact is, while Tau will remain a "good" shooting army, they do not excel at the most important thing in this edition, and therefore will continue their fall from their brief stay at the apex of the competitive scene.

I think you meant Raven Guard.
While MSU is interesting for Maelstrom of War, it dies easily to massed fire. And we do have fast stuff to grab objectives - Piranhas, Tetras and hovering Remoras. Even Devilfishes with Fire Warriors can be fast enought to grab stuff (12" move + 6" Flat-out. People inside non-zooming transports get objectives now)
What Tau shouldn't do now are static gunlines. We got fast skimmers, jet pack infantry (6" move, run, assault move), outflanking kroot... it isn't Eldar-levels of mobility, but it's better than many others.

LValx wrote:Tau lists need to bring more markers than in 6th, preferably not in the form of Pathfinders.

A Bastion with Broadsides is fantastic, give them as many target locks as possible and take a buff commander.

That set up will shred most transports.

3 Broadsides average around 5 HP on av12 and with ignore cover you dont have to worry about Jink. So Chimeras/Serpents/Rhinos are pretty easily taken care of by Tau.

The bigger issue is see is things such as imperial knights. I'd recommend tau players to take more fusion than before.

I've tried Broadsides inside a bastion... the enemy had 3 Crypteks with Voltaic Staff :(
But yes, I do think Fusion will have a comeback, now that MCs got some shaft and vehicles are more durable

Bubble wrap the bastion with kroot in order to protect from pods/deepstrikers/flyers. Usually works pretty well. Can also stick ethereal in there for the aura measured from bastion.

 LValx wrote:
Bubble wrap the bastion with kroot in order to protect from pods/deepstrikers/flyers. Usually works pretty well. Can also stick ethereal in there for the aura measured from bastion.

I had the ethereal, but not the kroot masses to bubble wrap it... still, the voltaic staff has 12". It's not easy to put so many kroots to fill such space without taking points from somewhere else that's more useful for your arm...
this works agains emp grenades, though.

20 kroot are cheap and with 2" coherency will block 12"

As good as Broadsides+Bastion+Buffmander is; it's a humongous points load for a single unit that can't by itself dominate a game. Investing 500+ points on a unit like that is not a recipe for victory. Broadsides by themselves with a few target locks are plenty; especially if taken with the Fire Support Cadre for Tank Hunters.

Generally speaking, I agree with the conclusions about more fusion and marker support.

Personally, I'm approaching this edition without concern for holding any ground. My lists will be designed to maximize firepower. I will play to table and failing that, anything can hold an objective in a fix.

Even Devilfishes with Fire Warriors can be fast enought to grab stuff (12" move + 6" Flat-out. People inside non-zooming transports get objectives now)

12" move 12" flat out btw. Skimmer adds 6" to that. And Fast Skimmers are 18" flat out. So piranhas got a little more valuable. If i bring them theyre usually my cockblocker unit that zips across the table to prevent an assault for a turn lol. Now they can grab objectives too, which im liking that idea.

Pretty much any unit the buffmander touches is going to be a 500pt sinkhole. Its actually cheaper in the broadsides because you can ignore the rerolling failed hits upgrade, since broadsides are twinlinked anyway and do you really need 6 BS5 twinlinked marker drones? lol. You can cut more costs if you remove the tankmander statline (iridium armor, shield gen, fnp) but now hes a prime target due to the buffs, and lacks the durability to survive things trying to clear those buffs from that unit. Or score warlord, in my case.

All my non-tau player friends cant seem to understand why i would "waste" a BS5 model for these buffs, when they tend to add ~100pts to his cost and he cant shoot. Yet every tau player i know swears by the buffmander in almost any unit being a far better option than a killing commander, unless you already got a buffmander. Ive ran 2 commanders many times and the 2nd one is usually a pseudo tankmander in a fusion bomb and shield drones...he has FNP and tanks anything that isnt AP2 or instant-death else he tosses it to the drones. Crisis suits, including commanders, are too easy to flatten to give a crap about the BS5 on commanders lol

Why are your only HQ options some type of crisis commander?

Sure Buffmander's and Mark'os are good but how about a good ol' Ethereal?

I was all for the Buffmander in an O'Vesastar list; and I still prefer him to Shadowsun in a Farsight bomb; but I think he's only worth the investment in a massive unit that can single-handedly dictate the game.

Honestly, the aspect I consider a hit is the decrease in power of our Railguns. The Railhead is now horribly ineffective even with Longstrike since you get ONE dice to pen about half of the time but only explode so rarely that you aren't really making up for how few shots you have to work with. Unless we get a Railgun buff, the Railhead is down in viability after an edition in which it was already below optimal without taking an expensive special character.

 The Shrike wrote:
As good as Broadsides+Bastion+Buffmander is; it's a humongous points load for a single unit that can't by itself dominate a game. Investing 500+ points on a unit like that is not a recipe for victory. Broadsides by themselves with a few target locks are plenty; especially if taken with the Fire Support Cadre for Tank Hunters.

Generally speaking, I agree with the conclusions about more fusion and marker support.

Personally, I'm approaching this edition without concern for holding any ground. My lists will be designed to maximize firepower. I will play to table and failing that, anything can hold an objective in a fix.

The Bastion with a comms relay is great. It helps you keep troops off/control reserves. The bastion is great. The Broadsides can be beat up by firepower, it protects them and also gives cover to units. You can jump shoot jump with Crisis/Riptides. With Tank Hunters/Ignores Cover and firing at 3 transports, youll do quite well. it averages 5 HP on av12, ~7 on AV11.

Tau with Farsight

Tau Commander - Puretide, MSS - 120
Etheral - 50

Riptide - HBC, Fusion, Interceptor, Advanced Targeting- 188
Riptide - HBC, Fusion, Interceptor, Advanced Targeting, Earth Caste Array - 218

20 Kroot - 20 Sniper Rounds - 140
20 Kroot - 120
11 Kroot - Hound - 65
11 Kroot - Hound - 65
3 Crisis Suit - 4 Fusion, 2 Target Lock, Flamer - 144
3 Crisis Suit - 2 Missile Pod, 2 Fusion, 2 Target Lock, 1 Drone Controller, 5 Marker Drones - 207

Skyray - 115
Skyray - 115
3 Broadsides - HYMP/SMS, 2 Target Lock, 1 Advanced Targeting - 208
Bastion - Comms - 95

The Bastion provides a nice spot for the Ethereal, his aura is measured from the building. The Broadsides can score an objective depending on placement. 2 Skyrays shores up Anti-air, you've got lots of troops and squads large enough to bubble wrap. There is a fair amount of melta, as I think imperial knights will be tough for Tau armies. With that list you could hypothetically kill ~3-4 serpents in a turn. 5 SMS makes blobs cry. As does ignore cover missile fire. While not as overwhelming as some shooting lists might be, it can pack a nice punch and has a lot of objective secured models. Advanced Targeting allows you to snipe xenos characters. Can mess up farseers, grimoire holders, guardsmen, etc.

I like the Redoubt Myself. Makes a nice solid wall to cockblock tanks while providing surivability to FWs and knocking the last HP off of flyers.

I don't think anyone mentioned it yet but the biggest gain we got from 7e is that everything is scoring. I mean our riptides are scoring! Sit that thing on an objective and it will take your opponent most of his firepower for a turn or two to remove it from the objective outside of close combat. Heck baby sit an objective with 3 missileside and I doubt anyone will try getting close to that unit!

Missilesides are Wyvern Bait. I've always viewed the Riptide as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y983TDjoglQ . Planting a riptide is great until it gets tar-pitted by infantry and gets contested.

Well once infantry units are within the assault range you have to make a choice. Leave the objective or take your chances. First of all they have to get close and will most likely eat a turn or two of shooting unless in assault vehicles. But my main point is they can score. That alone is a huge benefit in my perspective.

I've tried two Mark'O's to great sucesss.

Mobile markerlights (a.k.a. mobile scoring) is definetely very awesome! I've also found that BS5 missile drones afford a cheap way of addition tons of firepower.

Tbh unless it is a larger squad, investing in two weapon systems instead + a target lock gives me more options & firepower than a straight buffmander (given the changes in 7ed). Oh + the PEN chip is also very awesome but making a bound army is difficult, so I'm running a non-whacko unbound army.

Vineheart01 wrote:

Even Devilfishes with Fire Warriors can be fast enought to grab stuff (12" move + 6" Flat-out. People inside non-zooming transports get objectives now)

12" move 12" flat out btw. Skimmer adds 6" to that. And Fast Skimmers are 18" flat out. So piranhas got a little more valuable. If i bring them theyre usually my cockblocker unit that zips across the table to prevent an assault for a turn lol. Now they can grab objectives too, which im liking that idea.

I didn't find any rule giving +6" Flat Out for Skimmers. Even in 6th they only had 6" Flat Out...

Razerous wrote:I've tried two Mark'O's to great sucesss.

Mobile markerlights (a.k.a. mobile scoring) is definetely very awesome! I've also found that BS5 missile drones afford a cheap way of addition tons of firepower.

Missile Drones don't benefit from Drone Controller :/

Ventiscogreen wrote:
Missilesides are Wyvern Bait. I've always viewed the Riptide as https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y983TDjoglQ . Planting a riptide is great until it gets tar-pitted by infantry and gets contested.

Right, Missilesides in a Bastion are not. It means the opposing player has to allocate shots at your Bastion instead of your Skyrays/Riptides/Etc.

The bastion itself is scoring now.

I use ethereals too but what sane player makes an ethereal your warlord? one of the easiest HQs to clean up being T3 with no armor and only a 6+ FNP possibility and...while better than most tau....still crappy melee skills. No possible invul either, even a 6++

Commanders should always be your warlord. I dont even like having Shadowsun as my warlord because that T3 makes her way too easy to clean up, tho shes way tougher than an ethereal since she has the cover thing and a 3+ and 5++

On the skimmer flat out thing, i guess your right. Wonder where we got that from, the FLGS im at now isnt the only one ive been at that had skimmers flat out for 12" instead of 6" - yet youre right, even in 6th it doesnt mention skimmers getting any flat out bonus unless theyre also a fast vehicle.
Well, that puts a thorn in many players' tactics at my FLGS, including my own lol.

Why make a commander your warlord when you can make a Broadside Shas'vre your Warlord?

Uh, how the hell do you make a non-HQ unit your warlord?

*snip* Could you ref. that please - but if your right, many thanks because I've obviously been abusing that!
Edit: Yes read the rulebook. Much appreciate & face-palm.

Back to the drawing board.

Its under the drone controller rules. It states what drones benefit from it, which are gun drones, marker drones, and sniper drones. It doesnt say "All drones" and excludes Missile/Shielded Missile Drones on purpose.

That would easily make the current riptide QQ thread spams be talking about buffmanders + broadsides w/ missiledrone units instead. And that's quite a feat, since riptides seem to be widely regarded as the most broken unit in the game (which they arent. strong, yes, probably a little undercosted, yes, most broken hell no)

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Uh, how the hell do you make a non-HQ unit your warlord?

now any model with the Character type can become your warlord. If you don't have any Character model, any other can become your warlord.
So any 'vre suit or 'ui foot soldier can become your warlord. Kroot Shaper as well

Markers & Mobility.

Two key things in the new tau list.

They were always a key in tau lists, until the overly efficient HYMP nation attacked.

HYMP are literally the only thing we have that is highly immobile. Ive been known for throwing an Ethereal in this unit for leadership bonus, 6+FNP, and pseudo-mobility with Zephyr's Grace. Usually couple this with a firwarrior bubble to maximize his effect. Ive noticed that unless im against an assaulty army, my missilesides are usually JUST out of range of what i want to hit and a ~6" movement usually leaves them a sitting duck, so theyre firing snaps anyway might as well use Zephr's Grace!

Also the warlord comment. Reread the rules and realized they changed it more than i thought. It doesnt force you take highest leadership anymore and says nothing about IC trumping Characters for the job either. So i guess it is legal to have a broadside shas'vre as your warlord even in unbound lists.
Question is though....wtf would you do that for? lol, broadsides arent really that hard to kill and at least crisis suits can move quickly. 2+ armor vs 3+ isnt that big of a deal with most weapons penning said armors paste them anyway (barring plasma and a few choice special weapons you rarely see, but in general cause instant death if it pens 2+ armor)

In terms of mobility, it depends on if you can rely on an additional +2 markerlights on the targets your HYMP are firing into.

I agree, position of the Broadsides is key. It also helps massively if they are your only (or few of) immobile unit. Another point to consider is LOS, as that changes during the course of the game, the lack of mobility can be a challenge.

Edit: Are there any updated rules for the Tetra. What's the most recent source material? If I could ask; as they roughly 4 gun drones cost and are they still allowed to take targeting relays (+1bs?)

Area terrain isn't gone it just has a datasheet for each piece. For example pg 188 "models receive a 5+ regardless of whether or not they are obscured" so it sounds like the same old area terrain to me.

Pg 109 shows many examples of "area terrain"